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United Ireland

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by babbsnads, Oct 18, 2019.

  1. babbsnads

    babbsnads
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    I think a United Ireland will happen in our lifetimes,Brexit showing how little the Tory party care about NI making it almost certain imo. But what kind of compromises would we have to make as a nation if you accept that there would have to be compromises to unionists?
    New flag? New national anthem? Is there anything we'd have to dump from our constitution like a special position for the catholic church?
     
  2. bobby benitez

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    I wouldn't have any issue changing the flag or the anthem. Not sure the church is mentioned in our constitution at all, if they are I'd be happy for a referendum next week to remove it.

    The department of education would be in a tricky situation, the history books I read in school might not go down to well in Portadown.
     
  3. mushypea

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    In this life time it might very well happen and I hope we are in a position to but if it was to happen in say the next decade or 2 is it safe to say the Republic simply arent in a position to Govern or afford a United Ireland? When you consider the absolute fuck up FF FG make of running a 26 county state then you'd probably think no.
     
  4. padski08

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    What ever about people giving out about FF and FG (and rightly so in many regards), having the DUP in opposition may be a stumbling block to major decisions in the future state

    Also, I can see the name of the country being changed also, and the set up being more like a Federation or similar to the US (where separate laws will remain in effect for the 6 counties, but will be governed centrally on main issues)

    I think we are seeing the last of the British Union. By 2030, I can see a referendum on this island and also Scotland voting to leave
     
  5. vodkacolly

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    New flag and anthem is fine.
    I would be concerned about the fact that NI is a money pit and the sectarian violence will not go away.
    All the terrorist/criminal activity that Dublin can turn a blind eye to will now become it's problem. And they have clearly shown they can't handle the gangs they already have.
    A lot the mainland Brits aren't happy seeing their money being pumped into NI and it will be the same in the Republic when tax increases quickly appear on the horizon to offset the deficit caused by reunification.
    I don't honestly see the positives outweighing the negatives when it comes to a united Ireland and I think it will be hard to achieve when the votes are split so close to 50/50.
    Growing up, I never thought I would see it in my lifetime, but the way the world is now... anything can happen.
     
  6. edcarroll02

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    New flag doesn't seem necessary considering what the Irish flag represents but I suppose these are the kind of concessions that you would have to consider if we were to see a United Ireland, Orange Parade's in Dublin, home soccer and rugby matches moving between Dublin and Belfast, parliament sitting in dual locations too. As it happens I still don't believe it will happen in my lifetime though as I understand it the majority is moving and will continue to do so on a population basis more towards the nationalist side the power sharing will always have to accommodate a shared viewpoint on it that would require both a significant majority (60% is the current number in the Brexit text) and a mimimum of 40% from each side of the floor (nationalist and unionist - not sure how the "others" fit into this). You're never going to see a situation whereby 40% of the DUP or UUP are going to support a United Ireland, I just don't see how the mechanics of the situation can be achieved. Despite having regulatory alignment with Ireland and the EU under this text they are still functionally a member of the UK and will continue to be a part of all of their new trade arrangements, this is a wonderful deal for them without the consideration of anything to do with a United Ireland but of course the DUP are too worried about protecting the integrity of their precious Union (the same Union which is currently hurling them under a bus).
     
  7. babbsnads

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    You're right. A quick google shows we removed it in the 70's.
     
  8. Liverpool-law

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    If it happened, the UK would be subsidising it for a long while after, it wouldn't happen like switching off a light switch. You could trace the handover of Hong Kong from 1979 to 1997 for example.

    I am not a huge Nationalist but while recognising all of the issues and problems it would entail, they should never be seen as a reason not to do it. And the position and status of the DUP and their ilk in an overall United Ireland would be hugely diluted. They certainly couldn't maintain their veto status. You would need a huge amount of perceived deference and lip service in addition to giving them some key positions of actual power but they wouldn't in any way be the steering (retrograde) force they are today. Gay marriage, abortion etc, is already in, nothing they can do about it except sip their tea and glower.
     
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  9. GaryMc

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    Hope we see it in our lifetime however not sure we will. The best hope is that Britain want rid of it, I think then the conditions will be suited for it to happen.

    Lived in Belfast for many years, hung out with people from both sides, many of them staunch. 15/20 years later I would have thought things would have moved on more than they have. Young people growing up in Republican and Loyalist areas are the same as their parents despite 20 years of relative peace.

    One thing that was apparent 20 years ago that people in north who lived just across the border from us had it better. Free doctor, dental, better education, seemed to have better Wages, bigger houses and cars. Everyone I went to college with had their own car, I could barely afford the bus and rent. A lot of those Catholics who would not considered themselves nationalist/republican were happy enough to not have a United Ireland.

    The tables have turned though, wage gap between North and South is quite big, so those people who 20 years ago would not be bothered would now jump at chance of United Ireland and being in EU.
     
  10. Irishkop96

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    You mention about houses and cars.
    The cars are easy one most of the cars in North are DLA cars (government subsided) with people been sick/addiction/etc.
    I know someone in Derry who was busted for drugs start of year has a spanking new x6 Jeep due to drug rehab rehabilitation scheme.
    Houses at moment in Derry just in border with Donegal are been built (mostly council) in there hundreds if not thousands. I know some that money coming from Europe.
     
  11. Garrett

    Garrett
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    Hi,

    I can't see it happening in my life time ....

    While my heart says yes, I'd love it, my head says no, it would be wrong.

    Obviously, there's the emotional side of things, the dream of a united Ireland, the return of "our" six counties etc. However, the flip side of it is that I fear the unionist paramilitaries would return to killing and people all over the island would be at risk. Furthermore, I don't think we could afford to take on the 6 counties - we're already neck deep in debt as a nation, without trying to fund another 6 counties that would have very high unemployment if the UK Government stopped employing all the people in the north that they currently employ.

    Perhaps the solution involves doing a deal between N.I. & Scotland first, whereby Unionists are relocated to Scotland, and in return, those with Republican sentiment move to N.I. In theory, that might help pave the way for a united Ireland in the future (by first splitting the Unionists out who don't want a united Ireland and would rather remain part of the UK), but obviously it would be a very slow process as you can't just take people and airlift them from NI to Scotland or vice versa, over a long weekend. Might be a tricky one to get past the SNP too ! A simple variation would be to just incentivise the unionists to relocate to anywhere in England or Wales, not just Scotland.

    The really sad thing about N.I. is that I'd imagine over 95% of the overall population up there, would just like a normal life, without any of the day to day sh1te about unionist-v-republican etc. - something they could easily have in so many other parts of the world, but yet don't look much closer to having now, than they did twenty years ago, in the 6 counties.
     
  12. bobby benitez

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    @Garrett you have posted some mad stuff over the years, a kind of swap plantation is without doubt the most insane. Has Trump got hold of your phone?
     
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  13. Garrett

    Garrett
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    :D :D :D

    In all honesty, can you see a more straight forward way to bring about a peaceful united Ireland ? :)
     
  14. bobby benitez

    bobby benitez
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    Maybe not telling them that their 400 years are up and it's time to cash in that return ticket to Scotland.
     
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  15. edcarroll02

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    A more humane ethnic cleansing than the Nazis used to go for but the same ultimate goal.
     
  16. babbsnads

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    Hard line unionism is having a tough time of it at the moment. Abortion,marriage equality coming in and Boris Johnson fucking them under a bus and then reversing back over them while everybody else who they thought were there friends have washed their hands of them because they've stopped being useful. While it's hard to have any sympathy I can't help thinking that coralling them onto a ferry to Scotland probably wouldnt be straight forward or peaceful,and that might be an understatement.

    Even leaving aside mental suggestions like that I actually think that if Johnson gets this deal through that it wont be long before Ireland and the EU will have to answer questions about whether we've been irresponsible. As much as unionists who've spent their lives obstructing and being bigoted deserve everything they're getting,the bigger picture is imo being ignored. The anger,helplessness and sense of betrayal those nutjobs will now be feeling has a lot of potential to turn into violence. As things stand the chances of no rioting are non existent and we've all seen where it can go from there.
     
  17. Liverpool-law

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    No one should down play the potential for violence, if one person is killed out of this it is too many. But the tensions bubbling under the surface for years now don't seem to be going away, they are only getting worse. That's because for all the goodwill invested in the Good Friday agreement there is a sizable faction on both sides who never bought into it and will look for any excuse. Be that nationalists in the event of a land border or unionists if they are ever cut loose. The thing is, are we going to let the overall direction of where we go from here be dictated by the lunatic fringe. IF, over a long period of time, the process was set in train for a united Ireland, it would be with a democratic majority on both sides of the border AND agreement from Westminster. So if the unionists start violence, it is a different situation entirely to the troubles. They were backed by the UK government and army in the troubles. In the future scenario, it would be them taking on the rest of the island and not backed by the UK. That is just both hugely simplistic and too roughly put but I'm not going to start writing a very heavy book to tease out the niceties as it would take a few years. The overall balance shift remains though.
     
  18. babbsnads

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    It's obviously a fine line between compromise and allowing what's right to be held hostage which is why things like womens bodily autonomy and marriage equality being legislated for is right no matter what, but the way Brexit has played out does make unionist violence a very real possibility. The EU and ourselves both rightly took very seriously the potential for a return to violence from Republicans during this whole process, I just think that there should have been more consideration given to the potential for unionist violence even or at least more conciliatory language from Varadkar. But if anything he probably inflamed tensions with his comments about red post boxes.
     
  19. Liverpool-law

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    I think Varadkar has been guilty of the odd slight here and there but I think the context of what he was saying in this case was intended to be reassurance rather than poking the bear. The problem is if someone is intent on taking offence they will regardless.
     
  20. babbsnads

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    I think Varadkar has performed very capably when it comes to Brexit but I dont think theres a politician on either island who wouldn't realise that would come across as patronising to unionists? And I dont think theres a politician anywhere who thinks more about how the things he says will be framed in the media.
     

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