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Fsg

Discussion in 'General LFC Discussion' started by bobby benitez, May 16, 2012.

  1. HappyRed

    HappyRed
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    Thats not what I said.. I was meaning that no matter where you go there is a connection to world politics and all that goes with it - football is only one element. But typical of what I see of you.. you're right and everyone else can go to hell! I wont reply to a thread you lord over again so please dont take it personally nads! although that'll be hard as you are giving your opinion to most things.......
     
  2. babbsnads

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    You're a crank and you couldn't even have a go directly,you did it in a snide way that gave credence to a stupid out of context point another poster made,its internet shitbag behaviour 101.I am opinionated and I'll sometimes call out stupidity when I see it, like when someone claims one of the worlds most eminent doctors in his field would risk his reputation in order to do a bit of PR for a footballer. Feel free to call out when you think my opinions are stupid because everyone is entitled to their own opinion,but not every opinion is deserving of respect. If you want to put that down to a "Im right about everything and everybody else can go to hell" theory, work away pal but if you're doing it while ignoring logic and facts that don't fit your narrative,then you'll keep getting called out on it because there's plenty of very intelligent posters on here.
     
  3. HappyRed

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    I wasnt intending to have a go - but you will think what you want. With regards eminent doctors, you could have said that yesterday but you didnt.. All the doctor did is do the test he was paid for. That point was that after a few weeks whether or not he was concussed makes no difference and that the medical check was not looking for anything medical (hence bogus) but for excuses and was sanctioned by the club to 'help' him. I dont believe any of your opinions are stupid, just that everyone is entitled to theirs and do not need constant correcting. I am sure there are lots of intelligent posters on here and they will continue to have intelligent discussions. 'internet shitbag behaviour 101'. for posting a message that you take offense to.... that sounds very trollish but then I am the newbie!

    I am not trying to have the last word (although it may come across that way) but it would be great if you could leave it now.
     
  4. babbsnads

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    Reply with accusations and mad ill informed statements and then ask that person not to respond? Sound.
     
  5. honald_tdb

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    I'm sorry but I have to step in and state that although I can't read the article (it's blocked in the region), there is no evidence to suggest that the UAE government is involved in any of what you are stating. Perhaps there's a mix up between different regimes in the area but it's clear having studied the culture of the Gulf region that there is significant false reporting in the Western media about what actually happens here.
    No saying anyone is a Saint or without sin but I wouldn't like to perpetuate untruths in the post.
     
    GaryMc likes this.
  6. GaryMc

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    I am sure if you dug into the background of every Owner of Premier League clubs, you’d find someone willing to dish some dirt, however if a government is directly involved, it won’t be hard at all to get a list of dastardly things they have done or involved in.

    If I look at the current owners in Premier League. I’d say FSG would be in the top 5 for ethics, fit for purpose in all aspects of their business. The City owners for me would not be in that top 5.

    If you look at Glazer and Kroenke, for me they are not that much better in terms of morals than Hicks And Gillette, it’s just they are better businessmen.
     
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  7. babbsnads

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    https://www.amnesty.org/en/countrie...ed-arab-emirates/report-united-arab-emirates/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airstrikes_on_hospitals_in_Yemen

    If you get the chance you might also seek out the writings of David Conn who also did some excellent reporting on Hillsborough and Orgreave. But Amnesty International,Doctors Without Boarders and other human rights organisations have all documented the human rights abuses that are happening in the region and isn't there still Sharia law court rulings?
     
    #2947 babbsnads, Aug 27, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2018
  8. honald_tdb

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    @babbsnads - this isn’t the place to debate Sharia Law. The UAE is a religious state and therefore some things are done significantly different to non-religious states. However, there is no secret about this, as opposed to countries that pretend to be open and inclusive but in reality are not. Entry to the UAE is voluntary.

    Now, that digresses from the misleading statements about “stoning women” etc. in your post. There is no evidence of any of the things you stated. Before you correct me, there is a war in Yemen but your suggestion about bombing (plural) schools/hospitals doesn’t hold up to Government culpribility. There has been no evidence of systematic bombing of civilians by the coalition forces.

    Obviously, neither of us know for sure what has happened in the war zone but very few commentators do as well. So it’s relatively easy to fire out war crime charges as there’s little way of proving it one way or the other. As you can appreciate, dissecting the war in Syria throws up multiple accusations of atrocities also which feed the relative propaganda for those involved.

    I’m not going to defend any Government to the hilt, merely challenging the particular accusations that were posted.
     
  9. babbsnads

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    Sorry mate but I've no interest in the type of semantics you're engaging in here. Woman have been sentenced to death by stoning in the UAE,hospitals and schools (plural) have been bombed in Yemen (personally i think 1 would be too many),gay people are persecuted and migrants are treated as slaves and are dying due to their working conditions.I'm confident that the human rights organisations documenting these things aren't lying and you're entitled to disbelieve them but there's plenty of journalists backing them up.
     
  10. honald_tdb

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    It’s a free world and you’re entitled to believe anything you read about but I’ve been living here for a year and have educated myself in the culture, religion and politics of the area, so forgive me for taking the high ground.

    There has been 1 capital punishment in the last 12 months. That of an uncle who raped his 6 year old relation and then murdered them. He wasn’t stoned. Yemen is a war zone and there is no deliberate policy to bomb civilians (the coalition forces led by Saudi Arabia are fighting “rebel” forces so it wouldn’t make sense to arbitrarily bomb civilians). Homosexuality is banned - that’s different to being persecuted. With regard to migrant workers, again, it’s voluntary to enter UAE. There are no ships bringing hoards of slaves to the country. Slavery is banned but there is financial inequality - you’re free to interpret that as a form of slavery.

    There are plenty of restrictions here but that’s the law of the land.

    Saudi Arabia is a different country and you may be directing some commentary towards it but honestly until you have spoken to locals about current affairs, don’t believe a word that’s written in the papers. Anyway, back to FSG.
     
  11. babbsnads

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    That's just more semantics mate. I wouldn't dream of claiming to know more about the culture than you but I don't have to in order to understand what's right and what's wrong and somebody living in a country that restricts freedom of press and information often isn't best placed to know everything thats going on there. There's probably still North Koreans delighted about their World Cup win(Im not claiming there's anything like the same restrictions as North Korea)

    There hasn't been a stoning in a while-there's no statute of limitations on that for me.

    They're not purposely bombing civilian targets- I'm sure that's a great consolation to the women and children that have been blown up.

    Homosexuality is illegal- that's the very definition of persecution because you don't choose to be gay.

    Do I consider wage inequality slavery- no.Do I consider withholding a migrant workers passport while he's working in conditions that might kill him slavery,yes.

    That it's voluntary to enter,that they don't have slave ships,that they're more honest about their oppression than other countries or that that the hospitals and schools the coalition they're apart of are dropping bombs on isn't on purpose is not relevant to the point I'm making,because they are doing or have done the things I said relatively recently. And it's silly to say don't believe a word written about the place in the western media,because there's many journalists with excellent reputations writing these stories and human rights organisations are confirming those stories. But I'm happy to go back to speaking about FSG mate.
     
    #2951 babbsnads, Aug 27, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2018
  12. edcarroll02

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    Not to be too critical of your opinion on this but I think inside the UAE makes it nearly impossible to get a fair idea of what is happening because everything that is reported in the area is controlled by the state (this is factual) and any dissent against the state is punished excessively (usually held for months/years without charge before some trumped up charges of anti-terrorism or something similar), any objective measure of freedom of information inside the UAE will be quite damning of it. My sister lives in Dubai and I've been to both Abu Dhabi and Dubai on several occasions and actually quite like spending time there but there's an uneasy balance about the place when you see the migrant workers getting shipped out of the city at night into their communes. It's an amazing spectacle they've built in the desert but there's no denying that it has been built entirely on the backs of workers who are treated as little better than slaves with basically no rights or protection.

    Also just on your first point above about the article being blocked, it's another thing that I'd be very wary of, the the level of censorship is quite startling and I would be very sceptical about the rationale for a state limiting what information is available in a state.
     
  13. honald_tdb

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    I'm reluctant to bite but clearly you don't have an objective view on the UAE. When you've come over to the region and spoken to as many Arabs (including neighbouring countries) as I have then come back on the subject. Your original post I quoted is way off the mark.
    I totally agree and appreciate the restrictions within the country and the region in general. I'm not a fan of dictatorships or religious states but have made a big effort to speak to local arabs and policy makers to educate myself on the background and history of the region.

    I don't want to be seen as overly supportive but the exaggeration of oppression in the country is what I commented on. The reference to pushing "gays" off buildings refers to the practice by ISIS and stonings, whilst remaining a punishment in law, has not happened in recent years but is significantly more common in other countries. The factual inaccuracies was what I posted about, hopefully that's clear.
     
  14. babbsnads

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    The only factual inaccuracy you can credibly point to in my post is the throwing gays off buildings and I'll happily admit I have no evidence to offer of that,just a source that I've no way of verifying as credible,so I'll retract that.But the country does 100% persecute gay people and has done the other stuff I've mentioned and I've no idea why you think me talking to locals would make me see any of that as anything other than horrific,or how its a lack of objectivity to think so.The locals can be the happiest people on the planet and you could be the worlds foremost expert on their culture but how would that change the point I'm making?

    Have women been stoned? Have schools and hospitals been bombed by a coalition they're a part of? Do you know migrant workers aren't having their passports withheld? Is it a crime to be gay? The way in which gay people are persecuted aside,thats what I said in my original post and while you've painted a nice picture of the life you're enjoying there and the happy locals,you've done nothing to credibly back up your claim that I was way off the mark.The semantics of when and why are also irrelevant to my point,which is LFC being used to help launder their image would do untold damage to our reputation and identity.

    While we're discussing objectivity,the UN human rights council has just today said they think the government of the UAE are responsible for war crimes in Yemen.
     
  15. honald_tdb

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    @babbsnads - you’re way off point now re. “Painted a nice picture of the life you’re enjoying there and the happy locals”. ??? Did I talk about my life?
    I’ve tried to offer an insight referencing witnesses and an objective analysis based on my experience but you’re adamant that you’ve superior knowledge and so let that speak for itself. We can discuss it over a pint or two...in a country that permits that sort of thing :(
     
  16. babbsnads

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    Im not adamant I've superior knowledge on the experiences you're offering analysis on.I'm sure I don't and Im not claiming to understand the culture or politics of the region.Im relaying reputable human rights organisations and journalists evidence that your experiences have no relevance to.And yes you have mentioned your life there by speaking about your experiences and to me it came across as you were enjoying it and the locals you're talking to are happy too. If I've misinterpreted that,my apologies and I'd be happy to discuss it over a pint if the chance ever arises.
     
    #2956 babbsnads, Aug 28, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2018
  17. honald_tdb

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    As The gaffer would say - Cool.
     
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  18. ROCCO

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    Liverpool have agreed a new £160 million sponsorship deal with Standard Chartered Bank.
    That’s a increase of £10m per year


    Is that old news ?
     
  19. LFCRebel

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    Should we be looking for more?
     
  20. edcarroll02

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    I'm sure we've gotten every cent we could out of it.
     

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