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Discussion in 'General LFC Discussion' started by Garrett, Aug 11, 2017.
Keita doesn't count for me, 1 out of 3 so.
It's hard to count Keita alright, if you start counting lads that are signed next year should we look at players we're going to lose next year too? Can and Coutinho seem to be the obvious ones.
We got there in the end pal
It seems to me there's issues getting mixed up here.Klopp wanted Salah,Keita,VVD and he got Salah and Keita,thats an indisputable fact.Nobody is doubting that the fact he doesn't arrive until next summer makes the window less succesful than if he came straight away but Klopp chose to accept that rather than buy another player that was immediately available,the same way he chose to hold off for Van Dijk rather than buy another CB that was available to him.
People seem to be arguing against points nobody is making.If its about semantics and players arriving in 2018 being counted as part of next summers window,sound,but it wont change the fact that the business that guaranteed him arriving happened this summer.Personally Id say paying a few million over the release clause now to make sure more clubs dont get involved at what now seems a price for footballers way below Keita's current standing is clever(the price for Salah now looks extremely low too)even if Id of rathered pay the extra 15/20m we were prepared to pay to get him this summer.Whether its clever not to have bought somebody that was available immediately is a seperate argument,as is who might leave next summer.
Did he not buy Ox?
I meant in terms of waiting for Keita or buying a player for now that does a similar job.
I've no idea what kind of player Keita is but do you think that we would have signed Ox if Keita had arrived? I realise that speculating about these things is not particularly useful at all but just a thought that popped into my head when I read your reply.
Its a tricky one alright.We were linked with Chamberlain before the window even opened but I wouldn't be suprised if Keita not arriving until next summer played a part in that signing,maybe it freed up cash that wouldn't have been otherwise available this summer.But without knowing how any of the transfer payments are structured,we'd only be guessing.No matter how we're paying for Keita its still a 50+ million commitment and with payment structures and amortisation,transfer windows probably aren't stand alone when it comes to financial planning.From a purely footballing point of view I reckon Klopp would of been more than happy to sign both in that window,Chamberlain doesn't look like a stop gap kind of signing and he'll have them both in his squad from next summer anyway.
We going to win the league lads starting with a 3 1 win Saturday
I think this stems from the initial question about whether or not the summer transfer window can be considered a success or not. That's why I've mentioned Keita as not counting for this season and by extension, saying the window wasn't very successful anyway.
Having Keita coming in next season is a bit of good news (assuming he's as good as he's been built up to be), but I think it fair to say that dealings in a transfer window are expected to contribute to the current season, not the season one year later
Am I alone on thinking, forget about the last window, it's the next ones that matter. Always looking forward?
I actually think the one after that is more important to be honest, summer 2019 will be our summer
The last window will be analysed for the duration of this season, save for December when people start to get excited about a big signing in January and then get into a rant about FSG in February for failing to deliver again when there was no realistic basis for expecting any players to be signed in January.
In some respects yes you are right, we should look to the future and seek to improve, but two key issues of concern for me:
If we regress this season (for example, don't get CL again for next year) as a result of the poor window just gone, we will struggle even more to secure quality signings, as they simply won't want to come to a club that is not on the up and likely to win competitions
Past performance makes it extremely hard to have confidence in our future transfer dealings, both in terms of level of investment needed to help us climb the table and also, our "mixed" success in our individual dealings (both in terms of actually getting our targets and the quality of some player's we've signed).
Any thoughts on how we deal with both of the above ?
That's rubbish Ed,
If there is an open transfer window, there is an opportunity to sign players. Sure, it's difficult because many are committed to CL games for their existing clubs, but not all of them as some clubs will not have qualified, some will have been eliminated, some players will be getting closer to their contracts expiring etc.
In the majority of cases, money will be the deciding factor, so if we put the right offer on the table then we'll get many of the players we go for.
Personally, that really annoys me. If the club are not held to account for what they have or haven't done in the past, why should anything change in the future? We have seen the last three years of windows, there is progress but not to the degree that you can have any realistic hope that we can compete. That is effectively throwing seasons in the bin before you start. No one is advocating Leeds type spending either, the net spend year on year is nowhere near what you would expect to challenge. The club is making huge money without having to make huge outlays (compared to its size). It is a great asset for FSG. I am not a conspiracy theorist but I do think they have taken us to the level they are prepared to take us while getting an excellent return. Barring a sale or a Leicester type miracle you can forget about success. It is depressing how resigned I have actually become to this reality. Also-rans is our natural place now. But there is always the next window, that'll be the one where we hit the big time (not lose the better players we have of course, that won't happen)...
Don’t get me wrong, I get the frustration with the club and the feeling that we are being left behind. I was more wondering am I unique in not taking up a position of either pro or anti the club owners and how transfer windows go.
I wouldn’t want to sound ambivalent about people’s opinions about the running of the club but I’m of the view that whether we got a CB or not during the summer is irrelevant on Saturday - our 14 players vs the scum are what we have, take it or leave it.
And I sometimes feel it’s a bit remiss of me to not entertain debate about the what if’s of past transfer market dealings. Perhaps I’m comfortable that whatever my opinion is, it is going to make zero impact on those who make decisions at the club. That’s all.
I appreciate that you may have picked a bad example here, but there's absolutely no way that we can excuse away or ignore not having signed a CB, never mind two CBs (which is what I maintain we really need), this season. We had the entire summer, we've middle of the road players so there's no shortage of potentially better CBs to have targeted across the footballing world and putting the entire VD issue aside for a moment, we still managed to splash £40m on Ox, when we could have invested that money in a CB where the need was far greater.
If we end up getting whopped and leaking 3-4 silly goals in the process, will you still be able to ignore the failing of not having bought better CBs during the summer for example ? I pray we don't but it's a risk and will be every time we play a capable attacking team. I know there'd be no guarantees even with the greatest pairing of CBs on the earh, but I'd certainly like to think we'd have better odds than those currently before us.
Not bringing in appropriate quality CBs this summer can only go down as a mark against Klopp and / or the owners, depending on how each person wants to apportion the blame. Our defensive record will show that on the league table this season, no matter how often we rub our lucky rabbit's foot etc.
I picked the CB deliberately to demonstrate how distant from the discussion I feel. I know most fans are fully invested in a should we, should we not discussion and I’m not knocking that. I’m just wondering (and I’m suspecting) that there are very few fans who wake up every morning and are immune to strong feelings about FSG or Klopp.
I believe we needed to buy defenders as I’ve got a start at the back kind of approach and we are well short of having a title winning squad. This does annoy/upset/infuriate me but debating back to the last transfer window doesn’t interest me. Equally I’m not so stupid as to assume we’re going to buy 8 quality players at Christmas and keep Phil until his retirement testimony