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Rugby Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Other Sports' started by ajeffares, Jan 6, 2009.

  1. edcarroll02

    edcarroll02
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    "Any sluts get fu*ked"

    That's the Whatsapp that Gilroy sent, it's of course inappropriate but sent in a private text exchange with his mates, not to my tastes and a little classless but sent to friends with the expected assumption of privacy. I've no idea what the IRFU are going to do about this, are players subject to surveillance on their private text exchanges? The fact that it made it into public because of the court case shouldn't change the fact that these guys are entitled to some sort of private life and nothing that CG has done is in anyway illegal.
     
  2. GaryMc

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    Agree 100%

    Would love to see some of the Watsapp group of columnists who will no doubt slate Gilroy and expect him to get banned or something.
     
  3. Liverpool-law

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    I haven't read into this, but just a potential factor, are their phones supplied by the club/bills paid by the club or are they their own phones?
     
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  4. Niall

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  5. edcarroll02

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    Good enough for them in my opinion, didn't see any way back for them at all. I wonder what will happen Craig Gilroy now seeing as this must be based on the text exchanges. Huge can of worms opened here about the players right to private conversations.
     
  6. Garrett

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    I disagree Ed.

    The lads were acquitted by the courts, so the courts found them innocent and yet they lose their jobs - how is that justice for them ?

    None of us were at the party or saw what happened, and neither did their employers. The court case heard evidence from all parties and witnesses, then found them innocent. So, why should these guys be punished even further, having already had their names dragged through the mud and be tared for life as rapists ? It's fundamentally wrong.

    If the girl who has accused them insists that she was raped, the I expect that she has the right of appeal. If the NI government prosecuted the case rather than the girl in her individual capacity and don't want to appeal the ruling, then they have clearly lost confidence in the ability to prove the lads are rapists etc. That's the end of it.

    So much for innocent until proven guilty, or justice for all.



    Good questions and obviously play their part in deciding what, if any, action is appropriate.

    If it's a "work phone" then there may well be trouble ahead, if it's a private phone different story imho.
     
    #2026 Garrett, Apr 15, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
  7. edcarroll02

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    Garrett they weren't sacked for raping the girl, Ulster rugby and the irfu were never going to open that can of worms, as I said above (which you seem to have ignored) is that they were sacked for the text exchanges which fell outside of the integrity expected of their players. They had lucrative contracts based on customers and sponsors endorsing their brand, if that's no longer tenable because of their behavior they can have no complaints.

    That their private conversations became public is unfortunate for them but acting like toerags in a position which attracts massive media and public attention is risky in it's nature and they've paid the price.
     
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  8. babbsnads

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    Justice is a subjective term and your actions not being deemed criminal doesn't immunise you from all consequences.If their actions weren't a breach of contract then they'll be paid what they're owed on those contracts.Either way the IRFU are perfectly entitled not to have them attached to their organisation or brand,the brand responsible for their salaries in the first place.That girl left that house bleeding and distraught and however that came about,anybody with a bit of decency would have felt sympathy for her at that point and their messages proved they didnt.People will obviously make up their own mind about whether thats deserving of being let go by the IRFU,but I think they've shown they're not worthy of anybody elses sympathy.
     
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  9. Garrett

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    Actually, yes I did, missed it when reading your post and not paying full attention. I'm sorry Ed, my mistake.

    Obviously, there's a few things there:

    - Sure, contracts may talk about bringing the game into disrepute and so on, sponsors may have certain cancellation clauses, so there's commercial considerations here.

    - Private conversations are just that, private. There are follow on questions like those that Liverpool_Law has posted about above regarding who owns the phone etc, that play their part when we look at the issue of what is a private conversation and so on.

    I won't ask you to respond to this on the open forum, but I will ask you to ask yourself... how would you feel if you were one of the lads in question, were 100% certain that everything that happened that night was consensual between all parties, had since had your name dragged through the mud in the press, gone through the stress of a very public court case with risk of prison time, were labeled a rapist or similar by some in the community, and will have to carry that reputation unjustly for years to come despite the court ruling; then next thing you lose your job because you had a private conversation about how you felt, your anger towards the girl that made the acquisition and so on ?

    As things now appear, Jackson seems to have received financial compensation for the termination of his contract, so that may shed a somewhat different light on his work situation, to when it first appeared that he had been effectively sacked, but I'm sure you take the principal of what I'm getting at up to that.

    That's true.

    But, why should someone have to pay consequences when they have not been found guilty (and perhaps have actually done nothing wrong) ?

    There's the option of civil and criminal courts, the right to appeal a decision etc. As such, there's a legal system there to provide justice, even if it doesn't always get things right first time.

    Please see my comment above to Ed about what has now appeared in the press, indicating that Jackson appears to have been financially compensated for the termination of contact. Things have moved on or been clarified a bit since my previous post.

    The lads in question have (I am almost 100% in the case of Jackson anyway), previously expressed remorse for the girl feeling as she did / does. That said, they may equally feel they are the victums in all of this, wrongly accused and so on. Given all that's gone on since the events of the night in question, isn't there justification for a level of sympathy for them too ?

    Obviously, we'll never know what really happened that night as none of us were there, so this is impossible to really nail down, but I'll just close off by asking you to consider if you were falsely accused of such a horrible crime, and went through what these guys have gone through, would you be angry, hurt, saying some offensive stuff without always thinking first when you think you are having a private conversation etc. ? I think if I'm to be honest with you here, I certainly would.
     
  10. babbsnads

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    I reckon I'd be distraught if I was wrongly accused of rape and could easily say a lot of horrible things,but given the behaviour I'm talking about and the texts that probably got their contracts cancelled came at best before they were actually accused of anything or at worst after they'd raped somebody,I'm not sure how it's relevant mate.
     
  11. Garrett

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    Appreciate the honesty.

    People react differently in highly stressful situations, particular when panicking and fearing the worst (i.e. jail time, being labeled a rapist or whatever, potential loss of career etc.).

    In the event of innocence, I can understand (but not entirely condone) how the guys might have used bad, offensive, aggressive and insulting language, as the anger of being falsely accused took over and stress increased.

    At this stage, I've probably gone a bit too far in terms of flying the flag for the lads here, as I'm actually more concerned with the principal of someone being accused in the wrong, then being dragged through the ringer and punished for actions they never committed etc.

    The crime of rape is horrific, definitely on the short list for the most terrible of crimes, but accusing someone in the wrong of a similar crime is probably almost as bad, when we look at the impact of same.
     
  12. babbsnads

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    Read my reply again.
    How can the rape accusation be an excuse for the behaviour we're talking about when they hadn't been accused of it yet?
     
  13. Garrett

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    As I understand it, Gilroy's message and others were being exchanged the day after the party.

    The formal legal process may not have kicked off (as it seems she didn't report it to the police until the 30th), but from reading this it would appear that she was making it known that what happened was not consensual from the morning after the party, so she was making the accusation from then (and I've no doubt in my mind that the lads had got wind of it fairly sharpish after she first said it, either from Harrison, or perhaps one of the girls she had been messaging).

     
    #2033 Garrett, Apr 17, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
  14. Liverpool-law

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    Munster didn't get out of the blocks yesterday, very disappointing as they can play a lot better than that. Leinster looked incredibly strong on saturday, will be very hard to beat in the final.
     
  15. mushypea

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    Gutted for Munster. Would have capped off an amazing few months for Irish Rugby had they made it an all Ireland European final given the Grandslam heroics.

    That 1st half performance from Racing has me worried from a Leinster perspective.
     
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  16. edcarroll02

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    The 1st half performance should have us worried in truth but the tries they scored were all very poor from Munsters point of view and if we cough up tries that softly in the final we'll suffer the same result, O'Mahony didn't want to get caught up in excuses but a trip to South Africa for the last two weeks at this point in the season was absolutely disastrous for them in my opinion. They fought back bravely in the second half and Racing seemed to be out on their feet by the end of the game. Only my opinion but I believe Leinster are the better team than Racing and if both play to their best in their final (which is far from guaranteed) then Leinster run out winners by more than a score.
     
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  17. Liverpool-law

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    Yeah, I'd agree with that. You won't get tries that easy from Leinster (you wouldn't normally from Munster either but what can you do...). If Leinster play like they can they will win the final handy.
     
  18. Garrett

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    Hi,

    Must admit, I'm more than a little curious to see how things work out given the final will be in Bilbao. The French supporters have the easier journey to make even though they will be coming from near Paris, but I'm convinced that Leinster supporters will travel in force and there won't be a shortage of them. I've never been to Bilbao, gather it's a nice place - absolutely no idea how they managed to get the final of this competition though, other than for the purpose of trying to increase interest in the sport across mainland Europe.

    I'm expecting the final to be a great game. Both heart and head say Leinster are favorites if both teams play at their best, but Racing will punish us if we make any defensive mistakes.
     
  19. stamullenredmen

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    Got forwarded an email from a work colleague today, a well known travel tout looking €750 for a day trip to Bilbao. I priced it in January when the groups were finished and the flights were dear enough. I was in at the game Saturday and there was a fair bit of talk of flying into Madrid and hiring a camper van. Won't be doing it myself sadly.
     
  20. redabbey

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