V Psv Away Cl

[maloneavic]

Should be a win hopefully but i just dont know what team to expect from rafa.


Yeah we have quailafied but maybe if we won the group we will get a slightly easier draw next round or at least 2nd leg at anfield.

Hope rafa sees this to and puts out his strongest 11 but he might make alot of changes to.

Cant see us loosing it but i think we should go all out for the win.

[kelly jones]

the dagger should be back in and with psv and marseille still fighting for a uefa place i reckon athletico will have the tougher game . hopefully robbie will be back in to try get himself a couple of goals .

[Rover 609]

the dagger should be back in and with psv and marseille still fighting for a uefa place i reckon athletico will have the tougher game . hopefully robbie will be back in to try get himself a couple of goals .

With Sami not in CL plans Dagger is a cert to start Phil.Would love to see Babel play in the hole behind Keane,Desperate Dan on the left,Dirk on the right,Xabi and Tommy in the holding positions(SG stay at home making babies with Hull in mind)Doss left full and the rest as u expect.Poss call up for Cavelieri in goal maybe on the cards?who knows.Pepe doesnt need a rest but wouldnt be surprised to see him sit it out and give Diego the limelight.This could surprise a few and be a really open game,im gonna lob on over 3 1/2 goals anyway for the craic.

[trucker]

Reckon 2 of xabi steve and the chief will sit this out, Lucas will definetley start with possibly Spearing, Arbeloa will be rested Robbie and Babel up front, and Darby will play alongside Agger Jamie and Dosser, Rafa could surprise us and play Martin Kelly, I really dont think Rafa gives a shit if we win the group and has the right attitude in thinking either way your gona play a decent team, rest the lads for saturdays game.

[Daz]

Cavalieri, Darby, Agger, Carra, Dossena, Yossi, Xabi, Lucas, Riera, Babel, Keane. A wild guess but with Rafa you just never know. (edited that as Lucas will defo start)

Think TP is right that Rafa's not arsed with 1st or 2nd. The only reason I'd be bothered myself is not cause of who we might play, but that we would be home 2nd leg if we top the group.

[Niall]

Kuyt didn't travel.

The Liverpool squad have arrived safely in Eindhoven ahead of Tuesday night's Champions League clash with PSV.
Flight ZT4741 left John Lennon Airport at approximately 11am GMT and, after a moderately pleasant flight, the plane touched down at Eindhoven International Airport at 1.30pm local time.

Rafa Benitez's men seemed in good spirits en-route to southern Holland as they look to finish their Group D campaign with a victory at the Philips Stadium.

There were a few absences from the travelling squad, however. Dirk Kuyt stayed at home to recover from a slight hamstring strain he picked up towards the end of Saturday's 3-1 win over Blackburn Rovers, while Fernando Torres, Martin Skrtel, Fabio Aurelio and Philipp Degen are all out with hamstring, knee, calf and foot injuries respectively.

Reserve team starlets Martin Kelly, Stephen Darby and Jay Spearing were also included in the trip to Eindhoven, where the current temperature is a chilly three degrees Celsius.

The Liverpool squad in full: Reina, Cavalieri, Dossena, Agger, Carragher, Arbeloa, Darby, Kelly, Spearing, Gerrard, Alonso, Lucas, Mascherano, Benayoun, Riera, Keane, Babel, Ngog.

[redabbey]

The Liverpool squad in full: Reina, Cavalieri, Dossena, Agger, Carragher, Arbeloa, Darby, Kelly, Spearing, Gerrard, Alonso, Lucas, Mascherano, Benayoun, Riera, Keane, Babel, Ngog.

I had not realised when I first read the names of the players who Rafa has brought to Eindhoven, that the number of players is exactly 18 which means every player will be in the squad tomorrow night. I am sure this will be a big thrill for the likes of Darby, Spearing & Kelly. I can't imagine that the 18 players brought was done by accident. I am sure that Rafa & Sammy new exactly what they were doing.

[m.vat red]

i don,t think it matters much if we were 1st or 2nd in group,i don,t fear anyone with our record in europe since rafa came,its a right chance to have a look at players tomorrow night!

[robbie st leger]

would love to finish top of the group and get real madrid - they are shipping goals to beat the band

[paddypower111]

if we finish top or second on the group thers some tough tough oppostion on each side of the coin so it doesent worry me if we don,t finish top . the main thing for me is the premier and i think chelsea have to put out a strong team to qauify i might be wrong if i was rafa id keep a few key players out until the game saturday were its more important thats my opionin any way lads

[bobby benitez]

Reina
Darby carra agger dossena
Spearing Lucas Masch
Gerrard
Keane Babel

PSV are muck, would like to see at least one of the young guys get a start. Xabi Arbeloa take the night off.

Could be the perfect game for Keane, absolutley no pressure on the outcome.

[Selakovic]

To be honest I think Rafa has made it pretty clear in the media in the last day or two that finishing top is a priority, and rightly so. The above posters are correct in their view that in terms of the quality of the opposition, finishing first or second will probably not make a huge difference (although finishing first means there is a possibility we could play against a poor 2nd place team like Famagusta, whereas I think every team in line to finish top of their group is fairly decent). The main thing, however, is to get that crucial 2nd leg at home, an element which has served Liverpool so well in recent campaigns and one of which Rafa is all too aware.

I would say Darby is the only reserve play who'll start, alongside the other defenders mentioned above. Lucas and Mascherano in the centre for sure I think, and after that I'm not sure, aside from Keane up front and Babel in there somewhere.

[redabbey]

Brilliant journalism in the Independent today. Our probable team contain Plessis

What kind of muppets put these kind of lineups together without doing any research?

[redabbey]

Just thought I would put up a reminder if there is anybody out there that does not have ITV4 tuned into there digibox. The frequency is 10.758, V, 22.0, 5/6 and the channel can be saved using the add channel facilty in the setup menu.

Coverage begins on ITV4 at 18:30
Coverage begins on Setanta Ireland at 19:00

A word of warning though the ITV4 pundits are Robbie Earl and Andy Townsend ;-(

[trucker]

Reina
Darby carra agger dossena
Spearing Lucas Masch
Gerrard
Keane Babel

PSV are muck, would like to see at least one of the young guys get a start. Xabi Arbeloa take the night off.

Could be the perfect game for Keane, absolutley no pressure on the outcome.

Good shout this 1, although have a feeling Riera will play instead of Gerrard/Masch pending on how adventureous Rafa is.

[Juan]

A word of warning though the ITV4 pundits are Robbie Earl and Andy Townsend ;-([/QUOTE]

I wonder will i do the ironing:p

[fermoyred80]

Cavalieri, Dossena, Agger, Carragher, Arbeloa, Riera, Mascherano, Lucas, Babel, Keane, Ngog.
Subs: Reina, Gerrard, Alonso, Benayoun, Darby, Spearing, Kelly.

At first glance bit pissed with the team but hopefully the 3 attacking players get some confidence going

[MutantNinjaSkrtel]

bit disappointed tbh not to se 1 out of spearing and darby to start.think 90 mis of champo league alongside the big boys would have been great for them but in fairness rafa has put out a decent blend of youth and experience-strong enough to win the game and give key players a rest at the same time.gerrard as backup if things go tits up:eek:;)hopefully we'll see the young uns once the game is wrapped up!:D:cool:

[corcaigh]

mighty stuff, its a great mix of youth and experience, if lucas is struggling, lets bring on stevie g. masch poor, alonso on. benny could come on for any number of people. good to see a few of the younger lads are getting recognised by rafa even if its only a bench place.

[corcaigh]

A word of warning though the ITV4 pundits are Robbie Earl and Andy Townsend ;-(

I wonder will i do the ironing:p[/QUOTE]
oh god, cant stand robbie earl, he cant speak properly which i would have thought would have been a requirement for TV!

[Juan]

intresting team,looking forward to see how they play. i have a feeling lucas will play well.
(but i reserve the right,to wear my tin hat after the game;))

[carpe diem]

that yellow for arbeloa was a disgrace lol

[christymc]

go babs!!!!!!!!

[carpe diem]

nice header

[Anthony_1892]

chelsea 1 clug 1

roma 1 bordeaux 0

if bordo win chavs are out

come on bordo

[carpe diem]

great strike alberto

[fernsred]

Enjoying the match tonight - look good going forward with lots of options.

[KELMG]

Bloody hell!!!....where did that come from.:eek:

He`s taking a page from Stevie`s book there.

[carpe diem]

great ball by keane wasnt it,nice finish aswell

[aldo 96]

i think keane is playing very well,nice if he got a goal do. think hes pissed with babel and rightly so.

[red1965]

great result
also added value to some of our bad players champions league goals:D:D

[vodkacolly]

Plenty of positives. Babel and Lucas look much improved. Ngog was lively all night and not afraid to get stuck in. Great for the 3 young subs to get on the pitch.
I havent knocked Keane before but he was very frustrating tonight constantly dropping too deep and then looking to play the ball backwards. He did set up Ngog with a lovely ball though. We missed Reinas distribution, Cavelieri just hoofed it very chance he got. All in all, Im very happy with the performance and result.

[D7Hooper]

i think keane is playing very well,nice if he got a goal do. think hes pissed with babel and rightly so.

Agree, Robbie made some fantastic runs but babel has Kuytitis:p. Decent performance second half. Great to see Darby and Spearing getting a run, but brilliant for young Kelly after all his injuries. :D:D:D

[25052005]

Plenty of positives to take, a few players on the scoreboard who havent been scoring lately, in particular decent performances from Riera, Babel (mixed frustrating with quality) & Mascher was good, well better than recent showings from him.

RE Keane I felt he did well, he turned into people at times and dropped too deep on other occasions but in my opinon he looked far more dangerous when he was lurking around 30/35 yards from goal looking to create something, he made some good feints and clever turns.

Top of the group, great nights work.

[The Chanter]

3 very good goals from Babel, Riera & Ngog. Carra and Agger did well. Keane dropped deep alot in the first half but he had a good second half. Great assist for Ngog and set Lucas up seconds later. Nice to see the 3 young lads get a game and no goals conceded after they came on; that'll do good for their confidence. Lucas and Dossena did alright and well done to fans who ended the night in good voice!

[D-Red]

Very good result, I thought Keane was excellent in the 2nd half.

Great to see the young lads getting a bit of playing time.
If nothing else it will encourage them and the other young lads watching who are yet to make a break-through.

[denashpot]

great win. the 3 goals were decent. lots of positives to take from the game and it'll keep the negative people on this site quiet for another night.

[megager]

Great performance by Dossena. A couple of more performances like that and he will be a fixture. I felt his display was the most encouraging of all.

[edcarroll02]

Only saw the second half and by the sounds of things i did alright because we were absolutely brilliant for as much as i saw (although i thought that Dossena was caught out of position a good few times but he did always manage to recover). Absolutely delighted to see Lucas having such a good game, he was running the midfield and looked every bit the player i was always hoping him to be.
Babel was looking to take people on at ever oppurtunity which was great to see but it looked like there was a bit of agro between himself and keane tonight.
Smashing goal from Riera, great ball from keane and finish from Ngog and Lucas should have probably finished off a great ball played through to keane and three of the reserves lads got a run out, all round fantastic night for liverpool football club i would say.

Top of the premier league, top of our champions league group and i'm on top of the world!

[Garrett]

Hi

Three goals were great to see, particularly Riera's which was my favorite of the three. I was very happy for Ngog, he took his well also ... lovely set up from Robbie I must say (full credit to him). Also happy for Babel.

I was a bit suprissed to see Robbie playing so deep, particularly first half. He's looking to get a few more goals, had a good opportunity against PSV and I'd have thought, would be a bit more forward ... perhaps Rafa told him to play deep first half, to help ensure we didn't give one away or something.

I'd one or two moments of concern, when I saw Robbie & Babel, didn't think they were playing well togeather, infact I'd nearly say Babel should have made a point of passing the ball to Robbie a bit more often, particularly once Babel got his own goal. Maybe Im wrong here. In the next breath, it looked like Ngog & Robbie are starting to click, they'd a few good passes to each other (not least of all, Ngog's goal).

Absolutely trilled to see the three young lads getting a run and particularly, when they all did well (granted, one of them was only on for 10 mins but still).

Overall, a very good result to top the group so well done to all concerned.

We're top of the league, top of our Group with a couple of our first team players rested this evening and Torres to come back yet ... how could we not be happy :)

[Molby Is a Legend]

Great performance by Dossena. A couple of more performances like that and he will be a fixture. I felt his display was the most encouraging of all.

Thought he did well alright, He was caught a couple of times but after the start he has had every game he plays well in will do his confidence the world of good, Plus even the top defenders get caught out of position from time to time,

Things are looking good top of our CL group, Top of the league plus a couple of the squad players getting a run and playing well lets hope we can bring this form into our next couple of games.

We are always stronger in the 2nd half of the season so here is to the double CL and PL ;);)

[bobby benitez]

Good result tonight. Robbie done well IMO, a bit of stick up above about him dropping to deep, but I think thats what he needs at the moment, a bit more involvment in the game. Played 2 super passes in the space of 2 minutes which should do his confidence a world of good. Bring on Hull on Saturday and Jose in the next round if he still has a job.

[MrsStevieG]

Didn't get to see the match tonight but great result obviously and lots of positives to be taken from how we played also from what I've heard.

Top of our CL group and top of the League, wuhoo! Happy days.

[denashpot]

what rafa thought about the game....

"We are really happy to be playing the second leg of the next round at Anfield," said Benitez.

"It's really important to play at Anfield last in the next round because we know that the players can work that little bit harder when the fans are behind them at home.

"I was disappointed with the goal we conceded in the first half because I felt it wasn't a corner. But we showed character to come back from behind and we were always a threat on the counter attack.

"We played very well and there are a lot of positive things to come out of this result. It's always easy to talk about Arbeloa, Carragher and Agger, but the whole team worked hard.

"Cavalieri played well in goal and Lucas and Ngog deserve a lot of credit too. David's movement was very good - he is a clever young player and worked very hard and Lucas proved he is a very good player as well - he has character and quality.

"Robbie Keane also worked hard alongside Ngog. Every striker wants to score goals, but his movement was especially good and he was always a threat.

"Ryan Babel scored another good goal too - he played very well as a right winger today, so that is yet another positive to take from this match."

Benitez also praised Jay Spearing, Stephen Darby and Martin Kelly, who all came off the bench to put in steady displays on their Champions League debuts.

"And the last positive thing is seeing the three young lads come on to make their debuts," said Benitez.

"It is very good to have young players like Darby, Spearing and Kelly come on from the bench in the Champions League."

[carpe diem]

just having a look at the groups and how important finishing top is,chelsea inter milan sporting lisbon athletico are second place finishers,cant face chelsea or athletico,in tonights groups hard not to fancy the scum to win so villareal will be second,winners of lyon vs bayern will top the group,draw will see munich finishing second,if porto beat arsenal at home they will top the group,and it looks like real madrid will finish second in their group so finishing top means we could face

inter milan
sporting lisbon
bayern/lyon
villareal
maybe porto if arsenal get a result
real madrid

as to

roma
pana
barcelona
juventus
lyon/bayern

so avoiding barca and juve ,who imo have been among the 2 best teams in the champs league this term was a must,there are no easy games,but we done ourselves a favour by finishing top last night.

[rebelred]

Agree 100% with that. Dont think we would fear playing any team but obviously we cant play the other english teams in the next round and avoiding Barcelona who are playing great stuff at the moment was the most important thing.

[mrpotatohead]

so avoiding barca and juve ,who imo have been among the 2 best teams in the champs league this term was a must,there are no easy games,but we done ourselves a favour by finishing top last night.

Looking at that, i would have to agree, as you said there are no easy games. Over two legs I would fancy us to take anyone, but a round without a complete epic energy sapping encounter would be welcome too both for us watching and for the squad to maintain their Premier League form. I like how you mention Juve, alot of people wrote them off (including a panel of experts assembled on Sky before the Real Madrid matches) they are churning out the results quite.

Oh and btw, very good all round performance last night, considering the line up and how we didnt really have to win, no matter what Rafa was saying about finishing top.

[Paul]

Great second half performace. PSV never recovered from us scoring in 2nd minute of 1 minutes injury time ;) Imagine the moaning here if it happened the other way around :eek:

Lucas was easlily Man of the match, really ran the show in midfield. (BOOOOOOOOOOOO :p)

Ngog and keane both played well in the second half.

Babel was good but frustrating as ever.

Bit worried about Masch's form, just doesn't look himself at present.

Still a bit nervous for poor oul Dosenna.

Reira is just one cool dude isn't he.

Keeper was average enough with his distribution.

None of the 3 young players looked out of depth when they came on even if the pace was gone out of the game by then.

[Yoko]

We're getting Inter

[Paddser]

We're getting Inter

Does nobody on here know how to use a spoiler!! :mad:

[omerta]

Just voted Keane MOTM on the LFC.tv site - he's leading the poll at the minute - I think it was one of his best games to date in a red shirt - perhaps a little nod from the fans would give him another boost of confidence...

[mrpotatohead]

Just voted Keane MOTM on the LFC.tv site - he's leading the poll at the minute - I think it was one of his best games to date in a red shirt - perhaps a little nod from the fans would give him another boost of confidence...

He was wearing grey last night :D:D
Incidently, why were the kits without the Carlsberg logos? I thought it might be because of a ban on alcohol advertising (was watching without the expert views of ITV commentry to inform me) , but the huge Heineken ads behind the goals snuffed out that idea?

[Liverpool-law]

Great second half performace. PSV never recovered from us scoring in 2nd minute of 1 minutes injury time ;) Imagine the moaning here if it happened the other way around :eek:



Interesting point, I had just texted a mate when the board went up for 1 minute injury time to say that they never seem to play enough injury time at the end of the first half. Only one minute where PSV had scored a goal and there was that flare up between Arbeloa and yer man. It should have easily been two minutes at least. Then the goal went in...!

[Paul]

Just voted Keane MOTM on the LFC.tv site - he's leading the poll at the minute - I think it was one of his best games to date in a red shirt - perhaps a little nod from the fans would give him another boost of confidence...

I just voted for Lucas but keane is still well ahead. Couldn't bring myself to vote for him due to all the moaning,bitching and arm waving he did at players and officials last night. Shame really as it took away from his good performance.

[travis]

Lucas was brilliant last night, the youngfella looks like he's a lot stronger, I like seeing Keane bitch and moan at players we don't have enough of them in the team at the moment apart from Carra and Stevie, the majority of them have been too quiet on the pitch for past few seasons.

[edcarroll02]

Lucas was brilliant last night, the youngfella looks like he's a lot stronger, I like seeing Keane bitch and moan at players we don't have enough of them in the team at the moment apart from Carra and Stevie, the majority of them have been too quiet on the pitch for past few seasons.

Keep an eye on Riera if a ball to him is mis-placed, i seen him eating stevie g out of it one day for over hitting a ball to him, very good to see everyone keeping others on their toes.

[fitzpatrickgary]

great preformance by the team last night
keane really answered his critics second half last night
lucas had a great game ,looked stronger in his tackles and played some nice balls too
Dossena had another good game and ngog took his goal well
Good to see Darby Spearing and Kelly getting some playing time as well
Great preformance all around

[megager]

We're getting Inter

I predicted we would play Bayern so Ill stick to that

[beardo81]

too right, bit more passion and gettin annyoed about making mistakes will do no harm, everyone needs to be performing 100% for a good push this year!!

[omerta]

Keep an eye on Riera if a ball to him is mis-placed, i seen him eating stevie g out of it one day for over hitting a ball to him, very good to see everyone keeping others on their toes.

don't want to drift off-topic but good point about Riera and also Gerrard whose passing this season has been very poor at times...

[mmstack]

Thought Mascherano was brill' again last night. But strangely, it was his passing and putting his foot on the ball that was brill. Trust me I love the man too bits, and againt strong side we need a defensive midfielder. And he is the best defenive midfielder in the league. But against weaker teams when we have lots of the ball, his distribution can let him down. Last night his passing and vision was brill. Nice to see Robbie play well, especially in the 2'nd half. Pity he didn't get one. A couple of time he should have been slid in by Babel and Ngog. If Torries was playing they would automitically slid him in. Great result with a 2'nd string side. Against a {lets be honest} average side.

[redabbey]

I was really delighted when Ngog got his goal last night for two reasons;

1) even if Athletico got a late goal we were going to top the group.

2) because of some of the criticism of this player on this website. I hated it when I read that he was the 'worst player ever to play for LFC.' Rafa sees him ever day in training and a performance like last night should be good for the players confidence.

But before we all get to carried away there is no doubt that PSV were soft competition.

[m.vat red]

great to see jay spearing get a run,he looks set for a good future in football,hopefully with l.f.c

[edcarroll02]

great to see jay spearing get a run,he looks set for a good future in football,hopefully with l.f.c

I wish that were true but i haven't been terribly convinced myself i'm afraid but he's very young and he has a fantastic attitude so hopefully he continues to improve and can become a first team player.
I think Darby is going to be a great little footballer, he's like a young Carra!

[vodkacolly]

Great second half performace. PSV never recovered from us scoring in 2nd minute of 1 minutes injury time ;) Imagine the moaning here if it happened the other way around :eek:

To be fair, PSV scored from a corner that never shouldve been.

Keep an eye on Riera if a ball to him is mis-placed, i seen him eating stevie g out of it one day for over hitting a ball to him, very good to see everyone keeping others on their toes.

Yeah, I remember that. Glad to see hes not afraid to give out to the captain. Seems like a few other players are.

[Selakovic]

I have to say, I totally disagree about Mascherano. I'm a huge Mascherano fan (have Mascherano 20 on the back of my Euro jersey and everything!), and I think he's the best player in his position in the world, but his performances lately haven't been great at all. Thought he gave away the ball quite alot on Tuesday, was arguably at fault for PSV's goal (although I admit it was a bit of a freak), and he seemed to lack the viciousness and work-rate that I am so used to. He didn't seem to win the ball back as much as he normally does. I do, however, believe that playing alongside Leiva made his life a little more difficult. He prospers beside a more attack partner (eg. Gerrard) or when beside Alonso and behind Gerrard (when Gerrard plays in the hole). Leiva's presence placed an abnormal amount of pressure on Mascherano to use the ball to attack, which may explain his erroneous passing. He often tends to shovel the ball onto Gerrard or Alonso when the three of them play together, but this week he didn't have that option.

[denashpot]

I have to say, I totally disagree about Mascherano. I'm a huge Mascherano fan (have Mascherano 20 on the back of my Euro jersey and everything!), and I think he's the best player in his position in the world, but his performances lately haven't been great at all. Thought he gave away the ball quite alot on Tuesday, was arguably at fault for PSV's goal (although I admit it was a bit of a freak), and he seemed to lack the viciousness and work-rate that I am so used to. He didn't seem to win the ball back as much as he normally does. I do, however, believe that playing alongside Leiva made his life a little more difficult. He prospers beside a more attack partner (eg. Gerrard) or when beside Alonso and behind Gerrard (when Gerrard plays in the hole). Leiva's presence placed an abnormal amount of pressure on Mascherano to use the ball to attack, which may explain his erroneous passing. He often tends to shovel the ball onto Gerrard or Alonso when the three of them play together, but this week he didn't have that option.

:confused:

[Paul]

I have to say, I totally disagree about Mascherano. I'm a huge Mascherano fan (have Mascherano 20 on the back of my Euro jersey and everything!), and I think he's the best player in his position in the world, but his performances lately haven't been great at all. Thought he gave away the ball quite alot on Tuesday, was arguably at fault for PSV's goal (although I admit it was a bit of a freak), and he seemed to lack the viciousness and work-rate that I am so used to. He didn't seem to win the ball back as much as he normally does. I do, however, believe that playing alongside Leiva made his life a little more difficult. He prospers beside a more attack partner (eg. Gerrard) or when beside Alonso and behind Gerrard (when Gerrard plays in the hole). Leiva's presence placed an abnormal amount of pressure on Mascherano to use the ball to attack, which may explain his erroneous passing. He often tends to shovel the ball onto Gerrard or Alonso when the three of them play together, but this week he didn't have that option.

I've heard it all now, Lucas our best player on Tuesday night made life difficult for Mascherano :confused: I agree that Masch has been well below his high standards the last 2 months but i'd say it's more down to trips to China and Argentina this season for Internationals. I hope he we don't see him again until the Arsenal game.

[Selakovic]

I've heard it all now, Lucas our best player on Tuesday night made life difficult for Mascherano :confused: I agree that Masch has been well below his high standards the last 2 months but i'd say it's more down to trips to China and Argentina this season for Internationals. I hope he we don't see him again until the Arsenal game.

Lucas's form is fairly irrelevant. Mascherano could be playing alongside Essien or Diarra or anyone, my point still stands: his life is made easier when there is less pressure on him to attack. Obviously I know that Lucas playing well lightened the load, but I still believe that Mascherano is at his best with Gerrard and Alonso in the team. They function excellently as a triumvirate of sorts. Last season, Mascherano's best games came, in my opinion, in the Champion's League knoack-out stages, and its no co-incidence that (with the exception of Arsenal at home, as I recall) we played 4-2-3-1 in all those games, with Alonso, Gerrard and Mascherano. Mashcerano has been rested regularly so far (or forced out of the team by Alonso and Keane, take your pick), so the China/Argentina thing dosen't cut the mustard for me.