Discussion in 'Football Chat' started by Dub13, Mar 4, 2018.
It was worse than this a second earlier because he had his arms wrapped around his neck ffs!!!
PLUS he cant score with his arm!?!?!!!
Add the above madness from villa v Burnley game months back, again ruled out for offside! It's gone out of control !
Seeing more and more players saying it’s running the game. Something needs to be done about how it’s applied in Premier league, they won’t want the negative press on Twitter where top players like Milner and Grealish are coming out against it.
Just came across an interview with Mark Halsey there and he's saying that looking at the incident on the pitch side monitor in slo-mo goes against IFAB protocols. Watch it yes, but it is supposed to be in real time, as we have all said at one stage or another, in slo mo the most innocuous of challenges can look 10 times worse than it actually was
Interesting that maybe they should also make conversation between VAR official and referee more transparent too. That way everyone can see the process for the final decision too.
No interest in another argument on it but I saw some stats that I thought were interesting relating to the on field decisions for goals, overturned by VAR this season,if the Premier League were applying the Dutch margin of error model. And not that it's not obvious,but fuck me our luck is stinking this season.
There were 16 in total,14 dissallowed and 2 overturning the offside to give the goal.Out of the 14 disallowed by VAR,9 still would have been disallowed. Of the 5 that would have stood,3 of them are ours. 1 of them would have even stood last season in the PL,the change in the handball law made it offside. We'd of had a peno against Everton too for Pickfords challenge on Van Dijk if it was last seasons rules.
Another interesting bit was 1 of the two goals VAR awarded after an incorrect onfield offside decision,would have been disallowed under the Dutch method. Only fair I suppose that if you're going to use margin of error that it goes both ways.
I actually didn't realise there was someone using a VAR system with a margin of error involved, just reading up on it now and it sounds exactly like what I would like to see in the PL, I honestly have no issues at all with VAR if it's used correctly but I just think they should acknowledge that there is a margin of error involved (for offsides) and leave it at something reasonable, 10 cms is what the Dutch are using and it sounds about perfect to me, if someone is inside 10 cms' offside it's not a massive issue. Use VAR to cut out the blindingly obvious other decisions in the game and try and find some way to improve the absolutely shocking level of refereeing that we see in England and you've a decent system, they're just going crazy now to try and overanalyse everything to find problems.
To clarify the point on Van Dijk here,its the new handball rule that made him offside before Pickford clattered him. But even though it would be within the Dutch margin of error,we still wouldn't have gotten a penalty because the linesman gave the offside. Whatever the onfield officials decision was stands when the offside is within the margin.
If I'm understanding you right the VVD would have stood if the linesman done his job properly, which is to say he shouldn't be flagging when its so marginal.
Any idea of the time involved in making decisions in Holland?
As far as I'm aware Bob the lineman is supposed to keep his flag down if its marginal so as not to interfere with a goal opportunity but he's still supposed to go with what he initially thought. So if the linesman thought Van Dijk was offside,he was correct to flag for it. How often linesmen are not giving what they feel are marginal offsides because they're willing to let VAR decide is anybodys guess,but that's not what they're supposed to be doing. I don't think there's any blame on the linesman for that one.
I'm still trying to find out what kind of delays there are in Holland.
There is blame on the linesman, he flagged before Virgil even played the ball, in tight calls he's not supposed too. He can raise the flag once the ball is dead or the opportunity is gone. He errored there along with all his mates.
I honestly can't remember exactly what happened. I do remember on the day seeing a bit of criticism of him for not raising the flag earlier and people saying it was only a matter of time before somebody was going to get injured because of that practice,but I don't remember having any strong feelings either way.
If he did put it up too early then he wasn't doing what he was told to and I suppose you're right in that he was technically in the wrong. But then what are we blaming him for exactly? It doesn't effect the decision making process afterwards,had either player seen the flag it probably would have lessened the chance of injury and in the context of the Dutch model we still couldn't of gotten the peno.
I blaming him hypothetically, if we where playing in Holland his raising of the flag would have prevented a penalty (assuming same margin of error rule is in play for fouls). The offside was a badge width, his flag shouldn't have been anywhere near the air.
On the subject of the tackle the flag or whistle would have made no difference, it was all so fast.
We might be at crossed wires here Bob.
He thought it was offside so at some point in the process, he's duty bound to raise his flag,and it turned out he was right. Apart from the debate about whether he should have waited longer to put the flag up,he did exactly what he was supposed to do. Even with the Dutch system he wouldn't have unfairly denied us a peno.
The Dutch league is putting itself in a position of making trouble for themselves.
I wholeheartedly agree with their model - wider lines and if touching youre onside, simple, straightforward, and no need to trim your toenails at half time in case the nanometer they have grown since kickoff would have you offside now
Someone and I cant remember who it was was commenting on it the other day and said while its an excellent system and thinks its the best of a bad lot at this point, but the fact is that they are not using the guidelines set down by IFAB, and by extension FIFA and UEFA - theyre technically not playing the game by the rules, and we all know how governing bodies love a technicality
Also thought Dermott Gallagher spoke some sense (as opposed to his usual fence sitting) the other day when he said he wanted to see the forwards position judged by their feet position and nothing else as they are invariably leaning towards offside with the rest of their bodies to get moving or bending runs.
The new instructions are to leave the flag down in tight calls, flagging for close ones defeats the purpose of introducing the margin of error line. I assume with the Dutch model you would leave the flag down and let the camera decide if its off? If you take Salahs goal on Saturday, if the flag goes up then we're right back were we started, goals being ruled out by 2mm and piss boiling everywhere. I also assume all the goals you referred to earlier would have been given if the lino let it go?
Unless the laws have changed since the season started,thats not correct Bob. Although they consistently go out of their way to contradict the stated purpose of VAR,its not there to officiate the game. Linesmen still have to do their job and calling offsides is their job. They're responsible for calling it,no matter how tight. If VAR disallows a goal for offside,that means the linesman called it onside initially. There is no situation where the linesman is supposed to leave the offside call to VAR,either in England or Holland. An onside goal in Holland was dissalowed a couple of weeks back because the linesman thought it was offside. The onfield decision couldn't be overturned because it was within the margin of error. Whatever reason the margin of error was introduced for,it wasn't to take the responsibility of offside calls away from linesmen. It wouldn't have helped us with that incident.
Maybe it’s just me, but there seems to be little or no VAR madness with the CL, at least not to the same extent. I don’t watch all the games or highlights but can’t remember it being used much at all in the 5 LFC games. In the Premier League it seems to be the main talking point in 3 or 4 games every weekend.