Brexit

Of course he's not wrong but without the underlying problems in the first place they wouldn't be able to create this fear in people. I 100% believe that without the opening of the borders of Europe to millions of refugees in the past 12 months that this Brexit debate would have sailed swiftly by with a vote to stay swinging a large majority but people are very on edge at the moment and savvy politicians are playing on this fear to further their own ends. It's easy to identify the end result of this but the far more complicated task is to go further back and address what has happened that has allowed people to become so disillusioned with what is going on that they are so easy to manipulate into following these lunatics.

Does it make it right, no of course not but you can't dismiss the outcome of something without identifying the causes. If they have left a majority of their population to feeling so abandoned by their own Government that they would rather follow snake oil salesmen than the elected then the Government are clearly the ones who have failed. For what it's worth I truly hope that the UK doesn't not vote to leave the EU but I hope that it serves as a wake-up call that the EU is becoming very unpopular in a lot of countries and they need to find a way to address that fast because this whole thing could come tumbling down very soon if they don't.

 

So what's the solution,leave masses of people to die or live in hell on earth and give in to Islamaphobia to stop the rise of the fascist right? Surely we'd just be fast tracking their agenda.There's a lot of problems in Europe but there's no way of avoiding underlying problems that these people can take advantage of to scaremonger.Maybe the refugee crisis has created an environment that will help Brexit,but for it comes to helping refugees or keeping Britain in the EU,it's not much of a contest in my eyes.

 

Suffice it to say there was no solution that was going to please everyone but the true consequences of this mass immigration will only reveal themselves in the next 15-20 years. Sweden and other countries which have usually had open borders have had to shut up shop after realising that there was no way they could cope with the numbers that were making their way to their borders because they physically couldn't look after them and are struggling with ghetto's created by immigration in their cities, they tried to deport 80K who failed their refugee application process this year but 70% of them just disappeared into oblivion before they could be deported. The EU want the UK to take 90K asylum seekers a year, it's a scarcely believable number.

Fixing the issues in all of these countries where the come from is also practically impossible, immigrants are coming from all over North Africa and the Middle East, travelling without much documentation and encouraging more and more people to do this is only playing into the hands of traffickers and others who are exploiting desperate people and doing nothing to try and alleviate the problems in their home countries.

Do I have the answer, no of course I don't but Europe is on the brink of falling apart on this issue and is creating a hard right that hasn't been seen in a very long time most of whom feel betrayed by their Governments. Brexit could yet be seen as the tip of the iceberg on this one.

 

If they leave I think it will be a disaster for them. They will have to negotiate new deals with EU members, it's not in the EU's interest to have them come out of this positively. If they do then countries will be queuing up to follow them. They will be made an example off. Gut feeling is the out camp won't get numbers out to vote.

 

Whether we like it or not, their exit may hit us hard and force us to consider the same course of action. The complications of being an island without any decent trade transportation connection with the rest of the EU places Ireland at peril. Our huge level of exports to the UK will continue but will be infinitely more tedious with them out.
A leave vote is a game changer for us as well. (there are potential positives but imo they are few and far between)

 

If they leave, can they return? Is there a limited time they must remain out for? Can they have another vote in a few years?

 

My understanding is that there will be a transition period of up to 10 years. Never say never but I cannot see another vote for 30 years or so.

 

I think Greece may agitate an exit next.

 

Yes I think the EU in/out vote will not be repeated. You could say that Europe may be happier without UK but the EU would take a departure by UK as a one way street.

Out of EU, who knows if Scotland or Wales break away or even in hushed tones, NI. But pure speculation on my part on that one.

 

Out of interest, whats the thinking around here about us staying in the EU, if the UK leaves ?

... do you guys think we should stay in regardless, or have a vote to see if Ireland should remain in, assuming the UK leaves ?

Obviously, the UK is a very important trading partner for us, helped bail us out when we needed internationa loans (and I think, at cheaper loan rates than the EU charged us at the time of the bail out) etc.

 

If we follow the UK out of the EU we might as well join the UK. We have a lot to lose outside the EU

 

Without European grants and support we get from EU, we would be a third world country

 

We will see a vote for a United Ireland before we will see Ireland to leave the EU. The north has far more to lose from leaving Europe than London or or other well off English cities. Towns like Belfast and Liverpool have benefitted massively from Europe and been resourced and supported to redevelop the cities in ways that the UK haven't and won't in the future. If Britain leaves the North will look to get back in IMO.

 

Does anyone know the level of capital funding we get from EU?

I know in Transport it is zero. No more big shiny EU funded signs around these days.

What about levy payments to farming etc.?

 

A lot of railway infrastructure was funded by the EU.

 

I've a pain in my tits with the idea that all opinions deserve respect and the same opportunity as everybody else to air those views in the name of "balance". Farage is fuckin everywhere and even has the balls to play the victim this morning.It's as bad in this country,a complaint was upheld against the Ray Darcy show for not giving balance in a segment where Graham Linehan and his wife shared their tragic experience dealing with Fatal Foetal Abnormality,led by those Iona institute cranks.Them of all people to complain about balance,the amount of opportunities they're given to spread their shite is ridiculously disproportionate.Too many mistake everybody having a right to an opinion with everybody having a right to have that opinion respected.Had an exchange on Twitter with a guy who reckoned anybody who thought his view about homosexuality being immoral was bigoted,were themselves bigots because he's a Christian.That's where we're at,people hide behind all different kinds of wank to defend their views and then play the victim when they're called on it...Fuck Off.