As I say, I honestly am not invested in GAA football at all so I am not really in any position to argue about it. I just think that very few people are not completely partisan to allow for a rational debate. If the government's 2040 plan isn't put into practice, the greater Dublin area will represent about half the population in 20 years time. As you rightly point out, this is as important for Dublin as anyone else but if you say anything you are just a bitter anti-Dub. So I am meh about it and it can stay where it is in terms of my sports priorities. Doesn't interest me enough to be too bothered.
I agree with your funding point, the fairest way to do it is per rata, based on population. For example, 100 people can play their underage on 1 GAA pitch, 1000 people will need 10+ GAA pitches. So I have no problem with funding underage, based on population. It's all logical in that sense. Regarding success going in cycles, I don't think it'll be that way anymore. Yes, in smaller counties, the skill and development and passion of players will come in circles. However there is a big difference between Dublin picking 15 players from 1.3 million people, and Leitrim picking 15 players from 30,000 people. Can success flow in circles now? Dublin's 'E team' would probably beat Leitrim. The problem with the ever growing population in Dublin means that in the future, Dublin will pick 15 players from a 2million population, and Leitrim will pick 15 players from 20,000. That means things won't swap around in a circle, they will continue, and possibly get worse for smaller counties. Kilkenny having success 10 years ago comes down to the interest and culture in the area. Don't forget that those players were born in the 70s and 80s, and played their underage long before the GAA provided massive funding to Dublin in 2005, so the two things can't be compared (past success vs financial funding). Sport is developing, and there is no reason we should stop funding within the GAA, to keep it going and to keep kids playing at underage. But when we're talking about success, is funding based on population the right solution if population is going to increase in one area, and decrease in another area? Can 20,000 people beat a county of 2,000,000 people? I doubt it.
There's a lot of talk about funding without going into the particulars of it. Are you saying that Cluxton for example is the best keeper in the country because he gets a more sophisticated gps? Because the gym he works out in has newer dumb bells, barbells and threadmachines? Because he's from Dublin and works in Dublin so travels less than other keepers then that's clearly why he is the best keeper in the country? The funding and the particulars of it has to quite clearly hold up against the natural talent, desire and work ethic of this current Dublin panel for me to budge on my opinion. Of which it doesn't.
just read the article there, no suprises at all that there's no mention of the Dublin senior hurlers or whether they are financially doped.
Smoke and mirrors mate. Very good ones at that with a lot of numbers, percentages and years thrown at you. Strip it all back, and he's just riding on the notority of it all. In a fortnight it'll be about Croke Park and advantages etc. Then comes the fume should they win another one and then it's all quiet on the home front. It's not aimed at Dublin he states but the mask slipped a long time ago.
The money teams spend on coaching,fitness,sports science,nutrition,sports medicine and everything else teams spend their money on either play a part in that teams success or it doesn't. To paraphrase MacKenna,the sports science industry alone is worth billions so the evidence says it does. Breaking it down to individual players or things like newer dumbbells and GPS trackers is one way of spinning it,but in elite level sports success often comes down to marginal gains. Individual instances make no tangible difference,its the culmination of all of those things that do and as Dublin fans keep pointing out,our All Ireland wins were all close run things and if the better GPS tracker for Cluxton doesn't matter,then why buy the better one? I cant tell you what Dublin spend their money on,but they do spend it and that I or anybody else cant give precise examples of where that money makes the difference doesn't change that obvious point that it does,unless Gaelic football is immune from the same fundamentals as any other sport that's about fitness and technique. It's also quite the coincidence that the most talented squad of players comes along right when you'd expect the results of a GAA plan to make Dublin better to come to fruition.
I cant tell you where it goes in detail myself either. If I were a club man I'd maybe hazard a guess into the coaching of grass roots on both codes and the facilities to back it up. Id like to think so anyway. Sports science, bio metrics, nutrition etc, are you saying Mayo, Kerry, Galway and Cork going by their funding numbers dont have access to these services? There's a picture being painted here that Dublin are Ivan Drago and poor Rocky (Mayo) only get to run and up and down Croagh Patrick in their bare feet. Now thats a spin. Exactly the point I made originally with regards to coincidence. A long term goal and plan executed extremely well. I'd liken it to Spain's golden generation. Thankfully they weren't split into 2 or begrudged much. Not holding up to those standards these days either.
Lads there is alot of inaccurate information been stated. I've coached for 30 years in Dublin with 10 of them as a development squad coach. I do it for the love of the game much like all the volunteers in Dublin GAA many who are originally from the country. You can have all the money you want but if you aren't organised and don't have a plan you will be f*cked. We are very lucky in Dublin that the GAA is fabric to society in a lot of areas its engrained. The money spent on sports science etc.. comes from sponsors. Sure Mayo & Kerry are essentially sponsored from New York. The money afforded to Dublin by central council since the early 2000s was to increase playing numbers in the capital. Its most definitely achieved the goal but without organisation the numbers would have subsided. The club GPO's are only paid half by the DCB. Clubs have to pay for the other half of their salary. People need to get over it . This is a golden generation of players who are so player driven holding up their own standard and values within the suqad. Possibly the greatest team ever and won't last beyond another 3-4 years if even that. Dublin were 7-8 ahead of most counties when implementing the development squad model so this is why these players are here. Kerry will soon dominate again as we are still winning most U14, U15 & U16 national inter-county competitions along with 5 minors in a row.
To be fair mate,I think I've been clear what I'm saying,and with all due respect I think its getting lost in over defensive reactions and whataboutery. Me saying all those things are expensive and important doesn't mean I'm saying Dublin spend more on those things than anybody else,for all I know Mayo or Cork or whoever spend more on those things than Dublin.It's not about specifics because I haven't got a clue about the specifics. It's ludicrous to me that anybody would argue that having a bigger budget isn't an advantage for any county team and I'm not even sure that anybody is,but there's been a lot of whataboutery and deflection to avoid admitting whats a very basic fact. Not one person has challenged the financial figures in the article or tried to contextualise them in a different way. If those figures are correct then it's not even up for debate,Dublin are being given a financial advantage by the GAA. Spain's golden generation was helped with the funding needed to achieve that type of success too,but I don't think Spanish supporters are insecure about that fact.
Is there a script somewhere for Dublin fans that tells them how to avoid acknowledging more money is an advantage? Kind of like the ones political parties circulate to their members?
Are they at an advantage due to increase of funding yet you dont know in detail how that funding is spent? You haven't made yourself clear babbs so no it's not to be fair. You're saying nobodies challenged some one elses opinion. Its clear what I think of his opinion I would say all be it in a defensive manor giving the fact I am actually a Dublin football supporter. I've told you it's my opinion, with or without the whataboutery, that this team is where they are due to a manager and a set of players at the very top of their game. You, or I, the McKennas or Hill 16 dont get to be proved right until this nucleus of players and manager retire from inter county football. Only then will we see about financial doping or the fact this team has been begrudged to the high heavens. Thats always been the case even in the days when they weren't super human though. Maybe I am insecure. Maybe so are you.
Does the current domination of Kerry under age and minor reminise anything of what Dublin did back in early noughties? Would be interesting to see. Would it be fair to say Kerry's current senior team should be further in their development given the length of success of the minors? It seems like theirs still a bit to go. Maybe I'm just impatient.
I didn't say nobody has challenged his opinion,I said nobody has challenged the facts he layed out.If you don't think I've been clear then fair enough,I tried to be and I think your opinion of Mackenna hindered you on that score,but if you did understand my point you would understand you're engaging in whataboutery. I'm not trying to diminish the outstanding work,intelligent planning,the discipline and desire that a hugely talented group have put in to become an exceptional team so any arguments pointing these things out is against arguments I haven't made. As for me being insecure,I have no problem with Dublin being succesful and I'm making the point that having more money is an advantage in sport,an opinion I'm very secure in.
Do you at least accept that Dublin have received a vastly disproportionate amount of central funding? The 10 year development figure I've seen is 18 million to Dublin with cork next on the list at less than 2 million. Forgetting everything else that's going to piss people off massively, you've got the best team, with the biggest selection panel getting the Lions share of the resources to pull further away from the pack. I haven't seen anyone say this Dublin team isn't a generational talent, they're remarkable footballers and athletes, they dedicate themselves to their sport and have absolutely reaped the reward of their hard work and I don't begrudge them anything they've earned. Dublin have taken what they were given and created a fantastic structure that will provide talent for teams long down the road. The problem is not with Dublin GAA but with the GAA themselves, they're financially backing Dublin to a level miles above every county. They've already got the benefit of playing most every game at home (please don't) and the county has the most opportunities for players from all over the country in terms of jobs. There's no need for the GAA to financially prop them up.
I think what you will find is that a lot of people outside of Dublin say the exact same things though, it’s not just Dublin Supporters. A lot of people involved in grass roots in Monaghan for instance have no issues with the Dublin team winning, they can see its commitment and good management. Those who have a passing interest and turn up for championship games are the ones you hear talking about Dublin sponsorship and tv money winning them All Ireland. Probably based on the articles like McKennas. Personally I think the main problem is not Dublin’s dominance across the 32 counties, it’s their stroll through Leinster year after year that is the problem. Once the championship structure is changed and better teams play each other more often like the league, I don’t think they will seem as dominant. Hopefully anyway
If you say there's no issue with the disproportionate level of funding Dublin recieve then I'll take your word for it pal. But I still think its an advantage and there's an issue about fairness toat least be considered.
Genuinely, I think you are trying to diminish it mate. The original point you were making was how supporters get defensive regardless of facts, well sure I'm your case in point. If indeed they are facts, and we all know facts, stats and figures can be brought up to suit anyone's agenda of which he clearly does have then who is right and who is wrong? You've decided its got be black or white going by some elses views while admitting your coming from the grey yourself. I can only give my opinion, it's clearly a bias one that this team has won its trophies on the back of hard work and not a leg up. A member with far more knowledge of grass roots has just said as much to be fair. You call it ludicrous that I can't say that this team is where they are because of disproportionate funding. Thats your opinion.
This is from the GAA's annual accounts. I remember he was pulled up on his figures before and didn't respond to anyone. These are the 2018 results as well, so I've no idea why he's still referencing ones from 2016.
You'd wonder how much of each counties pot gets divided between both codes. Are dual code counties at an unfair advantage?