This site is supported by the advertisements on it, please disable your AdBlocker so we can continue to provide you with the quality content you expect.

The January Window

Discussion in 'Transfer Forum' started by Dub13, Nov 6, 2015.

  1. Dub13

    Dub13
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2007
    Messages:
    21,096
    Likes Received:
    2,676
    I know Klopp does not want to talk about it at all but sure we can. I cant see us doing to much business this Jan and hope we don't if the value is not there. So what if anything would you like to see happen in Jan.?
     
  2. Garrett

    Garrett
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2007
    Messages:
    19,173
    Likes Received:
    1,640
    Hi Paul,

    The word "value" should be thrown out the window at this stage, when it comes to football. The amount of money in the PL in particular, is completely out of control and is going to remain that way for quite a while as a result of the likes of the Sky TV deal etc.

    That said, we've a few of choices:
    - Pay the going rate and if necessary, pay a little extra to compensate for not currently having CL football to offer top players
    - Keep buying kids and hope we get lucky once in a while (personally I'd rather we spent the money on Euromillions tickets as we'd have a similar chance of success imho)
    - Plod along and accept our faith as little more than a mid table team for years to come....

    I'm for buying....

    We need another top striker in my view, ultimately to replace Sturridge (and in the shorter term, to help compensate for the loss of Ings alongside the absence of Sturridge from injury etc). I'm sure yourself and some others here will have seen the recent disscussion on the Benteke thread etc. so I won't go back into it in detail. If we can get one in January, we should go all out to get him.

    Thereafter, a top class defender is needed. Whether he will partner Sakho, or even perhaps Skrtel I don't know, but we need someone very capable and also able to "manage" the defense, including our keeper.

    There's no two cents worth anyway.....
     
  3. redabbey

    redabbey
    Expand Collapse
    Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2008
    Messages:
    24,100
    Likes Received:
    5,172
    A noble objective Garrett, just one that I can't see happening with all the will in the world in January. 'Top' strikers don't change hands in this window and that is regardless of price.

    What team would want to sell a 'top' striker banging in the goals for them in the first half of the season? There have been exception's where clubs have been forced to sell players in this window but that has not always worked out well for the buying club.
     
  4. Garrett

    Garrett
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2007
    Messages:
    19,173
    Likes Received:
    1,640
    I take your point Lionel, but we need one so we should pull out all of the stops to try and bring one in imho. You'd never know what deal might be done, we might get lucky and find a club having dropped out of the CL early for example, or a club with a youngster who has stepped up quicker than expected, so they have a quality striker more than they thought they had this summer etc.... even if a particular striker is not initially for sale etc.
     
  5. dantheman23

    dantheman23
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2008
    Messages:
    3,165
    Likes Received:
    865
    I actually think we are in ok shape, if sakho or skrtel got an injury we would be under pressure though. They're won't be any decent strikers available in January so doubt we'll see any come in.
    I don't see us doing much business, maybe a wide player? We also need a proper left back .


    There's a lad playing in Turkey, markovic I think...... Might be worth a look....
     
  6. edcarroll02

    edcarroll02
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2007
    Messages:
    18,611
    Likes Received:
    4,503
    I don't think we'll buy a single player in January and I'm okay with that! We have a squad that is capable of challenging for fourth at the moment and if Klopp delivers that I'm sure we'll be shopping in a different bracket come summer time!
     
    Colm75 likes this.
  7. Garrett

    Garrett
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2007
    Messages:
    19,173
    Likes Received:
    1,640
    While we differ on the ability of our squad, I don't think it's fair to put the expectation on Klopp to deliver 4th this year, given he came in after a bad start to the season, has to get to know a squad he had nothing to do with recruiting etc. That said, I think absolutely all of us would be overjoyed if he did managed to get 4th....

    Obviously, when all is said and done, it's down to the owners and senior management to support Klopp in the transfer windows from now on, no more shopping in the bargain basement, otherwise bringing in Klopp is little more than a waist of time.
     
  8. edcarroll02

    edcarroll02
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2007
    Messages:
    18,611
    Likes Received:
    4,503
    Klopp was brought in because he did a fantastic job at Dortmund working off a limited budget! If you're expecting the owners to change their philosophy I think you'll end up disappointed!
     
  9. babbsnads

    babbsnads
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2010
    Messages:
    23,641
    Likes Received:
    8,986
    I reckon Klopp will get the same type of financial support as Rodgers did,ie. all money available.Can't really ask for more financial support than that.

    Allen 15m
    Lallana 23m
    Lovren 20m
    Markovic 20m
    Ballotelli 16m
    Benteke 32.5m
    Firmino 29m
    Hardly bargain basement pal and when you bring in one of the world's best coaches,it's probably expected for him to coach improvement in players,fairly imo,without being a waste of time before even a penny is spent.
     
    Colm75 likes this.
  10. dantheman23

    dantheman23
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2008
    Messages:
    3,165
    Likes Received:
    865

    How can we not finish top 4? Who'll finish above us? I don't get why some people see 4th as being a super achievement especially when one of the 4 are out of the race already.
     
  11. Garrett

    Garrett
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2007
    Messages:
    19,173
    Likes Received:
    1,640
    ... won't be any different to how I've felt during a fair part of their regime so far so ;)

    I appreciate the comment about how Klopp did with limited resources previously, but do keep in mind he bagged a quality striker to help him ... one could make a comparison to when BR had Suarez, in some respects.
     
  12. Garrett

    Garrett
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2007
    Messages:
    19,173
    Likes Received:
    1,640
    Eh, lets not forget where most of the cash came from to pay for that lot, Suarez and Sterling.... didn't someone post the net spend at something like £21m since the FSG lads landed ? ... I certainly do not accept that that was "all money available" during their term to date (unless you are using the word "available" in the context that the owners would not sanction anything more ?).

    Certainly, Klopp will be expected to improve players and thats not unreasonable mate. But he can't be expected to turn mid table players into CL regulars without some help from a couple of quality signings, can he (in all seriousness and in particular, when you look at whats happening in the PL with other squads) ?
     
  13. Garrett

    Garrett
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2007
    Messages:
    19,173
    Likes Received:
    1,640
    Firstly, the Chavs are only 13 points off 4th place with 26 games to go. Most teams could not close that gap, but we are not talking about most teams here - we're talking about the team that won the PL recently and have one of the best managers in Europe (whether you like him or not doesn't matter). I don't think its in any way wise to count them out yet despite the wishful thinking.

    Also, lets not forget some of the other clubs doing well this season.. Leicester and Hammers are both in the Top5 for example and can't be ignored as a result. Southampton and Spus are also on the edge of that leading pack.... do you think they will all drop off and we will overtake them all, thats some confidence in our lads, if you do mate ?

    Granted, I may be proven wrong about us and 4th, but I genuinely don't see it without a lot of ifs and buts happening (which I've spelt out in detail in another thread recently, so won't go back over in detail now), but really I just can't see it unless we happen to bring in some top talent in January perhaps.
     
  14. babbsnads

    babbsnads
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2010
    Messages:
    23,641
    Likes Received:
    8,986
    In reality Garrett you not accepting that the owners are reinvesting our money back into the club is in direct opposition to the actual facts,not opinions mate,facts.900k left over in the last published accounts and they haven't taken a penny out.Our next accounts might show a bigger profit,I don't know but everything that's happened up until this point suggests that profit will still be reinvested in the squad. To be honest pal I think you've been either chasing mythical money or advocating an irresponsible business model almost from day 1. In the context of this argument,our net spend is irrelevant unless you can show where money the club has earned in their time has gone anywhere but back into the club.They've been very up front about this from the start.They're not sugar daddies but would make the club self sustainable and allow the clubs profits to be used for the club,that's exactly what they've done. If you think they should put their hands into their own pockets again,fair enough,but just say that pal because we're going around the houses here a little bit.But if that is the case that would be you moving the goalposts mate,not them.
     
  15. babbsnads

    babbsnads
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2010
    Messages:
    23,641
    Likes Received:
    8,986
    Leicester,West Ham and Southampton will 100% not be in the top 5 at the end of the season.Id bet a months mortgage on that tomorrow and wouldnt lose a minutes sleep.If we finish below any of those teams then it's been a disastrous league season under any circumstances. If Chelsea get into the top 4 then I'll take my hat off to Mourinho because on the average of the last 5 years they need to average over 2.5 points per game for the rest of the season. I'm not convinced we'll come 4th either mate but I'd rate our chances higher than every other team I've mentioned in this post so far. Finish ahead of Spurs and Everton and I think we'll be 4th.
     
  16. ROCCO

    ROCCO
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2008
    Messages:
    26,295
    Likes Received:
    2,194
    Hard to disagree with above

    But Im getting quite confident we will finish top 4

    City
    Arsenal
    Liverpool
    United
     
  17. dantheman23

    dantheman23
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2008
    Messages:
    3,165
    Likes Received:
    865


    If we win today which I strongly fancy us to we will be nine points ahead of Chelsea with 1/3 of the season played. I do agree that they still have a chance of making top 4 but the way they are playing at the moment it's hard to see them going on a run of winning 6-7 games on the spin. They are capable of it with the players they have but form can't be turned on and off like a tap. They still have to travel to Spurs, Leicester, United (their next 3 aways), Palace, Arsenal, Southampton and Anfield. City, Everton and West Ham have already beaten them away from home.
    We have already gone to Stoke, Arsenal, Everton, United, Spurs and Chelsea and we are 7 points off 4th with a game in hand.
    Chelsea will turn their form around at some point whether under under mourinho or not but it won't happen over night and it doesn't look like it is going to happen soon.

    Leicester and West Ham will finish between 7th and 10th.

    Southampton are a decent side, their front 3 are very good, Tadic, Mané and Pelle. They won't be far off CL places but I don't see them finishing top 4.

    Spurs also decent enough but with the players they have I don't see them finishing top 4 either. Spurs have been the same as long as I can remember, nice footballers but when they need to put a peformance in and put their foot in where it hurts they won't. The players they have this season are the same.

    It's the most awful United team to watch I've ever seen, Moyes' team played nice football compared to them. They are still getting results though because they are well organised by a manager who has seen and done it all before. They may well spend a few bon in January and they will probably have enough to see them finish top 4.

    The main reason I see us finishing top 4 is because I think we have the players and a manager that the players want to win for. Klopp was and is one of the most sought after managers in the world. You can see the players love him and because of that they will get results for him.
    If we get Henderson back and keep either Benteke or Sturridge fit we will finish top 4. As I said we have most of the tougher away fixtures already done so if the Europa league doesn't take too much from the players and we can avoid any more major injuries I fancy us.
    The appointment of Klopp has got the buzz back and you can already see slight improvements in the way we play. I know we are in the honeymoon period at the moment and eventually the media who have Klopp built up to some sort of Messiah will want to knock him down but I don't think this will bother or phase Klopp.




    My guess at the finished table would be City-Arsenal-United- Liverpool- Spurs- Chelsea-Southampton-
     
    ROCCO likes this.
  18. Clerk

    Clerk
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2010
    Messages:
    4,095
    Likes Received:
    51
    it seems this thred has developed into whether we can come top 4. l think we have a chance but only because Chelsea have blown up so far. I agree with the above poster that says they won't write Chelsea off for top 4 but it's hard to come back from a run that they've had as we well know.

    I also agree with the other poster that says if we win today we are in a good position and indeed a win today would mean a very good start for Klopp but it would be so like Liverpool to f up today after the fantastic win last weekend. Hopefully we win, we need some momentum and have City away next.

    As for signings in January I expect Klopp to sign if he can get players he wants and l think FSG will back him in that. He must have an incredible knowledge around the German leagues so it will be very interesting.

    Been very impressd with Klopp all round so far. His CV is very impressive but like a lot were saying l think he's a great fit for the club. A couple of classic's out of him already, the "normal one" was classic and l like it.
     
  19. Garrett

    Garrett
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2007
    Messages:
    19,173
    Likes Received:
    1,640
    Reinvesting what is there already means very little, when you start with a low base and thats what they started with at LFC, thanks to G&H. Making noise about spending the net proceeds from the sale of Sturridge and Sterling for example, doesn't cut it if you want to get back into the CL on a regular basis, compete to win the PL etc. I won't go anywhere near what the proceeds were actually spent on, for now.....

    Okay, so you want to talk about financial facts, then lets....

    Fact - there is usually a massive difference in any business, between a profit or loss shown on a Profit & Loss account, as against the cash positon of the business. Ask any accountant if you don't believe me.

    Fact - they landed telling us that we could compete to buy anyone, but simply blew smoke up our arses while they got their claws into the club and subsequently made a massive (albeit paper) profit on the investment.

    Fact - if they wanted, then could inject cash into the business to fund additional players without breaking the likes of the FFP, through methods of equity investment or careful debt funding, carefully managed commercial deals such as selling the naming rights to the stand and more ... remember I'm not an expert in sports, so those who are can no doubt come up with even better methods than I might. (btw, before anyone mentions it, I don't care much about the FFP given what it's been shown to mean, to date.. a little short term pain, for long term gain is the worst that would happen, even if we were done for breaking the rules).

    Time will tell.... neither of us can predict the future, as I'm sure you agree.

    This is not personal mate, but the amount of people on this site that talk about finances and don't have the experience or expertise to back up their comments is massive. I'm not the worlds expert on all things, but I've over 20-years working in finance and related qualifactions to ride along side, so I beleive I know a bit about what I'm saying when it comes to talking about money.

    Suggesting that I am chasing mythical money or advocating an irresponsible business model is simply wrong... our owners are wealthy, the club has assets capable of generating further income and raising debt (in a prudent manner, just as other businesses all around the world do every day, to fund their expansion and growth).

    By telling us that we can compete to buy any player we want .. sure that was near the start, wasn't it ?

    By leading us to beleive we would compete with the elite teams in the PL and perhaps Europe ? ... were we not led to beleive that LFC would be great again, after they took charge (granted, they didn't set a time limit, so I guess if we win the PL in twenty years time, even just once, they can claim they achieved what they said they would do)

    By leading us down the garden path time and time again, letting us think / hope and beleive we were in for notable players but every time falling short.. either because Ian Ayre went home before the cut off time on Transfer Deadline Day, got on the wrong plane or the owners couldn't persuade players that living in Liverpool as multi millionaires is actually quite a fantastic existence for example ?

    The owners have not been entirely upfront as I see it, they have played the fans to suit their own personal objectives.... namely, make money. Look at the price they bought the club for and what it's worth now, I'd say they have done quite a good job to date, wouldn't you ?

    Just do me a favour and add the words "willing to be" between not & sugar in your sentence above and we're good here ;)

    Hardly rocket science, they cut the wage bill and did some decent sponsorship deals both in the UK and abroad... with a bit of wealth and financial support behind us, you and I could have done that too mate.

    Yes, I do think they should put their hands in their pockets, as part of bringing LFC back to the glory days. It's wrong that they should make such significant financial gain (granted, until they sell, they don't crystalise the gain) without putting investmet in. As owners of a sports club, the implied deal with the fans (who are their customers and give them their hard earned cash on a regular basis) is that they invest in playing staff, to compete and win significant competitions. In return, the owners get the benefit of increasing their wealth. I see it has having been a one way street to date....
     
  20. redabbey

    redabbey
    Expand Collapse
    Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2008
    Messages:
    24,100
    Likes Received:
    5,172
    Garrett, I think your being a bit condescending to us 'non-financial' experts who have no background in the business. It's almost like there will be no point in challenging you on any point from now on as posters like me don't have your experience.

    Just a point, I know you don't like Ian Ayre but the evening he went home early was a silly moment in the history of the LFC channel as they were broadcasting all night, they have since learned to leave those last night of the transfer window to Sky Sports. Much better if business is done before the last day of a transfer window.

    Since you have mentioned facts quite a bit I am interested in the story of Ian Ayre getting on the wrong plane. Looking forward to hearing this story as I've never heard about it before in relation to transfer business.

    In a different thread you posted in the midweek before Brendan Rodgers was sacked;

    Wonder how much you would guestimate the sacking and hiring has cost FSG?
     
    #20 redabbey, Nov 9, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2015

Share This Page