This site is supported by the advertisements on it, please disable your AdBlocker so we can continue to provide you with the quality content you expect.

Brexit

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by Dub13, Apr 11, 2016.

  1. Dub13

    Dub13
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2007
    Messages:
    19,550
    Likes Received:
    1,787
    I think we could do with a thread on this as its heating up.

    I was just reading about our border. While there has been a lot of debate over whether Border controls would have to be reintroduced, the attitude of UK politicians seems to likely settle the question:

     
    Garrett likes this.
  2. mayokev

    mayokev
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2007
    Messages:
    257
    Likes Received:
    29
    I still think it will go the way of the Scottish independence vote. A close vote but they will stay in.
     
  3. edcarroll02

    edcarroll02
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2007
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    2,505
    I dislike the scaremongering that is going on from both sides, if that's the best they can do to try and persuade people to vote to stay in Europe then they've already lost in my mind. There was a scandalous amount of fear circulated during the Scottish independence vote and it seems we're going the same way on this.
     
  4. Dub13

    Dub13
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2007
    Messages:
    19,550
    Likes Received:
    1,787
    There is extreme fear with regards to immigration in the UK at the moment. Terrorism is a major consideration. There is also strong anti-Tory sentiment (although they were voted in as a majority again!) and I think the "not sures" who are not sure which way to vote will vote to leave as it will mean Cameron will have to step down.

    If there's another terror attack during the Euros in France, which is extremely likely, then they are as good as gone.
     
  5. redabbey

    redabbey
    Expand Collapse
    Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2008
    Messages:
    23,105
    Likes Received:
    4,090
    Was an interesting contrast in NI on this in a BBC programme shown recently. The fisherman who fished at sea all wanted out. Yet the food companies who processed the caught fish all wanted in as without an open job market they could not get sufficient staff.
     
  6. Garrett

    Garrett
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2007
    Messages:
    18,250
    Likes Received:
    1,416
    Hi,

    Personally, I'm pro Europe so hope they stay in as it would be a better place with all of the European countries fully committed to it (yes, I appreciate that some of the Scandanavians are only partially in etc. also and I'm including them in what I'm saying here).

    There's a lot of arguements for and against them remaining as part of the EU, but the key thing I hope that the British remember when it comes to the day they are voting is this - there are no guarantees as to what may happen, if they leave the EU. There are no guarantees with regards to whether the EU may decide to leave certain trade or travel restrictions in place, what the situation will be regarding military issues etc. etc.

    A lot of the things that the "we want out" campaign are saying are all based on nothing more than guesses, or what they would like to see happen.

    Ultimately, no one can see into the future and with that in mind, I'd rather be part of a larger stronger union of countries, than out on my own geographically surrounded by those within the EU.

    I actually think that the EU would be better, if the UK was more pro-Europe and participated more actively in running the EU. At the moment, it's often the Germans and French calling the shots, but the UK is strong and influential so could be come the third party here if it took a different approach. I'd have thought this would appeal to the British, but perhaps I'm wrong.
     
  7. GaryMc

    GaryMc
    Expand Collapse
    Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2007
    Messages:
    20,187
    Likes Received:
    2,714
    As someone who grew up along the border, it would be very strange to see checks go back up. Doubtful it would be manned by the Army, however any type of border checks will bring back a lot of bad memories.

    For that reason alone, I hope they stay in as it could give dissedents the chance to get more people behind their cause.
     
  8. Garrett

    Garrett
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2007
    Messages:
    18,250
    Likes Received:
    1,416
    Sadly, a genuine concern.

    Another related concern, is if Britain exits and Trump gets into power in the US (which looks possible). The US won't be long about going to war with someone and will most likely drag the UK in with it (without the EU to help talk sense into them and keep them out of it). That potential risk also has an impact on Ireland, given our close proxmimity to the UK.
     
  9. redabbey

    redabbey
    Expand Collapse
    Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2008
    Messages:
    23,105
    Likes Received:
    4,090
  10. elvis

    elvis
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Messages:
    20,844
    Likes Received:
    658
    He needs to sort the font out on his blog!
     
  11. Dub13

    Dub13
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2007
    Messages:
    19,550
    Likes Received:
    1,787
    Looks to me like our European overlords are terrified not of Britain leaving Europe, but if Britain leave Europe and it is a resounding success.
     
  12. diceyreilly

    diceyreilly
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2008
    Messages:
    3,161
    Likes Received:
    137
    Will we get Duty Free ciggy n Whiskey when flying to Britian if they do leave.
     
    dantheman23 likes this.
  13. vodkacolly

    vodkacolly
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2007
    Messages:
    5,900
    Likes Received:
    453
    Richard Dawkins has a point:
    "It is an outrage that people as ignorant as me are being asked to vote. This is a complicated matter of economics, politics, history, and we live in a representative democracy not a plebiscite democracy. You could make a case for having plebiscites on certain issues – I could imagine somebody arguing for one on fox hunting, for example – but not on something as involved as the European Union. This should be a matter for parliament.”
     
  14. Dub13

    Dub13
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2007
    Messages:
    19,550
    Likes Received:
    1,787
    From what I have been told by a friend who works in London, he has friends working in the "remain" campaign and they are not too positive about their success.

    The OUT campaign is very daily express reader type driven it seems. Foreigners are bad. Close the borders and make Britain GREAT again, for the Queen gawlav'er etc etc etc
     
  15. Dub13

    Dub13
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2007
    Messages:
    19,550
    Likes Received:
    1,787
    Lets be honest, many people who'll vote to leave will do so to keep brown people out of the country, so economics is hardly a priority for them.
     
  16. honald_tdb

    honald_tdb
    Expand Collapse
    Subscriber

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
    Messages:
    2,953
    Likes Received:
    547
    Not looking good for Cameron et al.

    Farage is some tulip but like Trump, people think he's a great fella. (of course, they know what he really stands for.)
     
  17. Liverpool-law

    Liverpool-law
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2007
    Messages:
    6,290
    Likes Received:
    1,245
    A German professor made a great point when explaining some of the causes of the rise of the far right in Germany, but it applies to Trump, Farage and every other right wing bordering on fascist cause. He said that one of their major ways of operating is to simplify, boil everything down to black and white, allow for no nuance or taking circumstances into account. Very quickly, your message is the only right message, everyone else is wrong. Shout everyone else down and boil it down to anger and sorting things out. This is how the direction is the same as the nazi party rose to prominence, tell the uneducated it is very simple, it is all the jews/europe's/muslims fault and we can fix it.
     
    babbsnads likes this.
  18. edcarroll02

    edcarroll02
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2007
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    2,505
    What he is saying is in itself hypocritical and ironic to the extreme - he's basically doing the same thing himself to try and vilify anyone who doesn't share his Utopian view on liberal society. I have as little time for those on the left who dismiss everything from the right as if they are the only ones that can pontificate on any matter and their opinion is always unquestionably correct.

    My opinion is that we have become a nation/continent which has become so embedded in political correctness and pandering to every minority cause that it has allowed these extremists on the right wing to drive a wedge between people. Of course it's easier to just blame the right for being racist without ever looking at the underlying reasons for it.

    Merkel decided to unilatterally open the borders of Europe to millions of Muslim refugees (mostly young men) at a time when tensions across Europe were already running high due to the growing threat of terrorism. In 20 years time we may look back at that decision and see it as the moment when the European project effectively dissolved itself and the only ones that are to blame are the ones who made this decision without ever really thinking it through. I just hope that we haven't opened a can of worms that will effectively prove impossible to close again but only time will tell if that turns out to be the case.
     
  19. babbsnads

    babbsnads
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2010
    Messages:
    14,433
    Likes Received:
    3,613
    He's not wrong though Ed,just because there's people on the left who operate using similar tactics doesn't change the fact that it is what's happening from the most prominent on the right.Look at Trumps behaviour,look at the tories behaviour in the London mayoral race,look at Farage and Johnson and Gove's behaviour in the Brexit debate,it's disgusting and highly dangerous.They're openly promoting hate through fear and not because it's necessarily what they believe (Johnson was promoting remain as recently as this year)but for personal political gain and it's extremely foolish to put power in these mens hands.
     
  20. Pimboli

    Pimboli
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2007
    Messages:
    4,585
    Likes Received:
    123
    There is no black and white in the world, everyone lives in the grey, even do I do agree that political correctness has gone overboard and people seem to be searching for a cause to claim offence rather than be offended. Trump wants to ban muslim's coming to the US but seemingly sidestepped Obama's point that a number of the muslims that have been involved in the shooings in the US are US born and raised, are American born muslims any less likely to be terrorists than foreign born ones, does he advocate internment camps again along with his Mexican wall he's going to make the Mexicans pay for?

    I don't have a problem with Merkel allowing millions of refuges coming into Europe, they are going to come in anyway, if there are terrorists within them again they would come anyway but at least they are documented to some degree now and there is at least a chance of them being tracked.

    You cant abandon humanity or a particular race or religion because there are shitebags within them, there are shitebags everywhere.

    What that professor is saying isn't wrong, and Trumps is the perfect example, he speaks in soundbites, his approach has been one of fear and to makes things so simple, so whitewashed, the masses just buy it as its what they want to hear. 'I'll take care of ISIS' yeah sure you will and probably start WW3 in the process. Trumps proof he can solve the economic crisis, say 'I'm a Billionaire, I know what I'm doing' (just don't mention the bankruptcy). His approach to politics is practically the same as Tyrion in Game of Thrones 'I drink, and I know things'
     
    babbsnads and Liverpool-law like this.

Share This Page