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Brexit

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by Dub13, Apr 11, 2016.

  1. Tarabuses

    Tarabuses
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    This is the best summary of Brexit I have seen (from Quora):

    Should the UK consider scrapping Brexit in exchange for the EU returning some of the powers currently residing in Brussels?

    [​IMG]
    Mats Andersson
    , Professional Translator English -> Swedish (1991-present)
    Answered Jul 9 · Upvoted by Mike Walker, lives in The United Kingdom (1963-present)



    That was exactly what the referendum was about. I’m constantly amazed at the number of British people who seem completely unaware of this.

    The UK already had negotiated a lot of exemptions that no other EU country had. Cameron went to Brussels to negotiate even more. He came back with the absolute maximum the EU-27 were prepared to accept, after several months of negotiations. The referendum asked the British people whether they accepted the last, final, no-longer-negotiable offer from the EU-27, or if they would rather leave the EU altogether.

    The British said no to the final offer, and said they would leave the EU.

    The is no more “exchange” to be had. That was the final offer. You rejected it. The deal is off. You went to PC World, you haggled the price for the laptop down to £400, you pondered it but finally decided not to buy, you went home, and now you’re waiting for PC World to phone and offer you the laptop for £350. They won’t. You didn’t accept their final, best offer. End of story. You’ll have to do what Boris Johnson said and buy it cheaper at a dodgy Chinese Web site. Just don’t blame PC World if the laptop doesn’t work.
     
  2. edcarroll02

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    I'm sorry mate but there's an implication in that post that suggests the Brits knew what they were voting for, they didn't have a clue then and as things stand right now they still don't. Most of them voted for some sort of a concept of the British Empire being reborn as well as outrageous lies about money being pumped into the NHS and of course most importantly stemming the flow of Muslims into the country.
     
  3. babbsnads

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    The most bonkers thing about your last point is the EU's own laws allow countries to implement rules to make it harder to enter and/or remain in the country beyond 3 months but the home office chose not to enforce them.Also the immigrants people are most upset about aren't even from the EU which is down to their own home office again.The economy simply can't run without immigration both skilled and unskilled to fill jobs and boost the exchequer(immigrants are net contributors,british citizens are net recepients) but its contradiction after contradiction.

    Jacob Rees Mogg who seems to be the new darling of the Brexiteers says it would be an affront to democracy to have a vote on the final deal. Here he is 7 years ago telling the commons how a second referendum on the final deal would make sense

    https://inews.co.uk/video/james-obr...-second-referendum/?__twitter_impression=true

    Boris Johnson is on record as saying it would be a disaster to leave the EU and the night before the referendum was to be announced had two articles ready for his column the next day,one in support of Brexit and one against because he hadn't decided what way the wing was blowing for his own political ambitions. Rees Mogg has also moved his investment vehicles to Dublin with the prospectus warning investors about the economic dangers of Brexit. Any sympathy I had for the people following these cunts orders and walking off the cliff has gone.The racist retards will deserve whatever comes,it's the ones who will be fucked off a cliff against their will that I feel sorry for.
     
  4. bobby benitez

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    The problem I see with a 2nd referendum is were the EU come into this? Are they even willing to allow one? Do they want to be in a situation were this nonsense is overturned only for Boris or one of the other twats to become prime minister 2 years down the line and call another one? Do the EU really want to be part of a never ending cycle that takes up all their time and constantly undermines the whole project?

    The 2nd issue is the reasons shit holes like Sunderland voted for it in the first place haven't been addressed. The NHS lies and other waffle played their part no doubt for a lot of the undecided but for those with nothing to lose they can't really get any worse off. Catastrophic economic collapses will effect the working and middle class more than it will those on zero hour contracts or getting fed from food banks.
     
  5. babbsnads

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    The EU have already said the UK can call this off any time they want and Sunderland are already realising that Nissan are not going to accept any of the problems that leaving the customs union will bring. No trade deal with the EU will effect the poorest the worst because it will drive up prices and the economy going to shit means less money for every service they depend on.The way things are going the poorest will suffer the most.
     
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  6. Liverpool-law

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    I'm just amazed that the Brexiteers can continue to be so vocal without ever being able to clearly outline any real benefits. That it has got this far almost entirely based on their warped sense of nationalism which is intertwined with a sense of superiority to all other nations. Ironic that the irrational desire to return to being superior (in their minds) will be the thing which makes them more inferior.
     
  7. babbsnads

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  8. babbsnads

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    This is the head of a freight forwarding company discussing the problems that could be facing Dover and British imports/exports. It really makes you realise not just how little people know about the issues leaving the EU will bring,but how impossible it would be for anybody to know because these sort of issues must apply to thousands of different things.Its 13 minutes and probably not for everybody but to take one snippet from it,

    10 thousand trucks a day go through Dover and only 500 need the sort of checks that would be required for all of them after Brexit. Back in the days when the checks needed to be more stringent,there was 2 thousand border clerks. Theres currently 200 who spend their whole day dealing with goods from outside the EU,there's 400% more traffic than back then and it takes a year to train somebody to do the job.
     
  9. redabbey

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  10. babbsnads

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    I'll have a listen when I get the chance pal but there's winners in every situation. It's how many winners there are compared to losers when the dust settles and the north of Ireland is in a very precarious position as things stand, the economy being only part of it. The chief Brexiteers couldn't care less about the north and they either don't realise how much they should or they're pretending they shouldn't,but it would be political suicide for our government if they don't protect the Good Friday Agreement and we've got a veto on any deal,so it's as important an issue as any other for the British government. Weak sterling will be poor consolation for what a no deal Brexit will bring.
     
  11. edcarroll02

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    http://www.thejournal.ie/northern-ireland-brexit-leave-voters-4275457-Oct2018/

    BREXIT LEAVE VOTERS in Northern Ireland are willing to see the end of the peace process to deliver Brexit, a new poll has claimed.

    The Universities of Cardiff and Edinburgh’s The Future of England Study found that 87% of Northern Ireland’s leave voters would see the collapse of the peace process as an acceptable price for Brexit, the Belfast Telegraph has reported.

    It also found that 75% of Conservatives in England would support the collapse of the peace process as long as Brexit is delivered.

    The polls were conducted by YouGov and Lucid Talk between 30 May and 4 June 2018.

    With regards to the 2016 Brexit referendum vote, 44.2% of people in Northern Ireland voted to leave the EU, while 55.8% voted to remain.

    In all, 51.9% of the UK voted to leave the EU, while 48.1% voted to remain.

    Speaking on RTÉ Radio One’s Morning Ireland, study author Professor Richard Wyn Jones said they used representative samples in Northern Ireland, Wales, Scotland and England during the study.

    When asked if he was surprised by the outcomes of the survey, he said that “a lot of the general attitude to the Union didn’t surprise us because we’ve been following this … pretty closely since 2011″.

    “As somebody who grew up with the troubles on television every night … I was shocked about the indifference to the Northern Ireland peace process,” Wyn Jones said.

    “But the UK union, if you like, the indifference to the Union is not a surprise, and there’s kind of a consistent pattern that we’ve been identifying for several years now that even predates the Scottish independence referendum of 2014,” he said.

    The UK is a curious state anyway, but it’s a state where I think the bonds of union are loosening and Brexit is exacerbating that whole process.
    The survey comes as Northern Irish Unionists from both the DUP and UUP are set to meet the EU’s Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier in Brussels today, with both parties pledging to argue against an effective border down the Irish sea.

    DUP leader Arlene Foster and UUP leader Robin Swann will both meet with Barnier alongside their parties MEPs.

    Foster’s party is propping up UK Prime Minister Theresa May’s government in the House of Commons and the DUP has refused to rule out voting against any Brexit deal it is not satisfied with.

    Technical discussions resume in Brussels this week, with both sides racing to bridge their differences over the toughest issues of the Irish border and future trading ties.

    The EU summit on 18 October has been characterised by the bloc as a “moment of truth” in the divorce talks, just months before Britain leaves on 29 March 2019.


    This is scarcely believable to be perfectly honest, the absolute pigheadedness of this Brexit mentality is impossible for me to fully understand. 87% of the 44% in the north of Ireland who voted to leave would rather see a return to the days of the troubles than see Brexit fail. Can you imagine being willing to see your country return to a war like state just to fulfill some pointless agenda of staying a part of the United Kingdom even with the benefit of hindsight to see that most everything that was promised on the back of Brexit has now been shown up to be completely fabricated.
     
  12. Liverpool-law

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    Well if anyone was in any doubt that they are not reasonable people to try to negotiate with, they have underlined it for you. This of course is contrary to the mandate which was delivered by the people of Northern Ireland but when you grew up with generations of gerrymandering to maintain the dominance of one part of society even when in the minority, it should come as no surprise that democracy is no barrier to their way of thinking. 87% of 44.2% is 38.45% of the overall vote, nearly two thirds do not agree with this which is the point which should be steadfastly made.
     
  13. babbsnads

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    Britain apparently trying to put a time limit on their backstop proposal,with the EU(and us) saying there can't be a time limit,they need to sort the border issue before they can move on from it. Just saw the point made that those who have claimed all along it's an easy problem to fix are the ones dead set against promising to fix it. There's a reason the Brexiteers confine themselves as much as possible to the BBC,they know minimal scrutiny of their arguments makes them look like idiots and they won't be scrutinised on BBC. There's also a reason nobody has challenged Teresa May for the leadership yet.They know what they promised is unachievable and they need her to blame for not achieving it. Vassal state or economic collapse has been the options since Brexit won,it was never going to change. I like Jeremy Corbyn but Labour's lack of opposition to this mess has been a disgrace. He's letting Britain down.
     
  14. GaryMc

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    Is Corbyn not pro Brexit or is that one of the myths out?
     
  15. babbsnads

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    He campaigned for Remain but his holding of the government to account on the mess has been extremely poor. I think his feelings about the EU has seen him caught between 2 stools and I also think he doesnt want to be accused of undermining democracy,but sometimes a leader needs to put their own principles aside and do what's best for the country. He's concentrating on the damage the Tories are doing in Britain with austerity for the classes that don't vote for them but Labour need to get back into power to do anything about it and when Britain leaves the EU there will be less money to tackle those issues.He could of guaranteed a win in the next election by opposing Brexit every step of the way and backing a people's vote. It's always harder for the left because they're generally held to a higher standard by the media and by voters and you can't ignore open goals like that.Its 44 years since a Labour party not led by Tony Blair(who was basically Tory light) won an election.The left have never been in government in this country,with a housing and health crisis Sinn Fein are on 14% in the polls and America elected a reality TV personality who's almost certainly committed rape and is on tape admitting sexual assault.
     
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  16. Tarabuses

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    Whatever about not being pro Brexit he is certainly not pro Remain.
     
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  17. babbsnads

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  18. edcarroll02

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    Luckily for the Brexiters none of this even borderline matters in terms of those who voted for Brexit and it never did, it wasn't a vote based on logic or reason, it was an emotional campaign full of ludicrous rhetoric but as we're seeing time and time again you cannot beat empty rhetoric with sense and reason, the lunatics are very much running the asylum these days. The people who voted for Brexit are fundamentally willing to accept whatever consequences will come from it in order to return to a sense of Brittishness, most probably realise at this point that it's a cluster fu*k of epic proportions but damn it they voted for it and that means it should be delivered at all costs. Unionists willing to return to the days of the troubles in order to retain their identity as a full part of the United Kingdom is probably the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard but it stacks up very nicely with what Brexit really stands for.
     
  19. babbsnads

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    I should probably give me head a wobble and stop being shocked at these things but imagine being an MP campaigning for years for something that you haven't a notion about.The world is gone fucking mental,a cafe in Worcester is selling Cristiano Ronaldo biscuits in the shape of a man fucking a woman while Donald Trump is standing up at a rally mimicking and mocking a woman who very obviously suffered a sexual assault.

    There are people who don't care how many people have to suffer to get a Brexit that delivers absolutely nothing of what they were promised.They cant even say its about sovereignty any more because when parliament used its power and judges applied British law they called them traitors and enemies of tbe people.People used to be more discreet with how big a scumbag they are but the current political climate has made them much more confident in putting it all out there using a lot of the same rhetoric the Nazis did.Even the guy who invented Godwins Law has said its not relevant in this climate.Millions will die on the back of what's going on in the world now.
     
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  20. Liverpool-law

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    Yeah, I think Trump has been trivialized too much as a joke figure. He has single-handedly brought fake news into common parlance and has made it possible to blatantly lie about anything and get away with it. The power of the truth has been washed away. That is incredibly sinister and dangerous. Not since the rise of Mussolini has the media been used as a weapon like this.
     
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