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The general news thread

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by Red7778, Aug 4, 2011.

  1. babbsnads

    babbsnads
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    Eligible :)

    Whether she should be there or not depends on how you view it. Hardcore unionists don't want any creditability given to politicians elected in the Republic taking part in talks involving Northern Ireland politics. They're about 40 years late on that one but that's their view and they'll have made that point strongly to the UK government. Anti shinners in the south are making the same point you are and ignoring any nuance(not saying you're ignoring any nuance here by the way) because let's be honest, what's best for the people of Northern Ireland is not something they concern themselves with.

    The other side of the coin is Sinn Fein are an All Ireland party and its important to nationalists that the leader of the party is respected as one of their representatives in matters like this. Obviously theres 2 different jurisdictions and its not pragmatic that everything can be treated as All Ireland issues,but this is one of those occassions where nationalists would expect their rights to be respected as Irish citizens and the leader of the biggest nationalist party to be present at talks of this type.James Cleverly sided with the unionists,knowing it would get nationalist politicians backs up, and whatever side you come down on,the result is the meeting is now pointless as SF or the SDLP won't be represented. The SDLP aren't exactly Sinn Feins biggest fans but they know it was a deliberate slap in the face to nationalists,and you can't enter talks starting from that position.

    So Tories and Unionists have as usual gone for posturing over pragmatism and common sense, and what was supposed to be an attempt to solve problems has just created more. The opportunity was there for everybody to walk in as equal.Jeffrey Donaldson isn't an MLA but he's invited as the leader of the DUP which is of course correct and right,but they can't help themselves. The Tories approach everything as a points scoring exercise,they know they'll eventually have to throw Unionism under the bus again so calculated insulting nationalism now was the right move here. And again,the people who actually matter will suffer because of it.

    The plan I believe was to engineer a situation where it would just be Sinn Fein staying outside so they could spin it as "look at Sinn Fein preventing Stormont getting back up and running" to take some of that heat off the DUP, but they didn't bank on the SDLP staying out too.
     
  2. edcarroll02

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    I wasn't coming at this from any anti Shinner angle at all, the reason I even heard about it was Varadkar and Martin commenting that even they felt it was inappropriate for her to be excluded (and they very much are anti Shinner) but I couldn't quite grasp why she should have been there. I still don't fully get it but obviously if SF, FF and FG all agree she should have been there then I'm just missing the obvious political context here.

    On your point about Donaldson wasn't he technically elected as an MLA but chose to stand as an MP instead which isn't the same as Mary Lou who was elected in a different jurisdiction entirely?
     
  3. babbsnads

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    I wasn't saying you were coming at it from an anti shinner angle Ed. I'm saying the anti shinners are making the same points you are, even down to the one on Donaldson being an elected representative in the north. But he's not a representative of the Assembly. He was invited because its a meeting for leaders and you you don't have to have been elected in the north to be leader of either the DUP or Sinn Fein. By the anti shinner logic, James Cleverly has no business being there,he's not the northern Ireland secretary,he's the foreign secretary. You'd think the hardline unionists would be offended by him running the show on this,after all,they're not foreign. The political context is not really that complicated,its a basic concept of respecting nationalists Irishness in the same way that unionists Britishness is respected,like is set out in the Good Friday Agreement.

    Its also basic common sense. Exclusionary decisions to pander to hardline unionists who against the wishes of the majority of citizens in the jurisdiction, backed the course of action that made the protocol necessary,is not how you enter genuine negotiations. The paper thin theory that allowing McDonald to be present is not a concession nationalists are entitled to, falls apart the second its pointed out that the Assembly isn't operating because unionists are refusing to abide by the protocol they championed,only needed because of the Brexit they championed,and that they could find common ground on right up until the point when Sinn Fein became the biggest party and earned the right to nominate a First Minister. But it's unreasonable for the Sinn Fein leader to expect to be present for negotiations chaired by the UK foreign secretary?

    Plus, If you're genuinely trying to get the Assembly back up and running, you'd want the main decision makers from the biggest parties involved in the discussions. Even without the politicking,spite and attempts to insult nationalists, as a concept it doesn't get more basic than that, ie. it's either a genuine attempt at resolving the issue or its not. And Sinn Fein,the SDLP, Fine Gael, Fianna Fail,every neutral political correspondent and even a few who aren't neutral, know a genuine attempt would have involved McDonald.
     
  4. dk.lfc

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    Argos set to leave Ireland

    The Argos catalogue was the amazon before amazon
     
  5. Irishkop96

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    Why is that burke fella still going to that school? Obviously for the attention?
     
  6. SUPERFAN

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    He's looking for John Rogers.
     
  7. vodkacolly

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    It's the principal.
     
  8. babbsnads

    babbsnads
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    Time to start treating him like any other weirdo that enters a school he's no business in being in, ie. a potential danger to kids.
     
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  9. edcarroll02

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    Ordinarily this matter wouldn't make any difference to a situation but on this particular instance when you're talking about a school where there are both principals and principles I'm going to assume you meant it's the principles that has him there rather than some vendetta against the principal (both seem plausible).
     
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  10. edcarroll02

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    We get regular security training in my job and one of the biggest red flags they always highlight for physical and cyber security threats are insider threats typically coming from disgruntled ex employees. This guy should be treated as very dangerous turning up at a school right now, I'd consider the risk of him doing something very dangerous to be alarmingly high and if I was a parent with kids in the school I would be contacting Gardai every time I saw him anywhere near the area.
     
  11. vodkacolly

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    Yes that's what I meant although it was also meant to be a play on words.
    I forgot the two words were spelt differently.
    Good catch.
     
  12. babbsnads

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    Niall likes this.
  13. Niall

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    Doctor Tony bringing out his autobiography :D Never say that coming :D:D
     
  14. GaryMc

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    Eager to see what shitstorm will be entered into the mainstream media in next few days to take attention away from this Nursing Home story. Leo already deflecting calling it complex etc.
     
  15. mushypea

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    Can't bring myself to look at the video footage of that man who was murdered by 5 Memphis police officers. Whether its right or wrong for the footage to be made public is one thing but at least the there can be no denial.
     
  16. babbsnads

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    I'd say Varadkar is wishing he didn't go on radio yesterday morning and lie. Even for a politician that lad isn't normal. He won't admit he lied,he'll just move the goalposts and brazen it out. There's a good few of them in the shit here though, so again it's going to be a case of them saying "we're not liars,we're just incompetent". The excuse about not reading all their emails/correspondence will be used again.And the big guns will come out in The Dail. I wouldn't be surprised if Jean McConville gets a mention.
     
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  17. Niall

    Niall
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    Simon Harris kicking for touch. His spokesperson not denying anything, just says Simon doesn't have access to those documents now. Bleach and shreaders.
     
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  18. bobby benitez

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    They're going to need to call in some amount of media favours here. Both parties look untenable now, never mind individuals.
     
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  19. babbsnads

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    Ivan Bacik out to tell us that neither Brendan Howlin or Eamon Gilmore have any recollection of any memo. That generation of Labour Party TD's really did a number on that party and years later they're still screwing them over.
     
  20. SUPERFAN

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    Shortall playing dumb on morning Ireland this morning.
     

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