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Discussion in 'General LFC Discussion' started by Beanokelly, Oct 8, 2015.
Was expecting a match ban, 8000 is nothing really.
I hate the 'if Jose / Pep did it I'd be furious' crap. why would you be 'furious'. I'd think to myself 'hate that f*cker' but I certainly wouldn't;t be furious. If you reckon its something that would make you furious, then don't moan about merson, mills etc calling for a harsh punishment for Klopp as you basically agree with them.
If Mourinho or Guardiola did it against us, I would be more annoyed than I would if it was against Southampton etc. Because its not against us. But do you remember when Gary Neville ran to the LFC fans in OT a few years ago?
The objective me says that this behaviour, Klopp or not, is not proper or justifiable. Managers are professionals who have a duty to behave accordingly. Klopp did not set out to incite or antagonise but this is a last minute goal in a derby match. I would say that everton fans are not happy with it.
So it is, imo, unprofessional.
Mourinho has a history of making inciteful or antagonising comments about other teams, managers etc. So if Man Utd score a last minute winner against LFC in OT, I won't be surprised if he makes a move like Klopp did. And then point to Klopp for starting the practice!!
Would I like it then? No. Would I consider it unprofessional? Yes.
Would I be furious? Perhaps that is a bit strong. I have more important things in my life to be furious about, I suppose. But I wouldn't like it.
And as a LFC supporter, one loses a certain amount of one's objectivity as football is an emotive subjective and not every opinion or position is grounded on logic or rational thought. Especially where Mourinho, Gary Neville and Man Utd are concerned!!!
I think I can honestly be objective here. Klopps motives imo were 100% elation at something his team just did. If Marco Silva had done the exact same thing in the same circumstances I would have no issue with it. I agree the league need to come down on it in some way because you can't have rules and ignore them because of emotion, but at no point did I ever think Klopp would get a touchline ban or would I want a manager doing that with the same motives as Klopp to get one either. Everything Mourinho does after a big win is a fuck you to somebody so it's not the same but if he had the same record as Klopp I wouldn't want a ban for him either,but he doesn't and when you throw in his motives then it's not biased at all to think less of him than Klopp in the same situation.
What Gary Neville did was far more serious because he's going out of his way to incite Liverpool fans in the ground so deserved a worse punishment. But I didn't begrudge him that reaction because Liverpool fans always sing pretty vile shit to him. Justifiable and professional are two different things and I think there's no objectivity issue in saying Klopp and Nevilles actions were justifiable and Mourinhos wanky behaviour very rarely is.
Curious to know, straight forward question do people think Klopp is a better manager than Pep? Forget suited to our club, best fit etc I'm just wondering without bias who do people think is better. Maybe its an impossible question to answer?
It’s a difficult one alright. Pep has got both his teams playing some of the best football I have ever seen but at the same time he has also either inherited Messi, xavi, iniesta et al or had funds to blow everyone else out of the water.
They both improve players with their coaching,they both make teams better than the sum of their parts and neither could probably do what the other one does with the same degree of success.Klopps teams punch further above their weight and I doubt Guardiola could of came close to doing what Klopp did at Mainz and Dortmund and Klopp didnt have the advantage that comes with being a recognised top level player.But Guardiola coached the greatest club side in history imo,Bayern had their most successful 3 year period (trophy wise) under him and City became the first team ever to reach 100 points in the PL. It takes far more than having the best players to do that,nobody thought it was possible until he arrived even though many pundits have moved the goalposts since.
But Guardiola takes advantage of the structures in place at his club while Klopp helps put those structures in place and leaves more for the next guy to benefit from,he also stays around longer. Overall though I don't think you can ignore the trophy count so Id have to say Guardiola is the better manager.
Yeah I'd agree. But I reckon Klopp has the potential to turn out the better one a few years down the road following a couple years of cleaning up the silverware for us
His signings have proven to be excellent. Particularrly compared to signing errors of previous managers.
leads to great confidence and trust in our manager.
Fundamentally I think both are excellent coaches, they succeed at the very basic elements of their job very well in that they make their football teams better and they make their individual players better. They are excellent at instilling their core beliefs into players and getting everyone singing off the same hymn sheet. Both also give their players the confidence to be the players they can be, they have incredibly high expectations of the players but they accept and forgive mistakes.
I can't say who is a better coach out of the pair, both are incredibly deifferent coaches and people. Klopp always seems to manage an underdog, it might suit his methods and philosophies and Pep seems only willing to work at the biggest clubs with the biggest budgets where he will have the resources to do whatever he wants. For me it makes Klopp the more impressive character but I'd question why he'd make the decisions he does, he could have had any job in football and stacked up heaps of trophies with a Real Madrid or someone of that ilk but he took on a fairly cursed Liverpool one, maybe for him one worthy trophy that comes the hard way is worth a million times more than taking on a finished project, either way we're absolutely blessed to have him at LFC.
An interesting end point would be - would I swap Klopp for Guardiola at Liverpool right now? - I wouldn't even consider it.
What that stands out for me in the debate would be that we have yet to see Pep work in club with limited resources while Klopp has proven he can achieve when odds are against him.
Love his response to Mourinho’s commenst about wining trophies...
“Do I have to? Do I have to win it?” Klopp said.
“People might remember that but what I have to do is make the best of the things the club is offering me – that is what I believe in.
“If people say the Champions League campaign last season was not a success because we didn’t win the final then I cannot change that. Was it the successful finish? No, but the ride was brilliant.
I enjoyed it a lot. Going to the final was fantastic but in life – in all departments of life including your job – if only the best counts and effort doesn’t count then life is s***.
“You can do whatever you want but if I’m not as smart as Einstein or whatever, I can’t try a little bit? I will never be him.
“I love the challenge. Make the best of it. That is how I understand life, I learned it a little bit in football. In the end other people have to judge that.”
He's doing the right thing by putting the journos down when they mention the league position, and our chances of winning it, but it's gonna be a tough one for him to continue to avoid as long as we remain top of the table.
Interesting stat on the football weekly pod,
4 or more rest days between LFC games, 2.11 points average.
3 days or less rest between LFC games, 1.87 points average.
The last 7 premier league winners, 11 out of 14 FA cup/European cup runs were done by mid March.
That works out at 89 points which I don't think is enough. However that stat is achieved by working with inferior teams/players than he has now.