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Discussion in 'General LFC Discussion' started by Dub13, Feb 13, 2011.
This is a very interesting watch.
Once done safely and properly with open access to the pitch and kid free area
A few fans and MPs have been preaching this for years but they don't seeem any nearer to success.
I don't understand why clubs don't back this campaign. They have the power to bring about change.
Probably because there is nothing really in it for them.
I would give anything to see this safe standing brought in, nothing worse than having to sit and watch a game.
What about higher capacity?
more revenue etc.
Good watch, some interesting arguments but still cant see it happening anytime soon
The whole idea behind safe standing is that everyone has their own designated standing space to avoid overcrowding and crowd control like they do in Germany. So I don't see how that would increase attendance though I could be wrong.
This was the standing section for the LFC supporter at the friendly in Germany this season.
Im just back from the St Pauli game in Germany. 3 of the stands are terraced. It certainly wasn't overcrowded where I was, yet the game was a sell out. The ticket cost €14 and you can bring your beer in with you. Had a great time, and think I'll head over once a year. Liver is fcuked, and I don't have much recovery time before Prague!
Seen this on another site.
why not just stand in front of seats? safest bet all round. will end up with another disaster sooner or later if take seats away. big game will come along and stewards will take back handers to let people in and overcrowd the place,would happen eventually i say
The model discussed is where every supporter has a designated place to stand with an exact number of standing places available.
More information on the Kop Blog
much harder to monitor i suspect no, in ideal world id love to see it but even the Hill is dangerous,think u`d need the size of a seat for each person if u get me?
That is exactly the concept of safe standing and properly ticketed as well.
so how would it increase capacity?
SPL to pilot safe standing areas,Just heard it on SSN now.
SPL Statement: Rule Changes
At todayâ€™s SPL General Meeting, clubs approved changes to SPL rules on safe standing and Unacceptable Conduct.
The SPL Board will now have the ability to approve requests from clubs to pilot safe standing areas for use in Clydesdale Bank Premier League matches.
The amendments to the existing Unacceptable Conduct rules were put forward following discussions within the Joint Action Group and are part of footballâ€™s commitment to protect and maintain the good reputation of the game in Scotland.
The definition of â€œUnacceptable Conductâ€ within the SPL Rules has been extended to include â€˜using words, conduct or displaying any writing or other thing which indicates support for, or affiliation to, or celebration of, or opposition to an organisation proscribed in terms of the Terrorism Act 2000â€™.
A number of amendments to the accompanying guidance notes which set out the minimum standards expected of SPL clubs in relation to tackling Unacceptable Conduct will also be introduced.
Where a charge is to be laid that a club has not met the requirements of the Unacceptable Conduct rules, the case will be heard by an Independent Commission.
Neil Doncaster, Chief Executive of the SPL, said: â€œSince I joined the SPL in 2009, there has been widespread support amongst fans to re-introduce safe standing areas. I am delighted that we have been able to respond positively to supportersâ€™ views on improving the match day experience.
â€œChanges to our rules on Unacceptable Conduct â€˜raise the barâ€™ in terms of what is expected of clubs and shows our clubs are committed to playing their part in tackling Unacceptable Conduct.â€
Approval for safe standing areas will also be required from local Safety Committees and the Police.
The amendments to the accompanying guidance notes will place requirements on SPL clubs to:
â€“ Bring Unacceptable Conduct to the attention of the Match Commander;
â€“ Take reasonably practical steps, including consultation with police, to identify those who engage in Unacceptable Conduct;
â€“ Once identified, to apply proportionate sanctions against a supporter, or person exercising function for a club (other than as an official or an employee) who engages in Unacceptable Conduct;
â€“ Include requirements in all SPL clubsâ€™ match ticket conditions, season ticket conditions and in Ground Regulations that supporters must adhere to a Fans Charter/Code of Conduct (once finalised);
â€“ submit interim and annual reports to the SPL Secretary detailing actions taken to prevent Unacceptable Conduct by supporters and what steps have been taken to address Unacceptable Conduct that does occur;
â€“ Maintain records of requests for police assistance, and or police interventions in relation to incidents of Unacceptable Conduct and the responses given.
Any Independent Commission will be chaired by an advocate or solicitor of at least ten years standing.
Should a club be found to have failed to meet the requirements of the Unacceptable Conduct rules, the Independent Commission will have the power to apply a wide range of sanctions, including warnings, fines, annulment of results, points deductions, prohibitions from supporters attending matches and playing of matches behind closed doors or at other venues, amongst others.
The campaign for safe standing areas to be incorporated into top-level football grounds has received a major boost, after Aston Villa said they are examining introducing a standing section at Villa Park.
Paul Faulkner, Villa's chief executive, told a supporters' consultation group that he recognises fans want to stand, that safe standing areas could help improve the match atmosphere, allow for some cheaper ticket prices, and therefore attract younger supporters currently priced out by the cost of seats.
Faulkner has met the Football Supporters' Federation, which has long campaigned for a relaxation of the law compulsory requiring clubs in the top two divisions to have all-seating in their grounds.
Villa have become the first Premier League club to break publicly with the orthodoxy which has lasted two decades, that standing is too associated with football's bleak period in the 1980s ever to return.
Lord Justice Taylor recommended compulsory all-seating for all football grounds, later confined to the top two divisions, in his final report after the 1989 Hillsborough Disaster. His recommendation was opposed by the then Football Supporters Association, which pointed out that terracing itself had not been a cause of the disaster, which happened due to mismanagement of the FA Cup semi-final crowd by the South Yorkshire police, Sheffield Wednesday's negligently unsafe ground, and the fences at the front of the Leppings Lane terrace.
The FSA argued that grounds, including standing areas, should be made safe, and that if seating was made compulsory, the clubs would raise prices so substantially that long-standing supporters would be priced out.
Taylor rejected that, saying: "It should be possible to plan a price structure which suits the cheapest seats to the pockets of those at present paying to stand," citing the cost of standing at Rangers' Ibrox ground then, of Â£4. With cumulative inflation of 77.1% since, the price of that ticket at the beginning of this season would have been Â£7. Yet prices at the bigger Premier League clubs mostly start at a minimum Â£30 and go much higher than that. At Liverpool, whose supporters were the victims at Hillsborough, standing on the Kop cost Â£4 in 1989-90; the price for a seat this season at category A games is Â£45.
Politicians have been reluctant even to discuss standing at football, because of the association with Hillsborough, but last year the sports minister, Hugh Robertson, said he would look at the issue if presented with overwhelming agreement by the police and safety authorities. That remains a long way off, but the argument has shifted, with the authorities no longer able to argue that standing is in itself unsafe.
Awareness has grown of the standing areas in the German Bundesliga, between rails spaced closely enough to make a large crush physically impossible. The FSF points to the safety risk at Premier League grounds now, where many fans stand throughout matches, in seated areas not designed to accommodate standing.
One entrepreneurial supporter, Jon Darch, has been visiting clubs in the Championship, Premier League and Scotland with a sample Bundesliga-style rail structure, and says he has had an "enthusiastic response" from all clubs. The Liberal Democrat MP Don Foster, who has introduced a private members bill to remove the standing prohibition, is planning to bring Darch's exhibition to Parliament shortly.
Seating has never been compulsory in Scottish football, and last month the Scottish Premier League positively invited applications from clubs to introduce safe standing areas. All the SPL clubs, including Celtic and Rangers, have been positive about doing so, with Neil Doncaster, the SPL chief executive, saying: "I do expect to receive applications, including from Celtic and Rangers, as early as this summer, and the rail system has the most chance of being approved."
Peter Daykin, of the FSF, pointed to St Helens opening a new stadium for this 2012 Super League season, incorporating large standing areas, and said: "We hope football's status as a pariah sport is coming to an end. Our members have always been overwhelmingly in favour of safe standing areas."
A Premier League spokesman said it remains the league's position that stadiums should be all-seat, in line with government policy. "If Aston Villa want to explore safe standing and bring it forward as an issue, we welcome the debate around the table," he said.
Seems to be gaining more and more momentum. Once attendances start to fall at the bigger clubs then this will become a reality imo. Our new stadium should be built with the possibility to easily adapt it to future changes.
Interesting.Its a tough one to call, because of recent tradigies which have happened.A few will always be in favour and a few against. Personally i think if it is done correctly, Like in Germany where they seem to get quiet alot of things right when it comes to football, it could be slowly phased in on a trial Basis.
Im afraid i cant agree with the safe standing, yes if they control the numbers there will be enough room etc and no crushing but i just cant bring myself to ever accept it again, the numbers were supossed to be controlled at hillsborough but the police f%cked that up and people died. the safe standing will start out fine untill it becomes too popular and police make another blaring mistake and another disaster happens i just cant accept it. It could be safe for 10 years before another disaster when police/ground staff get slack about controlling it but a disaster will happen somewhere I just cant accept it as 100% safe