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The Gardai

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by honald_tdb, Mar 26, 2017.

  1. honald_tdb

    honald_tdb
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    what can be done to sort them out once and for all?

    Who's best to lead them?

    Is the PSNI model of change from the RUC needed?

    I haven't any answers but am shocked and stunned by the number of seriousness of what they've been up to.
     
  2. Garrett

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    No doubt about it, the force is under pressure given the range of problems that have arisen, ranging from the current issues with false records of the number of people tested for drink driving and wrongful prosecutions, to the issues around the whistleblowers, to the issues that took place with the force in places like Donegal etc. I think the force will need a complete overhaul and a new leadership team brought in from outside of the Gardai....

    That said, the obvious problems come with regards to the impact all of these problems are having on the moral of the honest hard working Gardai and also the risk of what may take place with every criminal in the country only waiting to see the Gardai go through some form of mass restructure, so they can take advantage of the situation and run riot even more than they get away with already.

    Recent months have seen a lot of drug seizures and arrests made for drugs and some murders, so we can't forget that either and without the Gardai, none of these criminals would be stopped or brought to justice.

    I've wanted to see the army and the Gardai merged for years and while it's traditionally been to get the best from our resources, to see people trained with firearms made available to help keep law and order, to almost double the numbers working to prevent crime rather than have a small army with few functions other than the odd peace keeping mission abroad and perhaps minding a cash delivery between banks from time to time. Perhaps bringing in some of the senior people from the army to help run and manage the Gardai going foward might be part of this, while also bring in some "new blood" to help sort some of the current problems in the Gardai and restore confidence in the leadership there ?
     
  3. GaryMc

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    A lot of things going on with the Garda at the moment however for me folks in smaller villages and rural are paying the price for the closure of stations all over the country. The amount of crime in rural areas has increased as gangs know they are no. Garda presence. Similar to the closing down of hospital and ambulance services it affects a lot of people however gets no airtime.

    It's a general problem with society that targets are set all the time and in many cases the targets are not achieveable, either in terms of budget cuts or % reductions etc.

    The easiest short term thing to do is try and manipulate things to make it look positive and by time it's realised it's a sham, the folks responsible have moved on.
     
  4. Garrett

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    That's a good point about the rural communities, but I'm not sure exactly what the right balance given the rural residents need support, but not at any cost to the rest of the nation....

    No more than people pay more to live in the cities, in terms of the property prices they pay and subsequently the property taxes (or fuel costs, given their car journeys are far less economical etc.), I wonder if similar to the way that parts of the rural community pay more to get their own water supply, should they be paying a bit more to get a certain level of emergency services (with the money they pay ring fenced to go towards costs of providing the emergency services relating to their region of the country) ? ... I'm not saying that rural people pay the full additional cost btw, just a reasonable contribution towards it.

    It's not practical to cover every inch of the country needless to say, but the cuts that have been made to health care and Gardai are clearly too much, so in principal it needs fixing.
     
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  5. GaryMc

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    I suppose that depends on your view of how society should contribute to keeping the country going. Those who can afford it get the platinum services while those in areas that are less affluent need to make do with best endeavours. Not saying that is what you think, however you can see why people in rural areas feel more and more isolated.

    When looking at all the money that is wasted in management in all government agencies, I'll rather more frontline services and less of those hogging the budget. Those reviews won't happen though as too many vested interests.

    Would be great to get a view from a country that has a functioning police force on what this country is doing wrong over and over again at the top level.
     
  6. edcarroll02

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    I think we're a very non-compliant country in general, from the very bottom to the very top. I don't know exactly how we compare right across the world but if you look at the likes of the Germans or the Scandinavians where they follow the laws almost to the letter. If you're on a motorway over there everyone drives in the correct lane, there are trucks which are not allowed in either the middle lane on a motorway or the over taking lane and they just stay where they're meant to be. Because compliance with small laws like that are so high they don't have to worry about mass non-compliance. Little things like people crossing the street in big towns and cities, they always wait for the green man. Motorists don't try and break the lights either, it seems they're just a more compliant people for whatever reason. I've seen it in a few different countries but Germany stands out most in my mind.

    When there's just a general acceptance that you can break these little laws it doesn't take long for the attitude to grow and you ultimately end up with a society where everyone basically does whatever they feel is justified. Me breaking a light in my car because I want to get home from work a little earlier, someone claiming two social welfare cheques each month because they feel they deserve it, couples co-habiting and claiming single parent status, politicians claiming expenses fraudulently (and having the cheek to defend it at a cost of thousands to the taxpayer) are all symptoms of a society which isn't functioning correctly. This latest craze with everyone trying to cash in on any little incident their children might have in a park or a creche with a massive insurance claim is another gleaming example of how this sense of entitlement exists.

    You might argue of course that these things started at the top and have filtered down but it hardly seems important now, either way there just seems to be a complete breakdown in a lot of different parts of our society at all different kinds of levels and most of it people just accept as the way it is. Hard to see how it could ever turn back to be honest with you, it's just who we are.
     
    Dub13, prendy, honald_tdb and 4 others like this.
  7. Dub13

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    So the garda commissioner has set up an enquiry lead by the assistant commissioner with a team of garda investigators. Oh great transparency and an outcome to follow.....
     
  8. Dub13

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    It is staggering how unaccountable positions in high office seem to be in this country. In the UK, Noirin would have been pushed/walked 10 times over at this stage.
     
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  9. Garrett

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    Hi mate,

    That's not actually how I see this at all - it's definitely not a split between the affluent and less well off, it's a split between city and rural living. There are benefits and negatives to living in either the cities or the countryside - be it the benefits of public transport, or the far cheaper cost of buying a really nice house etc. Obviously what you do for a living plays an important part on where you need to live - a farmer won't have reason to live in Dublin city centre and so on, while lifestyle choices are also a factor (people who love the rural landscape often hate cities and won't live in them at almost any cost).

    Ultimately, it's then a case of asking well where is the funding coming from to pay for the emergency services and by default, Dublin is top of the list given it's home to over 33% of the population, followed by the other cities, then the larger towns and so on until you get to remote parts of rural Ireland. So in order for there to be a degree of equity, you have to accept that funds for public services are invested to reflect where they are generated (in the main, but not exclusively ....).

    I've said that funds should be allocated in the main, but not exclusively, based on where they are generated because not withstanding the point I've just made, there's also another important point for us all to keep in mind and thats national pride and the benefits (direct or indirect) that we all get, from keeping the more rural and remote parts of Ireland in good order, safe an so on. We all are proud to say we are Irish, we all appreciate the countryside, whether it's to go fishing, mountain walks, the scenary or just because we want to ensure we've got a decent food source and know that it's vital to provide the infrastructure to lead to that.

    Don't get me started....

    Paul's point above about who is going to investigate the latest problems in the Gardai is 100% spot on, the last people to investigate and fix a problem are the people in the middle of it, there's a natural conflict of interest.

    That said, when you bring in outsiders you have to:
    A) Ensure that they are not given an Agenda by their paymasters
    B) Empower them to make the changes they feel need to be made

    The waste of money in this country is shameful, has been for any one of a hundred reasons we care to reflect on.... RTE is this month's hot topic and next month it will be something else, but time and time again, we'll continue to do the wrong thing (while the few share the spoils, either through professional fees or brown paper envelopes :mad:)
     
  10. stamullenredmen

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    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/irel...ho-died-compounds-family-s-distress-1.3078653 Don't know if anyone has picked this up but it's beyond words, the lady in question had mental health issues and was picked up in Dublin naked by Gardai. One of them videoed it, shared it in a Whats App group and a few days later it was put on Facebook, got 100k views before it was pulled. She took her own life a few days later.
     
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  11. GaryMc

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    Watched Primetime last about shenanigans at templemor and the inaccurate statements seemingly given to Commitee last week.

    The boss woman is doing well to hang in there, much like the boss man of the country. No scandal or bad news is enough to take either of them down.
     
  12. edcarroll02

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    Drives me absolutely mad this kind of stuff, there's no nobility in Irish politics or in the upper echelons of any of our public bodies. With the amount of scandal that she has endured in the short few years she's been in there most people would have walked away a long time ago but that's not the Irish way. She'll cling on in there until she's paid off or some other arrangement is made to get her out of there, it's sickening really.
     
  13. Garrett

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    Ah, you mean like promote her into a senior civil servant role, or perhaps even a nice little EU role ? :)

    .... At this stage, I think there's so much apparently wrong with the Gardai that it's hard to know if a change in leadership would be enough to sort it out. It needs a complete overhaul really and that necessitates extreme actions - replacing all of the Gardai would take a decade and cause absolute havoc in the interim, I'd like to merge them with the army for reasons previously stated (such as doubling the numbers in law enforcement, proper firearms training, new leadership from the army now available to help steady the ship etc). I suppose another possible solution is to hire a bunch of the Internal Affairs guys from the USA and get them into the Gardai to help route out the problems - but would a force with lots of problems really permit outsiders to come in and put an end to whatever some of them have been up to.

    All of the above said, most of my personal experiences with the Gardai have always been very good - not that I've ever been in any serious trouble or anything, but with one or possibly two exceptions in my life, incidents like the time when my car was broken into etc. were always dealt with well, the Gardai were good to deal with etc. Likewise, anytime I ever have to pop into the local station for anything.... so they ain't all bad either is what I'm trying to say and with that in mind, I feel for those honest Gardai trying to do a good job and having all this grief going on around them in the force, day in day out.
     
  14. Dub13

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    Nóirín must have some severe dirt on members of "our" government.

    Either she is the unluckiest most incompetent Commissioner in history or she is up to her tits in it.
     
  15. Garrett

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    I'd guess that there's probably a lot of strapping and support there, so by default she may not be all that deep in it at all mate ;)
     
  16. Irishkop96

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    Their is a village in donegal where the garda station is closed down for weekends and only open certain hours in a day. But when nobody is in the garda station,they leave a car at the station all the time. Surely this is a serious misuse of resources? Every night it is a different car..
     
  17. Brendinho

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    Re: rural crime; I don't think it's fair to lay the blame at the Gardai and their resources.

    The scum who beat up that 94 year old man in Tipperary during the week...I wonder how many previous convictions they have.... I'm guessing it is probably in the hundreds between them. That's not how a normal society should function. I'm all for giving second, third, even fourth chances to offenders, especially if they are young and stupid but a line needs to be drawn. We need to start taking punishment seriously instead of the bullshit we have now. Nobody should be at liberty to commit more crime if they have 200 convictions.
     
  18. GaryMc

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    The lack though of any gardai for 10miles gives these brazen tramps the opportunity to get away with it. If the local Garda station is a few miles away they will think twice. Would love to see an analysis of crime 10/15 years ago with proximity to the nearest station and same analysis now.
     
  19. LFCRebel

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    Maurice Mccabe and his family went through hell for just doing his job correctly. Can't imagine what they went through over the years. He must feel like a man who's just been set free from prison. He deserves his retirement from the Gardai and better off out of it for his own health and well being.
     
  20. sligo fan

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    Think its disgraceful that Mr Callinan seems to be just walking away from all this, with a nice pension?
     

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