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Discussion in 'Player Performances' started by Ron1892, Dec 27, 2017.
Messi wins, which he should do every year in fairness.
I know. People talking like it was Giggs winning player of the year.
Messi scored another 50+ goals, double winner, scored in quarters and semis of European Cup... best of luck to him and his taxman
Victim of his own success in truth! He's made the superhuman mundane
Thought Virgil deserved it for the incredible season he had and the incredible influence he had on the European champions. Messi is the best player in history but for me Virgil was the best last year. Hopefully he gets it in 2020.
Ian Rush always seems to get these gigs. Allison as we know can't play so no big deal there, but even if he was eligible I would not have had a problem with him travelling. VVD had to be there too, with the result tonight I think he will be determined to provide a better assist than last season for Origi's goal on Wednesday night.
That assist was a highlight of last season enjoyed seeing it over and over today
It's a travesty IMO.. yes messi is a sublime player BUT
you'll not have a defensive player win it anytime soon when VVD didnt win it after the massive influential change he made on his new team which also led to said team winning the European cup !! C'mon, I mean FFS WHAT more would a defender have to do to win it?!!
Defending is as much an art as attacking especially considering a mistake at defenders end can be game ending...
If Messi does his stuff in any given year then it's not possible for a CB to better than him at football in that given year. Ronaldo could do it with his incredible numbers,suarez did it one year and didn't win the award but individualism lends itself to attacking far more than it does defending and when you've the best player who's ever played football on his game then only the flaws in the voting system will see a defender win it because he won't have been the best player in the world that year.
Van Dijk clearly deserved it fuck sake!
And this Messi being the best player in history is a load of bollocks.
Never won a thing with Argentina and never left his comfort zone with Barca!
You're not trying to insinuate Ronaldo is the best by any chance?
Great start by Mourinho at Spurs
George Best won fcuk all with Norn Ireland and quit Utd at 27 so that means he can't be classed in that bracket so if that is the criteria
Fair points. It's like those people who claim Matt Le Tissier was better than Andy Dibble when he never left his comfort zone at Southampton while Dibble played at about 20 different clubs. Idiots.
And then you've those who think Kenny Dalglish was better than Angelo Charisteas when Dalglish never even qualified for the Euros with Scotland while Charisteas scored the winner in the final. Dopes.
Let's all just accept that Paul Pogba who left his home at a young age to go to England,then left England to go to Italy,then left his comfort zone at Juve to go back to United,winning trophies in Italy and England as well as the world cup is better than Steven Gerrard was and get away from this stupid mentality of judging players based on how good they are at football.
If you're gonna get robbed, get robbed by the greatest player of all time in fairness. Virgil even gets robbed like a Rolls Royce.
Anybody upset that Van Dijk didn't win it should take some consolation in how much it will be killing Ronaldo that Messi has the record now. He knows he doesn't have another one in him. Van Dijk made a joke about him and his sister went on a rant about it on instagram. It warms my heart.
Aveiro's post, translated from Portuguese by Metro , read: "Now, dear Virgil, where you are going, Cristiano Ronaldo has gone and has come a thousand times. You see, my dear Virgil, that Cristiano Ronaldo was a tri-champion in the country where you have been playing for years and you still haven’t got your hand in the can.
"Cristiano Ronaldo was even the best player and best scorer in the country where you play Virgil. By the way, I was even younger than you.
"Then, dear Virgil, Cristiano Ronaldo went to other places and became the greatest player in the history of a clubezito.
I know it was translated by a 3rd party but for me this looks like Ronaldo wrote it down and told his sister to post it so he wouldn't come across as the sore loser he obviously is.
I agree with everything else bar that Babbs.
Probably for another thread but not even the best Argentinian to play football
Maradona for me all day long. Messi & George next. Then Ronaldo & Cruyff.
I can't imagine there's any way that you could realistically compare Maradonna to Messi fairly. If you look at numbers alone for goals and assists then Messi would be miles ahead but the game has changed so much in the interim that it's impossible to say fairly that Maradonna couldn't post them in the current era surrounded by the calibre of players that Messi is. In terms of trophies then you probably see a very one sided battle too with Messi miles on top in club terms but obviously no WC to show for it.
I'm actually a little dissapointed Timo Werner hasn't made your list pal
In all seriousness though I think Messi's longevity alone means he pisses all over Maradonna and Best.
That football was different back then and Messi couldn't have been as dominant as he is in the current game is an argument fans who champion players from past eras often use and theres probably merit to it, but then you have to consider the fitness levels these days and more refined tactics to shut players down compared to the time of Best and Maradonna. To me it's obvious that Messi could adapt to their days better than those players could adapt to his,especially when you consider those players personalities which was a big part of what made them what they were. Their demons would always be there and no matter what the era these men would have found a way to implode. Maradonna on coke binges from Wedneday to Sunday and Best drinking every day of the week would be a bigger obstacle to them than tougher tackling but with more space to operate would be to Messi. These are things we cant know for definite though so the most practical thing to do is probably to just focus on how they impacted football matches when they were playing. Messi has done it more consistently and for longer than any player on your list mate and his numbers are far superior. I realise that it would be boring if we just concentrated on stats and accept theres more to football than numbers. I suppose what I'm saying is that theres just as many reasons why players from the past would struggle today as vice versa.
Outside of Liverpool though my favourite player(and manager) is Cryuff because nobody has ever had a bigger influence on the game imo. When it comes to legendary status he's my no. 1.
I cant disagree with any of that. Each era will say that their players had it hardest etc.
Truth is, they are all great players including Virgil. Werner might be yet though!
My favourite WC was Espana 82 but I was twelve so it was a childhood WC. Rossi, Eder, Falcao, Socrates etc. Even Billy Hamilton!
But all of the players mentioned will go down as greats. My Dad's generation would have had Di Stefano, Charles, Edwards, Charlton, Best, Eusebio, Jairzinho, Pele etc.
Its almost impossible to pick just one player even if it is Maradona for me!!!
I think it's important to consider the advances in sports science and the way players are picked up a lot younger and put through professional academies during their development which has helped them to become the players that they are today and probably the additional longevity that you've mentioned. Taking Maradonna and Best and putting them into the modern era I think you'd find that they wouldn't even be able to compete in the game at the top level anymore with the levels of fitness etc. that we see in the modern game, they'd end up playing Junior B or whatever the soccer equivalent of it is. This doesn't diminish what they did in their own era, all you can really be compared to is your own contemporaries because it's just impossible to compare through different eras as things change too fast. Messi now is a far better player than any of the rest of them from bygone eras but that's because he's a product of a generation with more advantages in his development etc. so the only fair reflection is who excelled more in their era and then it gets a little murkier and the context of what they did in their respective teams and countries becomes more important and I don't know enough about the quality that Maradonna was surrounded with at Napoli or Argentina and I do know that Messi was doing it in a team surrounded by world class players for his entire career at Barcelona.
Already alluded to your main point there Ed. We're on the same page.