Good summary of him Mick. I could never quite pin point why he looks so good yet is so ineffective. They're results away from home in the big games are also a give away about how strong they are in midfield.
I've thought it for a while now but this guy looks the complete package to me. He breaks up everything in the middle and like all top quality midfielders he rarely if ever gives the ball away. Rarely gets goals or assists but always reasonbly high in the key passes and chances created numbers. Has the highest pass completion in the league in the opposition's half (report was from Feb) and the highest successful dribble % in the league. Beating players takes them out of the game and couple that with his pass completion rate in the opposing half and you're looking at a very good combination. This will be all about opinions and neither can be proved right or wrong but I think Dembele has been incredible when fit for Spurs. Your point about defences getting set because he's wasting time dribbling is a bit of an unquantifiable one for me, you may well be right but I just believe it's a bit of a simplistic way of dismissing his quite obvious tangible contributions.
I'm not sure it proves anything in isolation, winning away to the top 4 is a huge ask for any team. Spurs are the new kids on the block, this season is the first time I've felt they believed they belonged at the top table and the mentality is shifting. Draw away to Juve, draw at Anfield, win at Chelsea, coupled with home wins against Arsenal, Utd, Us (can't remember City or Chelsea home results). I think he's a quality player anyway, he might not be in the elite bracket but I think injuries might hold him back in that regard. I think he'd start every game in the liverpool midfield if fit, same for all top 6 except City perhaps.
What you're calling unquantifiable I think is very obvious Ed.A pass through midfield in the main takes more players out of the game than a dribble and it does it much quicker.Its very basic logic to me that getting the ball to players in between the lines and earlier makes things tougher for the opposition because I don't even think it's debatable that the longer players have to get back into a defensive position,the more likely it is they'll do it and the eventual pass isn't to a player between the lines anymore,its to a player the wrong side of 9 players instead of 5.Imposing himself on games with his physicality and keeping the ball are good qualities to have and he is a good player, but at the same time having a high pass completion rate when most of your passes are the simple kind is to be expected,as is playing most of your passes in the opposition half when its not in your locker to make more penetrating passes from deeper.I'm not dismissing tangible contributions,I'm pointing out what I think would be more valuable contributions to a team like Spurs and what stops him being in the bracket many put him in.
I could just as easily say that by receiving the ball and driving past the opposition's midfielders he has already put the defending team on the back foot, made a defender have to think about coming out to close him down and leaving Eriksen, Kane and Ali free to find pockets of space to work their magic. It might be why his teamates say he's their most valuable player. I called it unquantifiable because there's no way to prove what you say is happening is actually happening, same as my point above. Both sound logical but neither one of us can prove it.
I wasn't arguing whether your use of the word unquantifiable was technically correct Ed,99% of opinions on football are technically unquantifiable.Personally it's not a term I'd use on differences of opinion like this ie. a players actions where the outcome can be obviously seen,even if that outcome can be perceived in different ways tactically,but everyone to their own.Im also sure the Spurs players appreciate a lot of the things he does and he brings plenty to the team but unquantifiable or not,I'm not having in a million years he's even close to their best player. What is quantifiable is he doesn't score goals and doesn't create goals,so when your main job is to get the ball and give it to players who can do those things,I'm pretty comfortable in the opinion that they could find somebody who does that job in a far more efficient manner.But we'll agree to disagree pal.
Dembele is 31 before the start of next season. Alderweireld was 29 yesterday. While both would improve us I dont see Klopp or FSG forking out the money required for players in that age/price bracket.
Agree that Dembele is one of those players who was slightly underrated for a long time. Once he started getting some praise for playing well in a few high profile games, he is now actually somewhat overrated in my opinion. He is no spring chicken and maybe it’s a case that Poch has improved him, I still don’t think he is at the level to make a real difference to move a team from top 4 contenders to title winners. If he was dropped into the LFC squad this summer to replace Can, I don’t think he would be a dramatic improvement. Given his age Can probably a better long term player for anyone looking to progress
Read that the exact same way myself mate. Between Milner's age, Can most likely leaving, Hendo and Lallan both looking like they'll attract injuries like a magnet is attracted to metal, Gini not quite a first teamer, I reckon we have to bring in two more quality midfielders (aside from Keita) tbh. If by some fluke Can stayed, then we could probably get away with just bringing in one more midfielder, but then I'd imagine we'd be looking for a further midfielder within 6-12 months. Whatever about Dembele, Alderweireld at 29 should be good for a 3-4 year contract. I take your point btw and while I agree with your belief about FSG/Klopp being unlikely to spend on players of that age, I don't entirely agree with the apparent policy and think exceptions could be made.
That's an interesting one and £26.8m in 12 months is serious wedge, but I think it's very much a necessary evil for us these days ... we must get the quality players in, so just have to pay the agents whatever it takes to get the top deals over the line. Chavs, City and Utd make up the Top 4 spenders and while Utd have paid the least, I'd say that's because they are still a club that quite a few players are desperate to join, so their agents don't have as much influence (and can't pry as much cash out of the club). Hopefully that will swing more and more in LFC's favour over the coming years, but we need success on the pitch to help change the situation imho. And there's the lovely little gem that if we look at the five players signed during that 12 month period, we've more than got our value for all agents fees, in the Salah deal alone. Interesting comments posted below the article and in particular, the reference to Keita. I suspect we paid Red Bull a "deposit" when we agreed the deal, so would have thought that his agent also got a bit of dosh at the same time, but obviously don't see us paying out the full wedge until this summer.
You'll get some stats for Lemar here . I suspect he's not doing as well in what is a weaker team than last season etc. That may well help lower his price, if we're interested in making a bid this summer, but I'm not sure if we'll go back for him despite needing a couple more midfielders. While on the subject of Monaco, what would peoples thoughts be on us going after Jemerson ? Looks to me like he's a decent CB, just coming into his prime.
Personally I’d still live Zaha from Palace , watched the Palace game this morning and he would thrive under Klopp .
Wonder if Klopp could get Zaha to understand theres a defensive side to the game Rocco? Theres no doubting he's a very special talent going forward, but has little or no interest in tracking back or for lack of a better term - "doing a Bobby". It was highlighted after we played them how much freedom Robertson had in the opposition half with Zaha rarely within 10 yards of him, and its not an isolated occurrence with him. High press and forward players winning the ball back is a huge part of our game and its not a part of Zaha's game at the moment. Of course if anyone is going to instill a bit of defensive nous in him you'd back it to be Klopp, and adding Zaha to our forward options could only be a good thing.
When all your team mates are pressing and tracking as a unit, he will just get with the program imo . He would know what he is signing up to if he decided to play under Klopp.
I'd imagine being young and English they'd be looking for around £40m. I'm sure the clubs scouts could find better value than that. Last summers signings alone would make me confident they would.
I'd be thinking along those lines myself.I like Zaha but 40m might even be the lower end of the scale of what they'd be looking to get if a club like us got involved and I'm not sure it makes sense for us,or him for that matter.You either go big and buy somebody who's closer to the level of what we already have or you do like you say,find similar talent/potential for a more realistic price.Zaha is not at the level of a Mane or Salah and while he'd get plenty of game time,would he want to be sitting on the bench at the business end of competitions? Would his time at ManU put him off signing for a club with the type of talent we have in his position? I'd be happy to see him arrive if Klopp wanted him but I think due to the different circumstances the most likely outcome is him ending up at a club a level below us.