It appears to me that Klopp seen potential in Moreno gave him multiple chances but it just didn't work out so Klopp decided he wasn't for him. Maybe go as far as to say klopp realized he was wrong after giving him a go. Anyway he wont be missed and thankfully hasn't been involved much this season.
The quote that I initially replied to literally said Klopp took 18 months to realise what everybody else knew and you're still missing the point I'm making because I would have fucked him out years ago too. But I've been making the same point for 3 years and it's still being misunderstood so my chances of getting it across now Moreno is leaving are only going to get worse. I'll keep making it though,I'm pretty stubborn/stupid (delete as applicable) like that
There's nothing wrong with it! That's why I said "in support of the other argument", i.e. I am supporting your analysis. And I was trying to explain to Babbs as to what ye are saying.
If your point isn't: 'Moreno isn't as bad as some fans make out, because Klopp knows better and he kept playing him' then I've definitely missed it. And I deleted 'stupid' btw. Just making hay while the sun shines. Once Alberto goes, there's no one left to moan about ...Lovren is back in the good books and Mignolet is irrelevant. Might as well have a good old bitching session in here while we can.
It is but it's the the amount of room for nuance that leaves between still not being good enough overall and being as bad as he's made out to be that I think people struggle with, or at least I've struggled to convey over the years.And you say it's probably true,but maybe it was down to xyz. They're would be no realistic xyz if he was down at that level of shitness. The xyz is the mental gymnastics to avoid saying Klopp was a fucking idiot to give him that much football,because only a fucking idiot would play someone that shit in such important games.There would be no reasonable justification and that takes away any room for nuance around why he played as much as he did because why Klopp might not get everything right,he's not a fucking idiot.
Maybe this is where the confusion lies. Everybody has their own idea of what that level of shitness was. Some might say he's the worst left back they've ever seen play for Liverpool. But they would either be grossly exaggerating or they would be 5 years old. Personally, I know he is a very talented player. Not just because you have to be, to play for Liverpool and Spain, but because I've seen him play and I can see plenty of talent there. So when I say "He's shit", (if I've ever actually said that) I mean in the context of being a Liverpool player. He's had plenty of good games and for a sizeable portion of his time at the club, he has looked like he could be a decent left back. However it's those moments where he's looked like he won't make the grade, that stick out. As I said before I think his timing, positioning and judgement were woeful at times. He was (in relation to previous Liverpool left backs and in relation to what the current team needs) shit. I know Klopps not an idiot and I don't believe he was an idiot for playing Moreno so much. He had his reasons and we can only speculate as to what those reasons were. Lovren and Mignolet were in the same boat as Moreno imo. It could be down to Klopps faith in his players, or his lack of options, or something else, but he gave them plenty of games and it worked out for Dejan but not for Simon. It hasn't worked out for Alberto either. So when I mention 'xyz' as you refer to...it's not because I don't want to call Klopp an idiot, it's because I don't think Moreno was THAT shit that only an idiot would play him.
It’s actually quite funny because with his goal at Spurs, Moreno actually bought himself quite a bit of time with supporters. Attacking left back ala John Arne. I think both himself and Lovren were a bit unlucky in that the two of them on the same side is just one of those accidents waiting to happen. Both with the same tendency to make rash decisions at exactly the wrong moment and not able to bail each other out. Both capable of a string of decent games but when it goes bad, it goes nuclear. Will be interesting to see how he does when he leaves the club. If he has a very solid CB beside him that can cover his lapses, he could do well enough.
Dont worry mate - Besiktas are seemingly trying to send Karius back to us, Hendo will still get bashed by some quarters, Lovern will declare himself an Avenger and then have his obligatory brain fart the following week.... We wont be short of things to argue about
Each time I see him appear on the bench, I keep thinking ... is he in the shop window ? Might be the nicest bloke in the world, but not good enough defensively for the position.
Never good enough but better than many thought him to be and never gave less than his best which is all you can ask from anybody. For that I wish him all the best.
Fair play Alberto you did more to keep forums like this one going than most other players could ever hope to achieve. A player who gave his full commitment every time he was selected but just fell short in overall quality for a club of our ambition. I hope you have a fantastic career wherever you end up, I've no doubt you'll be a starting fullback at some La Liga club.
I dunno how he lasted this long at a club like liverpool, a headless chicken when it came to defending , he cost us a games in hes time. Doubt he'll be a starter in any big club. Good luck to him .
That last bit doesn't read all that genuine if I'm honest. He gave his all on and off the pitch, you can ask for no more. And he leaves with a champions league medal around his neck, worth sticking around for.
How is it not genuine, im hardly going to wish him bad luck tbf . He wasnt good enough for us proved it time and time again, but that doesnt mean i have to wish him bad luck does it ?
Generally good luck messages tend to have some sort of positive sentiment. I'm not saying you dont genuinely wish him luck but I think the assumption it wasnt genuine is reasonable based on your post.