Global credit crunch [Archive]

Garrett

18-06-2008, 09:50 PM

Over ?

- you must be joking mate, it's going to get worse before it gets better I'm afraid.

Cutting to the chase:

- Bank's are afraid to lend to each other, given the fear of the bank they lend to going bust on the back of too much risky (primarily US) lending.

- The result of the above is, almost all banks are struggling to raise cash to lend, or protect themselves with by strengthening their Balance Sheet - hence the big push on deposit raising by all the Banks, the various Rights Issues you've seen announced worldwide etc.

- The lack of funds with many banks, means they don't have money to lend out, which in turn means less dosh in the economy ... which in turn will slow businesses down / grind them to a halt, in some cases.

- Several Central Banks (including the Fed, the Bank of England & the European Central Bank) have all previously tried putting funds into the Banking system, but this has been short term and not enough dosh to really make a difference. They all need to do it at the same time, leave the dosh there until confidence returns between the Banks' etc.

Sorry to bring bad news, but I'm strongly of the belief that:

* This problem will get worse, before it gets better and we're stuck with it for at least 12 months

* The problem will in turn, put pressure on various Economies which will push many countries into Recession

* Hard times are coming for us all, I'm afraid to say.

Dub13

18-06-2008, 09:52 PM

One thing I have noticed is its a good time for savers as banks turn to the old way to get cash the good old savers its safe.Some good offers going on the market if you look around now.

Garrett

18-06-2008, 09:59 PM

True mate,

The only problem there is they are paying higher rates because they have to ...

* To raise funds to lend
* To raise funds to shore up their Balance Sheets (and help absorb large losses on US CDOs etc)

Bottom line here is very simple....

The Bank's only pay what they have to, to get deposits in ... & in addition, the ones considered the bigger risk, pay even more to try and encourage those depositors who may be concerned about the Banks.

If your bored,you'll find Bank ratings from such people as Standard & Poors on Google no doubt ... and see how many have been downgraded etc ;)

(now I've got you worried about you millions, don't I ;) >...

just remember - the Government G'tees the first 90% of the first €22k you deposit with each Irish Bank. Other EU Bank's are covered under their own country's guarantee, which can vary quite a lot so check it out ... just incase :D)

sean

18-06-2008, 10:00 PM

Some good offers going on the market if you look around now.

Very true - alot of the financial institutions out there are trying to outbid each other with interest rates which can only be a good thing for the likes of us.

I also agree with the sentiment that the next year, or even more, will see some serious belt tightening when it comes to spending money. Its not going to be anything that folks won't get through like, but expect shorter queues in Marks & Spencers and longer queues in Tesco's.

Dub13

18-06-2008, 10:04 PM

Yes its a fine line between getting a good rate and getting a good rate while your bank/cash is safe.

Dub13

18-06-2008, 10:13 PM

marathonman

18-06-2008, 10:21 PM

If your bored,you'll find Bank ratings from such people as Standard & Poors on Google no doubt ... and see how many have been downgraded etc ;)

S&P mate are part of the problem.They rate companies without checking them and more importantly all the banks that ran into the problems with sub-prime were all given AAA ratings by S&P.
The days of this company having any credibility is long gone.
The company directors of some of these firms are inextricably linked.
Energy costs to rise by 40% over the winter.
stagflation is back for the first time since the 70's and we have no control over our interest rates.
If they are raised it further depresses the housing market and if they remain on hold or fall then inflation and spending both rise.
We are in a no win situation.
A mate whose cousin has just retired from a top banking job in England has said that he thinks the next credit crunch squeeze could be the credit cards as the banks try to rein in the funds they need to keep themselves liquid.
Speculators on the commodity market can buy a barrel of oil for 70 cents down and the food market is going the same way.
One hedge fund head last year earned a pay packet of $24,000,000,000 (yes 24 billion) for his annual salary as he called correctly the downturn in the sub- prime market.
Returning to the industrialists of the 17th century where a few owned everything.
To much to go through, but suffice to say it hasn't even started yet.
There is l money that was made in the good times still been spent.This will soon run out and then we will see a major recession.
Govt is main culprit.5/6 billion surpluses annually for the last 7 odd years could have paid off our entire national debt but no they spent it all because they knew they wouldn't be about when the shit hit the fan.

marathonman

18-06-2008, 10:28 PM

On the same line,I am not major into Stocks & Shares but I keep my eye on things.Do you lot think Bank of Ireland is undervalued...?Two years ago it was trading at €18 and now its down to €6/€7.....if only I had loads of cash to invest and not be bothered about the risk.

You have to look at the reason it was valued this highly.It was making over a billion a year in a growing world economy with little or no risk as it loan to value( LTV) of it borrowings was substantially greater.With the downturn this situation has reversed and is in an impossible situation as the loans in some cases are greater than the value of the security.
The banks have no money to lend as they cannot now borrow from each other due to their financial difficulties.
Not saying you shouldn't buy but just that I think they will go lower as the economy worsens and their bad debt increases hence lowering profits and share price.

Jockser

19-06-2008, 08:07 AM

marathonman

19-06-2008, 10:06 AM

well to be honest i know its alot worse than people think and there is going to be big losses by the end of the year. I didnt want to scare anyone and thought id bring it to their attention softly softly but you lot have blown that out of the water !!! :D

on a serious note i have read some reports recommending people buy gold. I watched gold rise 30% from spetember last year to march this year before it fell back and was kicking myself i didnt invest in it at the beginning. some reports are say even to put half your savings in gold.......what do you lads think? that sounds very bad to me....

Again this is advice that comes to late.Not long ago it was just under 300 an ounce and now it is over 1000.
A lot of money has been invested in it and although it is impossible to call the top or bottom of any market it is again a risk.
Also no self respecting advisor would recommend you put half your savings into one particular investment.
As the old saying goes.Once your neighbour starts talking about it, it is time to get out of it.

Jockser

19-06-2008, 10:19 AM

yeah i suppose its too late now alright but surely it would rise again with more banks going bust? anything else you could put you money to keep safe?

seems like a mods only discussion in here :D am i the only mod who doesnt own a bank or wha!?!?!

marathonman

19-06-2008, 10:27 AM

Nobody knows mate.Some are saying commodities but the one sure thing is ,your cash is king at the moment.It is the most valuable asset as it leaves you open for any opportunities that arise and it is scarce.
Not over by a long way so for what it is worth my opinion is to hold onto it and see what happens.
One commodity that seems to be a sure thing at the minute is food.
The oil/gold prices may come back but the food prices in the short term are only going to increase.

marathonman

19-06-2008, 10:28 AM

yeah i suppose its too late no alright but surely it would rise again with more banks going bust? anything else you could put you money to keep safe?

seems like a mods only discussion in here :D am i the only mod who doesnt own a bank or wha!?!?!

No sympathies for banks as they created this problem. So hell rub it up them.

redeagle

19-06-2008, 11:39 AM

heres a great documentary on it. was on channel 4 a while ago. Very informative, it will leave you a little angry aswell.

there are 8 parts in total

How the banks spent your money part 1

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Jockser

19-06-2008, 12:36 PM

if you like documenteries go to google video and watch "The money makers" its 3 hours but excellent information on banks and their history

marathonman

19-06-2008, 06:29 PM

It would be great to see these guys prosecuted and jailed.They play with peoples lives and think they can get away with it.More brokers should held accountable for misinformation to clients.

Ex-Bear Stearns duo arrested over funds collapse
While in a separate sweep, more than 400 Americans are charged in a coordinated investigation of mortgage fraud Tom Bawden, New York
FBI agents swooped on Ralph Cioffi and Matthew Tannin, two former Bear Stearns hedge fund managers, arresting them at their homes yesterday and making them the first Wall Street executives to be formally charged by the US Government in relation to the credit crunch.

Within hours of their arrest, the Government’s Justice Department announced that it had also charged more than 400 people, including 50 in the previous two days, in a three-month sting operation relating to cases of mortgage fraud that have collectively cost their victims an estimated $1 billion.

Mr Cioffi and Mr Tannin were led away in handcuffs from their homes in Tenafly, New Jersey, and Manhattan, respectively, processed in the FBI’s New York office and transported across the East River to a Brooklyn federal court.

Each faces nine counts of conspiracy, securities fraud and wire fraud for allegedly misleading investors over the true health of two Bear Stearns hedge funds they managed. The funds collapsed last summer under the weight of loss-making sub-prime mortgage related investments, losing about $1.6 billion of their investors’ money.

The Bear Stearns charges represent the first big case against Wall Street, while the other arrests concern those players in the housing industry, such as mortgage lenders and estate agents, who have exploited the housing bubble.

Prosecutors allege that the two Bear Stearns’ executives believed that the funds were "in grave condition and at risk of collapse" as early as March 2007, but failed to communicate this to investors, according to the indictment.

"Rather than disclosing the true state of the fund to investors and lenders, thus allowing an orderly wind-down of funds, Cioffi and Tannin agreed to make misrepresentations in the ultimately futile hope that the funds’ bleak prospects would change and that their incomes and reputations would remain intact."

Much of the prosecution’s case is thought to rest on an email exchange between Mr Cioffi and Mr Tannin.

Robert Mintz, a former federal government prosecutor who now runs the white-collar division of McCarter & English, the US law firm, said: "This is a very significant test case. The charges show that the US government is determined to prosecute Wall Street wrongdoers. But sub-prime mortgages are so complicated and Wall Street’s behaviour may be found to have been so systemic, that it could be difficult to secure a conviction."

"Proving that they knew they were wrong, but covered it up, rather than that they simply got it wrong, could be difficult," he added.

A successful conviction would prompt a flurry of similar cases, while an acquittal would probably put an end to these kind of cases against Wall Street executives, Mr Mintz said.

Susan Brune, a lawyer for Mr Tannin, said: "He is being made a scapegoat for a widespread credit crisis. He looks forward to his acquittal."

Edward Little, Mr Cioffi’s lawyer, said that "we are shocked and disappointed" the government decided to bring against men and "look forward to the day they will be vindicated" in court.

MrsStevieG

19-06-2008, 08:07 PM

Scary times ahead indeed. I defo agree that it will get worse in the coming months and I'd say we're in for at least 2 years of tough going. I have to say as a child of the 80's, we really got a raw deal. Born into recession and unemployment and just as we're coming of age to enjoy the Celtic Tiger, it foooks off and we're back to unemployment and recession again!:(

I personally believe the banks have a lot to answer for. They were giving out ridicilous money left right and centre to anybody who wanted it. Now the banks have stopped handing out the dosh and people realise that they are not as rich as they thought they were and all those loans they took out for fancy cars and holidays have to be paid back, all the while energy and food costs are going through the roof because of the price of oil.
I really believe that much of our "boom" over the last few years was fuelled by the banks, in a way, fooling us into thinking we had more than we actually had. An overly credit based and reliant economy is what we had.

sean

19-06-2008, 11:57 PM

I really believe that much of our "boom" over the last few years was fuelled by the banks, in a way, fooling us into thinking we had more than we actually had. An overly credit based and reliant economy is what we had.

Maybe there is something to that argument. But its not like the warning signs weren't there. Three years ago there was constant news reports that credit card spending was gone completely off the scale, and here we are almost three years later and its finally hit home that people were indeed spending beyond their needs.

Its definitely buckle up time right now, hopefully folks in debt won't be affected too much by the current goings on and will come out unscathed at the other end.

Jockser

20-06-2008, 10:17 AM

i still firmly believe it the federal reserve not the banks who are the root cause. Banks take lead from the reserve. Will anyone from the federal reserve be arrested ? not a chance!!!

Pimboli

20-06-2008, 10:25 AM

Jockser

20-06-2008, 01:12 PM

dont know who this group are or how reliable they are but i came accross this http://www.leap2020.eu/GEAB-N-26-is-available%21-LEAP-E2020-Summer-2008-Alert-July-December-2008-The-world-plunges-into-the-heart-of-the-global_a1800.html
seems like alot of extreme predictions

redeagle

20-06-2008, 01:31 PM

Dub13

20-06-2008, 01:32 PM

Im only worried about my mortgage to be honest as its the only thing that all this directly effects with me as Im coming of a 2 year fixed and it looks like trying to fix it again or event do a tracker is going to cost me €350pm more at the least which has me a tad worried to say the least.

Tracker mortgages are lose leaders in some banks and I would expect them to be fazed out in the next couple of years.You see little sneaky rate rises all over the place now as cash gets more expensive to buy on the bank to bank market,if you are on a tracker they cant up your rate.

Trackers became the norm over the last couple of years but I can see the bans moving away from them in the next couple of years.

callyno3

20-06-2008, 02:55 PM

Thankfully I got on the tracker mortgage bandwagon before the banks decided they were gonna stop it. Its gonna be tough on anyone who bought a house about 12months ago or so, with negative equity in the house.
The leisure industy has been hit badly and will continue to be.
Fingers crossed it wont last too long, but it looks like it will.
Thats the cost of too many people living beyond their means.

Dub13

20-06-2008, 05:35 PM

Permanent TSB have just announced that they are reducing the max mortgage from 92% to 90% and they are no longer serving the Buy to Let market.A true indicator of the times,it was not that long ago there were loads of 100% mortgages available on the market.

marathonman

20-06-2008, 05:42 PM

Talking to an estate agent today in Down and he was telling me he has only sold one house in last 3 months.

wonit5times

20-06-2008, 05:48 PM

Talking to an estate agent today in Down and he was telling me he has only sold one house in last 3 months.

That is crazy lads only a few months he prob would have been selling that amount in 3 hrs let alone 3 months:eek:

Dub13

20-06-2008, 05:51 PM

Talking to an estate agent today in Down and he was telling me he has only sold one house in last 3 months.

One of the big estate agents also announced today that all staff will have a 10% pay cut from July first.

Garrett

21-06-2008, 10:54 AM

Hey mate

Who was that ?

Must say, anyone who ever thought football fans were stupid, should run their eye over this thread ... looks like we've brains to burn aronud here ;) :D

Either that, or else we all work for Banks / Property Companies etc :D ;) :D ;) :D ;) :D

Dub13

21-06-2008, 11:51 AM

Who was that ?

It was Lisney,here is the story.

Friday, 20 June 2008 17:54

The managing director of Lisney estate agent has confirmed that staff have been asked to take a 10% pay cut.

Peter Stapleton said it was obvious firms were having issues with overheads with the downturn in the property market.

He said he had spoken to the company's 150 staff directly, and that the pay cut would apply to all of the employees, 'from top to bottom', without exception.

Meanwhile, the President of the Institute of Professional Auctioneers and Valuers has said that estate agents have been cutting costs by letting staff go for the past six months as a result of the slump in the property market.

Alan Redmond said that Lisney's decision to ask its staff to take a pay cut was not the first instance of such belt-tightening in the industry.
He warned that it would not be the last.

He added that the property market remains quite depressed, and that properties were selling at a much slower rate.
He said that the banks curtailing lending had been a major factor in the slowdown.

Link (http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0620/housing.html)

marathonman

21-06-2008, 12:06 PM

Lisney's had given the staff 40% pay rises over the last 2 years,so not as bad as it sounds.

Garrett

21-06-2008, 12:11 PM

I'm sure they've had some good bonuses too ....

When all is said and done, you don't want to see anyone lose their job so guess that the pay reduction is by far, the more fair approach when a business is not making money etc.

marathonman

21-06-2008, 12:14 PM

Agree mate. Our competiveness has been eroded by excessive pay hikes in the good years.
We need to face reality.

JOE

21-06-2008, 04:26 PM

Talking to an estate agent today in Down and he was telling me he has only sold one house in last 3 months.

From my experience in our office, we have been dealing with alot of purchases, but they are clients who invested heavily a few years back and then sold in bulk about 18mths ago at peek rates...they are now buying back properties for 50-75% the price they would have...financial institutions too are clamping down on mortgages, they are demanding the title deeds to be furnished without delay...even their procedures in cheque issue for example has dramatically slowed down...fact is, the banks are getting worried and strengthening their security department because they know that there will be repossessions en masse...and i have no sympathy for them...they gave out mortgages that the average person could not afford to repay...

reder

23-06-2008, 10:12 AM

I'm sure they've had some good bonuses too ....

I think bonuses are a huge problem and moreover the inclusion of bonuses in mortgage applications. Illegal as it is, all parties seemed to turn a blind eye to this practice. I think I spoke to you about this at the legend's game.

Far too many have borrowed beyond their means.

sean

23-06-2008, 06:51 PM

580 jobs in Hibernian moving from Dublin to Bangalore as part of their re-structuring plans, massive number considering that Hibernian currently employ 2,100.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0623/jobs.html

redeagle

23-06-2008, 07:16 PM

Garrett

23-06-2008, 10:16 PM

Very sorry for those concerned.

(Reder, your correct mate, we did speak on this a bit alright)

rampant hair

24-06-2008, 08:10 AM

Again this is advice that comes to late.Not long ago it was just under 300 an ounce and now it is over 1000.
A lot of money has been invested in it and although it is impossible to call the top or bottom of any market it is again a risk.
Also no self respecting advisor would recommend you put half your savings into one particular investment.
As the old saying goes.Once your neighbour starts talking about it, it is time to get out of it.

Not sure where you are getting your info from but gold is trading $850-$900. It has only ever briefly traded over $1000 - in March of this year.

And no one was paid $24billion for their subprime bets. If you are referring to John Paulson he (only:() earned $3.7billion

Dub13

24-06-2008, 10:01 AM

Ireland in grip of recession - ESRI

RTE (http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0624/economy.html)

The Economic and Social Research Institute says Ireland is in the grip of an economic recession for the first time since 1983.

Economists are warning that Government borrowing will exceed EU limits next year if public spending growth is not curtailed to historically low levels.

The massive public finance surplus, on which the Government based its election promises, will be all gone by next year.
Advertisement

In its latest Quarterly Commentary (read the summary version here (http://www.esri.ie/UserFiles/publications/20080623114553/QEC2008Sum_ES.pdf)), the institute forecasts that unemployment will exceed 7% of the labour force by the end of this year, and that public finances will deteriorate sharply.

The authors say this raises the prospect of a return to net emigration for the first time since the 1980s, with the numbers having to leave the country to find work exceeding those coming here by 20,000 per year.
The report includes the ESRIs fifth successive downward revision to its outlook for this year.

It says the impact of declining consumption, slower exports, the building slump, and the international credit crisis have much been worse than feared.

It expects economic activity will now fall by 0.4%, and disposable income by 2.6% this year, the first annual reductions since 1983.
The implications, according to the institute, are stark.

But speaking on RTÉ Radio's Morning Ireland, report co-author Dr Alan Barrett said the prospects of getting out of this recession were better than those of the 1980s.

The ESRI argues that the Government should break European rules and borrow €11bn to run the country next year. It says pay restraint must be imposed in the public sector, and it calls for State agencies to do more to help the unemployed.

marathonman

24-06-2008, 01:59 PM

Smartarses.
As if we didn't know that already.
What were they doing? Making sure.

marathonman

24-06-2008, 02:18 PM

Not sure where you are getting your info from but gold is trading $850-$900. It has only ever briefly traded over $1000 - in March of this year.

And no one was paid $24billion for their subprime bets. If you are referring to John Paulson he (only:() earned $3.7billion

It was €2.4 billion.Big difference.
My mistake . The value of the hedge fund is $24 billion (approx) and most it gained by betting on the subprime market.Either way $24 billion approx is sitting in this fund form ordinary peoples money.That is some tranfer of funds from the majority to a very , very tiny minority whatever way you look at it.The fund now has $32,000,000,000 in assets.
That is wrong.If they made this bet and it went wrong then again we the public would still end up paying for it because they could never settle the bet and just wind it up and start again.
It was a no lose situation.The small man loses everytime.
As for the gold price it is the same situation.Something that has risen 200% in a short period of time is again in my opinion another bubble whether it is 900 or 1000 an ounce.

Garrett

24-06-2008, 10:35 PM

Amazing,

RTE are now using the word "recession" and next thing, it's the talk of the country .. not sure how many people told me yesterday, this was the first time they'd used the word.

If someone was particularly bored, they could insist RTE prove that the country is in a recession, per the true economic definition of the word (see HERE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recession)) ;) :D

Dub13

24-06-2008, 10:38 PM

And its all down to you bankers....well a lot of it is.Shame on you...:)

marathonman

24-06-2008, 11:48 PM

You know the country's in a mess when you look at the state of the public services.This is coming off the back of the most prosperous decade in the history of the State.
What are they going to be like in five years time?

Tilly

25-06-2008, 10:41 AM

Im in the furniture trade and its gone to the dogs,gone on to 3 day week,is there any one else in the same boat as in builders, sparks,chippes,etc etc....will tis quite time contuine or is it FCKED?

redeagle

25-06-2008, 12:02 PM

Im in the furniture trade and its gone to the dogs,gone on to 3 day week,is there any one else in the same boat as in builders, sparks,chippes,etc etc....will tis quite time contuine or is it FCKED?

Yea, the construction trade will grind to a hault. Many of the builder folk will move off to the uk or at least thats what they say,not that its any better there.

Most lads I know who are doing IT of some sort or anything to do with computers seem to be getting hired.

MrsStevieG

25-06-2008, 12:26 PM

Yea, the construction trade will grind to a hault. Many of the builder folk will move off to the uk or at least thats what they say,not that its any better there.

Most lads I know who are doing IT of some sort or anything to do with computers seem to be getting hired.

Hmm I don't know I thought alot of the "dispensible" (spl) services like IT (in some cases),marketing, advertising,PR - would be in trouble. Companies won't be splashing out the money they were on these services so I thought there would be some especially tough times ahead for those sectors as they will be first to be hit by cutbacks.
My own job is fairly safe (touch wood) and in fact, believe it or not,the down turn actually benefits us in a way!. But my bf is in an area where they depend on advertising etc and there have been cut backs and people let go in his job.
Some sh*t times ahead

Liverpool-law

25-06-2008, 03:08 PM

Conveyancing has gone very quiet. I know one auctioneer firm that had close to 30 people working there start of last year. They have gradually been letting staff go for the past year. Last week they left more go and they are now down to 9 staff. Some of the last ones left go had been working there for 8 years... serious downturn.

Martin88

25-06-2008, 05:48 PM

The current downturn and lay offs remind me of a lad who shamed his father 20 years ago. He was young at the time and went with his father to the dole office. While in queue he tugged on his father's shirt and said "da, are ya going back to work after lunch?". The rest of the men (all wearing working clothes themselves) were in stitches.

In all seriousness things do look like getting worse over the next 6-12 months with unemployment rates gradually rising. I suppose one up point will be the drop in property prices for first time buyers.

byrnetred

25-06-2008, 06:28 PM

Martin88

25-06-2008, 06:54 PM

along with higher deposits and higher interest rates, it will make it so much easier for them...

It works both ways. Deposits and interest rates will be higher but for some:
Irish Independent.
For some of those seeking to buy a house, the slump in house prices is most welcome. For many first-timer buyers, a drop of 10 per cent and the absence of stamp duty means for their €500,000 or €600,000 they are now able to consider houses they could only dream of a year ago.
However,
Irish Independent.
credit is far less available than it was 12 or 24 months ago. Banks across the board have tightened up on their lending criteria, with the aforementioned death of 100 per cent mortgages.
On balance the forecast isn't completely bleak!

marathonman

25-06-2008, 07:56 PM

In all seriousness things do look like getting worse over the next 6-12 months with unemployment rates gradually rising. I suppose one up point will be the drop in property prices for first time buyers.

Unfortunately I don't see it as much help to first time buyers in the current climate because in the boom the bank were giving out money up to 10 times salary in some cases. This I reckon will be stricter and back to the old yardstick of 2 1/2 to 3 times salary which even with the fall in prices will not buy much.
Also the banks will be picking and choosing customers and those that do qualify will be paying higher interest rates than this time last year as competition in the market has dried up and also the rates for banks borrowing money have risen.

Martin88

25-06-2008, 08:03 PM

Unfortunately I don't see it as much help to first time buyers in the current climate because in the boom the bank were giving out money up to 10 times salary in some cases. This I reckon will be stricter and back to the old yardstick of 2 1/2 to 3 times salary which even with the fall in prices will not buy much.
Also the banks will be picking and choosing customers and those that do qualify will be paying higher interest rates than this time last year as competition in the market has dried up and also the rates for banks borrowing money have risen.

That's true. I jumped the gun a bit by taking the dropping house values at face value without weighing up the other implications.

Garrett

25-06-2008, 09:03 PM

Guys

Given the current state of the economy and the strong possibility of tougher times ahead for us all, I'd strongly suggest any of you with surplus money start lobbing it into reducing your debts - particularly, those of you with credit card balances o/s (eh, assuming they are not on zero % promo rates ;)), term loans etc.

After that, start trying to build up some cash in various (higher interest rate), savings accounts, it's a time for being dull & conservative so perhaps go easy on the new flash cars and seven foreign holidays for a while ... just incase.

Remember, influence what you can ... ignore (but be mindfull), of what you can't ;)

I'm sorry to say it, but I've little doubt there will be a lot more companies announcing layoffs over the rest of this year and into next. Initially, its the construction industry which gets hit but shortly thereafer it will be:

- suppliers of goods & services to the construction industry (ranging from estate agents, surveyors, architects, banks, insurance companies, concrete / brick manufacturers etc)

then ...

- marketing / advertising & research, customer service, IT departments

then ....

probably sales staff etc.

sean

01-07-2008, 01:43 PM

stamullenredmen

01-07-2008, 08:49 PM

went for a job interview yesterday where they were looking a yardman with a forklift licence.i was told i was exactly who he wanted and then offered me 400 a week before tax.considering id spunk 200 of that on my mortgage weekly and not taking into account my credit card and credit union its bloody derisory.no wonder the country is entering recession.

rampant hair

02-07-2008, 04:35 PM

On the same line,I am not major into Stocks & Shares but I keep my eye on things.Do you lot think Bank of Ireland is undervalued...?Two years ago it was trading at €18 and now its down to €6/€7.....if only I had loads of cash to invest and not be bothered about the risk.

'Catching a falling knife' springs to mind. You are getting a dividend of around 10% at these levels and BOI have said that they would maintain their dividend policy. On face value looks like a no brainer.

But if they do reduce the dividend, it will look expensive at these levels. They are heavily exposed in property and construction lending.

The ISEQ is dropping 1.5% to 3.5% on a daily basis at the moment. People are selling for a reason

marathonman

02-07-2008, 06:52 PM

'Catching a falling knife' springs to mind. You are getting a dividend of around 10% at these levels and BOI have said that they would maintain their dividend policy. On face value looks like a no brainer.

But if they do reduce the dividend, it will look expensive at these levels. They are heavily exposed in property and construction lending.

The ISEQ is dropping 1.5% to 3.5% on a daily basis at the moment. People are selling for a reason

They will not and cannot maintain that dividend given the current market conditions.Nobody will be told this but the more likely scenario will be a massive reduction and a share optio scheme which will dilute the value even more.
The main sellers are the international institutions who see Ireland as been to exposed to much to the property sector and this in turn drives down sentiment worlwide towards the ISEQ.

WexRed

02-07-2008, 08:19 PM

As usual you see the real belt tightening or evolving economic changes on the ground well well before the press or stats will reflect it. From top down interest rate rises and banks tightening lending policies of course have a major predictable effect but I think a whole generation had already woken up to fact that they were overextended and not prepared for a drizzly day let alone a rainy one.

As someone who came out of college in roaring Celtic Tiger times and experienced the traumatic effect of the dot com bubble bursting I'd already received my education on the forever cyclic nature of boom and bust. Time out of work and seeing ex-colleague's leave their industry they'd spent years getting qualified in for anything to pay their way thought me to never ever take for granted your paycheck. The next lot are only experiencing it for the first time but unfortunately had the worse timing coming in at the height of costs, housing and other.

Anyone I know in the construction industry, plenty, said it was over at least three years ago. Many tout for handy jobs now when you couldn't book them for love nor money before. I convinced my brother to not go for carpentry when doing is Junior two years ago pointing out my mate's qualified and experienced brother was out of work with a mortgage and kid to support. He's, hopefully, off to college in a few months with a good Leaving that he wouldn't have been arsed getting if it still looked rosey two years ago.

The house price drop was evident when the supposed value of property was being quoted at the effectively virtual asking price. A price that was being asked for but wasn't being given. The holding out on not facing up to the market realities and lowering prices was done for as long as people's cash flows allowed by seller's, estate agents and builders. The latter have hefty cash flows hence the (I heard ?) 40k empty apt units in Dublin but maybe even they'll realise now it'll be a long wait.

A mate bought a house recently. I'll give it to him he followed the golden rule and bought in a good central location but I don't see why prices won't fall in the next 12 months by at least the same value as in the last. House owners I know have suffered evaluation loses of 30k, 50k and 60k and these are not anywhere near +500k houses more like 280k to nearly 400k.

WexRed

02-07-2008, 08:31 PM

The ISEQ is dropping 1.5% to 3.5% on a daily basis at the moment. People are selling for a reason

I hope all these crap pension fund managers learned from their previous fcuk up of having 20% of managed funds in Irish stock. Probably not.

We had a recent review of our work pensions fund and the guy got crucified.

The lowest risk funds, government bonds, lost money which was meant to be well nigh impossible ? The most profitable markets commodities, emerging markets weren't being invested in. While though the recent slump in the funds were caused partly by the construction slump they didn't seem to have benefited from the housing boom enough.

A tracker bond would perform better than a so called managed fund (or equity etc.) which lags well behind inflation but you essentially can't put your tax free savings into it (incl employer contribution). It dawned on me are the fund managers 'expected' by the government and their own employers to put a hefty portion of that tax free money back into the Irish market and the financial sector they actually hail from ?

WexRed

02-07-2008, 08:33 PM

Just on some observation we were talking about in work today its been evident for a long time that people are tightening the belts like.....

- Shopping around. There's no real snob factor against Lidl/Aldi, the closet door has flung open ;) We get accused of not shopping around but in a lot of cases you're only wasting effort against a cartel. With the exception of the aforementioned shops the rest are all a rip off taking away with one hand what they give with another. The North vs South price survey last week was hardly shocking news. The standard of our bog rolls might have gone down and our toiletry and detergent containers gone to monstrous economical sizes but don't tell me people don't shop around. Like does anybody actually buy CDs/DVDs in a high street shop anymore rather than download or at least (slightly more legally) buy online at half the price. Then there's the massive explosion in shopping trips to NY with the exchange rate, thats going to great lengths though the fuel crisis may put an end to that.

- The post Christmas slump for pubs and restaurants now lasts till March and even starts before New Year's. Any workers in that trade including suppliers reckon things haven't been bad in well over a decade. I was out for a rare Saturday even meal a few weeks back in a previously popular restaurant and we had excellent service as not many others there. You see it in the Sunday lunch trade too. People are deffo more discerning and won't take automatic 15% service charges for bad service/food.

- A majority of the adult population has taken a leaf out of the students' handbook and drink at home far more often (alebit in front of their plasmas, home entertainment systems, laptops, piped footie all from their lazy boys.........but hey you have to have something to show for the good times).

- Alarmingly people, whilst of course making an exception for their kids, would nearly have to be dying to go to the doctor at 60 euro a pop. Early diagnosis of anything serious is well out the window.

- Holidays are often in Sunny Santry, Lovely Lucan or got cheap on budget travel a week in advance

- The 2nd car ! The biggest sign of belt tightening is deffo when the costs of filling up, servicing, taxing and insuring the 'handy' 2nd motor doesn't add up and couples put up with the inconvenience of having to organise their schedules around each or, shock horror, use public transport (where it exists which isn't always an option to say the least). When you see true car pooling you'll know the bullet has really bitten.

.....end of splurge :D

marathonman

02-07-2008, 09:21 PM

The best sign I have seen and heard that there is a recession is that the middle classes are proud to say that they shop at Aldi/Lidl etc and bout how much they saved.
Six months ago they would have been embarassed to be seen or say they shopped at the discounters.It is fashionable now to talk about the bargains and how much they have saved.
Clowns.
Previously they would be bragging about how much their 50' plasma,new 4by 4 and their foreign holidays.
Oh, how the mighty have fallen.

Pimboli

02-07-2008, 10:49 PM

There is a Lidl at the end of my road and the amount of times I see 07 & 08 Mercs and BMWs go in there is unreal and this was 'pre-recession' talk

Food is food the fact is if ther Germans went shopping in Tesco or Dunnes our food would probably look crap to them.

Apart from their funky strange meats I would eat most things Lidl or Aldi sell and their booze is pretty cheap and have shopped there for over 1 1/2 years since we moved near one, no big deal.

WexRed

02-07-2008, 11:28 PM

There is a Lidl at the end of my road and the amount of times I see 07 & 08 Mercs and BMWs go in there is unreal and this was 'pre-recession' talk

Yeah I sometimes find it hard to fit the 4x4 in just two spots

Food is food the fact is if ther Germans went shopping in Tesco or Dunnes our food would probably look crap to them.

Me too !

Apart from their funky strange meats I would eat most things Lidl or Aldi sell and their booze is pretty cheap and have shopped there for over 1 1/2 years since we moved near one, no big deal.

Ya cheapo ;) What would the minister for "we should shop around but just not up north or online because even though the exact same goods in the exact same shop are 30% cheaper we can't actually tax you there" consumer affairs think of that huh

Following on from which I wonder does the Tesco deliver service go south of the border from the North ? That would be an interesting experiment.

I had previously noticed the de facto sterling to euro exchange rate in UK chains over here were variable. That is they varied from 1.5 to 2.0 ! As the exchange rate has increasingly narrowed the discrepancy has become galling but people need to vote with their feet/wallets to stop the rip-off merchants.

I also noticed years ago that when using the likes of cdwow that ordering from the UK site in GBP was considerably cheaper than ordering on the Irish site in Euros. For the same product, shipped from Hong Kong, to the same address. The conversion was done either on the site before payment or by your CC company. Either way it was about 15%-20% cheaper. Once this was excaberated by the exchange rate you could no longer order off the UK site or in GBP depending (cdwow, play.com, bangcd) for Irish delivery addresses. You're forced to use the Irish site or euro version of UK site with seriously sometimes 50% markup. Its amazing how even something that was seen as the ultimate consumer saver tries to rip you off in the end.

rampant hair

03-07-2008, 07:22 AM

They will not and cannot maintain that dividend given the current market conditions.Nobody will be told this but the more likely scenario will be a massive reduction and a share optio scheme which will dilute the value even more.
The main sellers are the international institutions who see Ireland as been to exposed to much to the property sector and this in turn drives down sentiment worlwide towards the ISEQ.

http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2008/05/25/story33088.asp

Not so sure it is the large institutions selling either as the volumes have been relatively low lately

rampant hair

03-07-2008, 07:31 AM

I hope all these crap pension fund managers learned from their previous fcuk up of having 20% of managed funds in Irish stock. Probably not.

We had a recent review of our work pensions fund and the guy got crucified.

The lowest risk funds, government bonds, lost money which was meant to be well nigh impossible ? The most profitable markets commodities, emerging markets weren't being invested in. While though the recent slump in the funds were caused partly by the construction slump they didn't seem to have benefited from the housing boom enough.

A tracker bond would perform better than a so called managed fund (or equity etc.) which lags well behind inflation but you essentially can't put your tax free savings into it (incl employer contribution). It dawned on me are the fund managers 'expected' by the government and their own employers to put a hefty portion of that tax free money back into the Irish market and the financial sector they actually hail from ?

Pension funds are a joke. You could manage them yourself. They are governed by regulations that force them to invest a percentage of their portfolio in Irish stocks. They are index trackers rather than stock selectors. Their fees are extortionate too.

Your government bond fund is losing money because of inflation. As inflation rises bond prices fall (the value of money is being eroded)

ISEQ down 2.5% on the open again. Good lick :cool:

marathonman

03-07-2008, 08:43 AM

http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2008/05/25/story33088.asp

Not so sure it is the large institutions selling either as the volumes have been relatively low lately

Would you really believe anything the banks would tell you?
Do you honestly believe that the banks will pay out a dividend in double figures which is double the interest rate at present and is only ever paid out by a company with large profits.
Profits will fall which I am sure you will agree.The banks are trying to raise cash by offering lucrative interest rates simply because unlike before they cannot borrow from anywhere else.It is a self financing business at present which then is profitable due to a lack of competitive competition within the borrowing sector.They are not going to simply give away the funds they require for growth/profits and ultimately a rising share price
If the banks stated that dividends would be more realistic levels next year then share price would fall maybe another10 to 20 % as a large number of investors are only holding on them for this reason.
If you or anybody else believes this then I would suggest you wait for a couple of months hoping that the markets will stabilise and buy as many shares as you can because if you are right then it is an unbelievable opportunity for making money.It then becomes a no brainer.Even if the price falls it is unlikely to fall another 10 or 11 %.
On the other hand I will lay any money that the dividend will at best be halved and if the instability continues you may see no dividend at all and a dilution of shares.
As for the international institutions not selling.This was the main reason that the ISEQ fell so much on Tuesday due to the sell off by them as confidence in the Irish market has deteriorated due to the heavy reliance on the construction sector by the Irish economy.

rampant hair

03-07-2008, 09:19 AM

It's not a matter of what I believe, they have to maintain the dividend for the sake of their share price.

The divividend yield is a function of your share price transaction, nothing to do with the rate of interest. Its is a relative number, not absolute.

Plenty of companies have double figure dividends (Barclays for example), they have to better the rate of interest - it's the risk premium for holding the stock rather than cash.

They have no reason to lie to investors, in fact it would be counterproductive. They will still pay the 40-45% of earnings. The risk to potential investors is that 40% of nothing is nothing.

marathonman

03-07-2008, 09:35 AM

It's not a matter of what I believe, they have to maintain the dividend for the sake of their share price.

The divividend yield is a function of your share price transaction, nothing to do with the rate of interest. Its is a relative number, not absolute.

They have no reason to lie to investors, in fact it would be counterproductive. They will still pay the 40-45% of earnings. The risk to potential investors is that 40% of nothing is nothing.

The share price at it's current levels leave it ripe for takeover and an uncertain future with regards to dividends.
I just think that the dividends will be scaled back and the investors will be assured at the the AGM that this is a temporary measure.
They will be taking the view that they need stability in the share price so why rock the boat.
Do you honestly believe that a bank would not lie to it's shareholders.
Look at the recent casualties.It's all about cover ups and damage limitations.The only time you will ever get the truth from a bank or similar is if they have no alternative.
The financial institutions knew this credit crunch was coming long before we knew but did nothing about it. There was to much money to be made by covering it up.

rampant hair

03-07-2008, 10:00 AM

marathonman

03-07-2008, 10:10 AM

If it's ripe for a takeover then it's another reason to buy.

Banks as a rule do not lie to their shareholders. It is not worth it for them. Markets punish companies for lack of transparency and misleading statements.

It's hardly been a cover up, Northern Rock? Bear Stearns? They reaped what they sowed.

The problem is that they can't value the CDO's. Banks do not know exactly what losses eachother has on their book and are afraid to lend to eachother on that basis.

They haven't made any money from this. It's been a disaster for them.

The offshore accounts is classic example.Lied to it's customers with the full knowledge of the Central Bank and the Govt in the 80's.
All they do in any negative situation where they are cornered is make a statement and maybe an apology on its error and the markets will accept this to a large degree if it is not critical to it's profits .An example of this is Rusnak's near €700 million fraud in 02.It was not critical to profits but merely decreased them and the stock soon recovered.
All takeovers are not necessarily good for the shareholder.
Only reason N.R,B.S etc came clean was because they had no choice.Parmalat and a number of other companies never left shareholders with any options and never came clean.

marathonman

03-07-2008, 10:22 AM

If it's ripe for a takeover then it's another reason to buy.

Takeovers rarely work for shareholders

June 10, 2008
Page 1 of 2
The admission by Foster's chairman David Crawford that the company's wine acquisitions had failed is a timely reminder that most big acquisitions do not work for shareholders.

They work a treat for bankers and lawyers and other fee-takers.

The brokers and the press adore a big takeover for a trade and a story. Executives can't help themselves but roll the dice to make a bigger company and beat the opposition. Besides, it's not their money, and the numbers can be muddied for a couple of years with accounting chicanery while "synergies'' are supposedly still being achieved. If earnings have to be "rebased'' - after a "strategic review'' it can be put down to "extraneous" factors.

Foster's is by no means alone in ballsing up acquisitions. It is, in fact, in the majority. While Incitec's spectacular purchase of WMC's fertiliser business paid for itself in a year, the likes of Computershare and Worley and Metcash have forged a savvy expansion path - and a rash of deals in the resources sector such as Xstrata's bid for MIM, which had the luck of rising commodities prices - are feted as examples of value creation, just as many end up dogging shareholders for years.

Analysts do studies on this from time to time. Just looking about the top 100, though, is evidence enough.

Most "aggregation" plays, that is companies that go on acquisition sprees using their high-priced scrip to buy lower-rated companies, tend to blow up at some point. And in general, most big acquisitions fail to generate adequate returns.

Look at the experience of Australian banks offshore, the building materials companies in the US - before CSR's Rinker and James Hardie finally came good. Then there's Toll's bid for Patrick and the present plight of Asciano, and the uber-acquisitive satellites of Macquarie and Babcock which are now under pressure, not to mention their shadows Allco and MFS. In property there is Centro, whose disastrous US foray hastened the end.

In insurance, the list is long and illustrious, stretching back from AMP's bid for GIO, through to HIH's bid for FAI to the more recent British acquisition by IAG. Like Foster's Berringer, IAG was dealing with sharp private equiteers on the other side of the deal, and was dudded. The big lumbering corporates are often sold a pup by private equity, which often has already stripped out the cash and run costs down to breaking point.

The jury remains out on Suncorp's acquisition of Promina but $7.9 billion is now looking way over the top, having been struck at the peak of the insurance cycle. About $6 billion of goodwill still lingers on the Suncorp balance sheet.

Elsewhere, Amcor's big ticket expansion into Europe a few years ago further proves the thesis.

The armies of PR people and advisers at the revelation of a big acquisition, not to mention the carefully manicured pre-prepared spiels concocted for analysts and institutions, mean most deals are embraced at the outset. The market loves a deal, management loves a deal.

In Foster's case, it simply paid too much for the acquisitions of leading Australian winemaker Southcorp and US winemaker Berringer Blass and eked out too little a return. Who knows how much was blown up in fees from these two corporate plays - $300 million perhaps?

Billions of dollars have been smoked on the altar of executive caprice and the company's declaration of $600 million to $700 million in writedowns barely touches the sides. There will be much more to come, although it is on the cards that some kind of restructure or spin-off could see Foster's move ahead from here. It's not O'Hoy's fault. He doesn't operate alone, yet the board of Foster's decided it was in shareholders' interests to make a change. He is the scalp.

There will be more to come when new management does its inevitable strategic review and swings the axe around. In both cases Foster's paid too much for its big acquisitions and eked out too little a return.

It should be stressed that wine stocks have been hammered by the global grape glut for three years.

Still, Berringer in particular was a disaster. It underperformed its US peers. Having splashed about $3 billion in capital over five years on this business, Foster's is staring at a paltry return this year of barely $US200 million, according to Merrill Lynch's numbers.

As for the acquisition of Southcorp, O'Hoy made the near fatal mistake of discounting some of Southcorp's famous flagship brands and tore up earnings for a time, particularly in Britain.

Merrill's analyst, David Errington, has been scathing on the Foster's strategy and has led calls for change, and O'Hoy's scalp.

It is worth noting that Errington has also been the most critical analyst on Wesfarmers' acquisition of Coles. If he has this one right too, Wesfarmers' shareholders had better watch out as its boss, Richard Goyder, has more or less bet the company on Coles at the top of the business cycle, employing shovel-loads of debt to boot.

O'Hoy lost the confidence of institutional investors last year when it became painfully clear his multi-beverage strategy had failed. The thinking behind this was, broadly, that if you had more beverages in your portfolio - read beer as wine - you would build more market power with distributors and could therefore charge more for your product.

Up against the formidable market might of retailing duopoly Coles and Woolies, which has moved into pubs and bottle'os en masse, this was always a big ask.

Naturally the buyers thought they deserved a discount for buying extra product and besides, wine and beer are vastly different products even though they deliver the same effect.

O'Hoy's scalp will be no immediate panacea for Foster's problems.

The write-downs are too small, goodwill has been transferred from the wine operation to brewing, leading beer brands such as VB are under pressure from arch-rival Lion Nathan, the local wine operations are yet to fire and the overall outlook for sales growth is sombre.

While the wine business has not been run nearly as well as it might have been, its No. 1 problem is Foster's paid too much in the first place: in the order of $7 billion for assets which, on Merrill's numbers, are generating a mere $450 million in EBIT.

mwest@fairfax.com.au

BusinessDay

rampant hair

03-07-2008, 10:38 AM

marathonman

03-07-2008, 10:45 AM

How did AIB lie over Rusnak?

Offshore accounts? Parmalat? Wine producers in Australia??

We're going off on a tangent here!

But i'll tell you what, given the choice of a takeover rumour on a stock I owned versus one I was short, I know which one i'd pick.

Rusnak= no long term effect on share price
Offshore accounts=lying to shareholders and customers
Parmalat= shareholders been lied to and kept in the dark
Fosters= Takeovers are not always good for the shareholder

rampant hair

03-07-2008, 10:51 AM

Not sure what your point is, we'll agree to differ

marathonman

03-07-2008, 10:57 AM

Not sure what your point is, we'll agree to differ

My only point is that everything in the higher echelons of society is about making the rich richer and if that involves lying,cover ups etc then so be it.

Agree with you that we could go on all night and we would still be no further on.

rampant hair

03-07-2008, 11:01 AM

Things are hardly squeeky clean on the other end on the scale either.

I don't buy the working class hero stuff

Everyone looks out for themselves, that's the way of the world.

marathonman

03-07-2008, 12:02 PM

More bad news for our economy.ECB have just raised interest rates a 1/4% to 4.25%.
Very bad news.This for me is one of the main problems of been in an enlarged economy.

marathonman

03-07-2008, 12:09 PM

Oil price hits fresh record over $146
The price of oil continued to climb today as Brent crude rose $146 a barrel for the first time in London.

Brent crude has risen by $2.08 to $146.34 in London trading this morning.

US crude rose as much as $1.00 to an all-time high of $144.57 a barrel, before easing back to $144.19.

Oil has risen more than 50 per cent this year, helped by inflows of speculative money as investors seek to hedge against the falling dollar and inflation.

In the latest of a series of news this week which stoked supply concerns, official data showed US crude oil stocks fell more than expected last week, down 2 million barrels to 299.8 million barrels, putting commercial inventories below 300 million barrels for the first time since January.

Later today, traders will focus on the outcome of a European Central Bank meeting due at 12.45pm, which may result in an interest rate hike that could weaken the US dollar further.

Oil prices have jumped seven-fold since 2002, as demand from emerging economies such as China and India stretches supply growth.

© 2008 ireland.com

Jockser

03-07-2008, 12:23 PM

pushing for a 200$ barrel

rampant hair

03-07-2008, 01:24 PM

Trichet hinted in his press conference that it's not one in a series of hikes - which was the big worry - 25bps was already priced in.

Hopefully that's the end of it, we need to see weakness in the German economy now or the risk is more hikes.

marathonman

03-07-2008, 10:17 PM

Starbucks is the latest casualty.They are axing 12000 jobs and closing 600 stores.

redeagle

03-07-2008, 10:45 PM

Starbucks is the latest casualty.They are axing 12000 jobs and closing 600 stores.

they also stopped employees from joining unions...

600 stores within the same shopping center.. ...the starbucks pavilion. :mad:

marathonman

03-07-2008, 10:49 PM

they also stopped employees from joining unions...

600 stores within the same shopping center.. ...the starbucks pavilion. :mad:

Wal Mart were the advocates of such a staunch position to the the extent that when the butchers in Wal Mart all joined a union thinking they had unity in strength and couldn't be challenged.
Wal Mart closed all it's butcher dept's and now only stock prepacked meats.
Don't think it was tried again

Jockser

04-07-2008, 01:22 PM

gold up $19 dollars yesterday..... think im gonna lob some into this for a few months see what happens. reports it gonna shoot from 1000 to 2000 in autumn????:eek:

JOE

04-07-2008, 08:59 PM

gold up $19 dollars yesterday..... think im gonna lob some into this for a few months see what happens. reports it gonna shoot from 1000 to 2000 in autumn????:eek:

In the short term, when there is a hiatus in the property market so to speak many will invest heavily in commodities, but, in my opinion, you have to be shrewd, get in and out whilst the going is good or else you will get burnt...

Jockser

04-07-2008, 09:28 PM

yes Joe well said you have to watch commodities very closely it can shoot up and plumet in a day

marathonman

09-07-2008, 08:36 AM

After the fall in BOI shares yesterday,I would say they are near at their bottom(€4.51 at close ).
I think Dub13 if you wanted to put a few bob in them and hold them for a couple of years you will not go to far wrong. They are worth more than this even in the current market conditions.
Only my opinion.

Jockser

09-07-2008, 01:14 PM

my brother works in finance and european economics and he said the same thing as yourself MM. should be a good investment

reder

09-07-2008, 01:17 PM

Fair play to you lads for investing at the moment. I am just going to save it in an account and take all the low risk options I can.

Dub13

09-07-2008, 01:31 PM

marathonman

09-07-2008, 01:36 PM

Re the bank of Ireland shares lucky I did not jump a couple of weeks back when I posted on this thread that they were undervalued,I think they could be at the bottom now and may stick a few bob into them.

As I told you at the time they probably had not bottomed out but truthfully nobody can call it one way or another.
All I would say is that at €4.50 odd you should be on near certainty if you can hold onto them in the medium term.If they do fall after buying, don't panic. Just forget about them and don't invest any money in them that you will need in the short term.

stamullenredmen

09-07-2008, 02:18 PM

at risk of hijacking a thread how do you get into shares lads???not that ive too cent to rub together but i always wondered

rampant hair

09-07-2008, 03:14 PM

at risk of hijacking a thread how do you get into shares lads???not that ive too cent to rub together but i always wondered

you can get involved for a small amount of money with cityindex.co.uk or even on betfair if you want

redeagle

09-07-2008, 03:22 PM

redeagle

09-07-2008, 03:22 PM

http://www.smartmoney.com/

rampant hair

09-07-2008, 03:31 PM

you don't need prices to go up to make money redeagle, you can go short stocks and indices with most brokers

now is the best time to be invloved as a daytrader as the volatilty is huge

marathonman

09-07-2008, 03:37 PM

You will make little money now, to make any real profit you needed to be involved 5 years ago. I'd also like to point out that heavy investment into commodities is one of the reasons we are in this mess and struggling to get out.

Would have to disagree with this.Now is the time or close to it to investing in shares when everybody is getting out(Not all shares).
This is the time not 5 years ago when the upside was limited and uncertain.
The upside is very great whereas as I said if you hold on for the medium term the downside is limited.

Dub13

09-07-2008, 11:29 PM

5 years is the minimum time frame I would be looking at.

marathonman

09-07-2008, 11:42 PM

5 years is the minimum time frame I would be looking at.

You'll be sound with that time frame. You have to remember the foreign institutional investors are dumping Irish shares as fast as they can.They see an over exposure to property and the banks that have lent to fund the property boom.Irish institutions are burdened heavily in the stock which is bad news for pensions.
Rest assured if you are holding on a 5 year plan you will not lose.Only thing that can go wrong is that you could have gotten a better return elsewhere.
In my opinion you will not go wrong in if you invest in it.

Only problem is trying to call the bottom of the market.As I said though,don't worry if you don't.In 5 years time I would be very surprised if you haven't doubled your money at least.

Dub13

16-07-2008, 05:51 PM

I just got an annual statement from a fund I put a few bob into a month,its down about 1k on what I have put in over the last 12 months.I know these things fluctuate but its a cnut to see it in black and white and also it does not help when its your cash.

JOE

19-07-2008, 03:49 PM

I was really frustrated when i saw the gains the AIB made on Thursday. I was toying with the idea for a while, and should've got in there when the going was good...i don't think we'll see them that low again in the near future...but then again, you never really know...

James

15-09-2008, 09:25 AM

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a0iuIemBxDPY&refer=home

Fowler's God

16-09-2008, 07:07 AM

We're in a recession lads big time. That's 3 huge American banks gone bust in a week, AIG now in trouble. Stock markets crumbling all over the world. Absolutely crazy, for my generation who grew up as young lads and lassies during the 90's we will not have experienced this before, will be an eye opener to everyone born in the 80's and early 90's.

broadbandken

16-09-2008, 11:22 PM

Expect plenty of job losses over the next few months.

carpe diem

16-09-2008, 11:30 PM

the company i work for do their buisness in dollars out of ireland,they've been letting people go over the last 6 months,i reckon i'll be getting a redundancy soon,b*lls to that !!

Garrett

16-09-2008, 11:33 PM

Expect plenty of job losses over the next few months.

Sadly, your most likely right !

- I'd not be even toying with the idea of investing in shares / managed funds / bonds (capital guaranteed or otherwise) etc at the moment, there's a serious risk of companies going bust etc.

- Keep your dosh in a savings account (or several) & remember, the state only guarantees your first €20k, so if you've got a fair few quid, break it up and limit your deposit to max €20k per account, one per institution (in the case of a married couple, ensure you open one account each with €20k in each of them, you'll get double protection that way !)

DaPitViper

18-09-2008, 04:07 AM

the company i work for do their buisness in dollars out of ireland,they've been letting people go over the last 6 months,i reckon i'll be getting a redundancy soon,b*lls to that !!

The same thing has happened to me just make sure you get a good package fight for every last penny cause everything counts

James

18-09-2008, 10:06 PM

The move by UK Financial regulators to suspend short selling of shares is just nuts. Short selling is no different than me going onto Betfair on Saturday and laying Babel scoring first on Saturday at 5/1 then backing him 6/1 when the team sheet comes out. Fair enough some people are making big profit by doing this but it is a bet at the end of the day. The US will no doubt follow suit!!

Seems that the Governments across the globe are just delaying the inevitable catastrophe. At the moment the construction and financial sector are taking the hit but soon the retail chains and technology companies are going to be in huge trouble as people lose jobs, credit becomes scarce and online transactions fall. We aren't even close to the end of the beginning and yet some people think theres light at the end of the tunnel!! Dream on.

dking

19-09-2008, 11:42 AM

What about deposit accounts?
Do you think any of the banks here will go bang?

Lots of talk in the media and then lenihan coming out today and saying peoples money was safe !!!!!

D-Red

19-09-2008, 11:50 AM

What about deposit accounts?
Do you think any of the banks here will go bang?

Lots of talk in the media and then lenihan coming out today and saying peoples money was safe !!!!!

Don't worry Dking, Your accounts in the Cayman islands won't be affected :D

Seriously though, as 5forkeeps said earlier ("for my generation who grew up as young lads and lassies during the 90's we will not have experienced this before, will be an eye opener to everyone born in the 80's and early 90's."), this is all going to be a gigantic shock to a lot of young people in particular. People who thought this sort of economic nightmare was confined to the past in Ireland.

dking

19-09-2008, 11:56 AM

D-Red

19-09-2008, 12:08 PM

The fear out there is massive alright, but I think the media play a big part in that too.

I've heard all sorts of "time-frames" banded about by economists, but it's probably impossible to "Know" right now, just "Guess".

But I really wouldn't go worrying about your kids having to emigrate. It's unlikely Ireland will be as badly off in comparison with the Rest of the World as it was back then.

James

19-09-2008, 12:12 PM

:)

its not the cayman island ones Im worried about , its the d1 one :)

Im 41 , so when i was staring work things where tight in the country but I dont remember the fear that is about now. Also I was only thinking the other I hope my kids dont have to emigrate eventually like the old days.

As someone else said in the thread; spread your savings around if they are above €20k as the goverment only guarantees 100% of savings up to €20k. I'm not too sure how Credit Unions are covered. Maybe someone else on here does.

No matter what the Government says, every bank around is currently at risk.

http://www.businessworld.ie/livenews.htm?a=2286883;s=rollingnews.htm

dking

19-09-2008, 12:16 PM

"No matter what the Government says, every bank around is currently at risk."

Thats what I heard alright.

"But I really wouldn't go worrying about your kids having to emigrate. It's unlikely Ireland will be as badly off in comparison with the Rest of the World as it was back then."

What your saying makes perfect sence but with such a change in the economy added to being a parent , its natural to worry. The world will be in so much gick there will be nowhere to emigrate too.
:eek::eek::eek:
Im going back to the Football forum before I top myself ;)

ps; Nothing to do with you or your replies :)
thanks.

windhover

19-09-2008, 12:22 PM

If the banks go bust who will come looking for all the money I owe them?! ;)

Dub13

19-09-2008, 02:32 PM

You can put your savings in a bank that is regulated by another EU members financial regaler and still get the cover,for example RaboDirect areLicensed by the Dutch Central Bank and will cover you for up to 40k.

James

19-09-2008, 02:35 PM

If the banks go bust who will come looking for all the money I owe them?! ;)

Lenehan and his heavies FACT !!!

Garrett

20-09-2008, 02:04 PM

You can put your savings in a bank that is regulated by another EU members financial regulator and still get the cover,for example RaboDirect areLicensed by the Dutch Central Bank and will cover you for up to 40k.

Hi mate

As it happens, I think Rabo is only covered for €30k odd, while NIB (as it's Dakska Bank trading as NIB) is covered by Danish Government, so its €40k.

Mind you, everyone also needs to be very much aware of the interest rates they are getting, so no point in putting your only €5k into Rabobank and getting 4.3% when you can get 6% at Anglo Irish on your same €5k and be state guaranteed just the same ;)

- Also, everyone, make sure your' not leaving your hard earned savings in crap, poor rate savings accounts. Don't settle for the petty 1% from the EBS savings book for example, or other crap rates from "Demand" accounts - move your dosh, rather than let it erode while you make your bank more dosh etc ;)

Dub13

20-09-2008, 03:40 PM

Some good news,looks like we now have the best protection in Europe if not the World.

RTE News (http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0920/saving.html)

Govt raises guarantee on savings

Saturday, 20 September 2008 13:02
The Government has raised the Irish deposit guarantee to €100,000 for savers.

The measure will apply to people who have savings in credit unions as well as banks and building societies.

This new measure will take effect from today.

The guarantee of €100,000 is five times higher than the previous level of 90% of a deposit up to €20,000. That safeguard has remained unchanged since 1999.

The new measure means Ireland will have one of the highest levels of guarantee of any country in Europe.

Britain by comparison has €48,300, the Netherlands €38,000 and Italy €103,000.

Changing the guarantee has been under consideration for some time.
But the timing comes after a week of concerns among consumers prompted by unprecedented international banking meltdown.

The move requires legislation which will be back dated to today.

dking

20-09-2008, 04:24 PM

Some good news,looks like we now have the best protection in Europe if not the World.

RTE News (http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0920/saving.html)

Good news , I will only have to open 5 or 6 accounts now :)

You post was at 4.40pm D13 !
Could you not watch the match any longer ? ;)
I know the feeling .

Dub13

20-09-2008, 04:56 PM

You post was at 4.40pm D13 !
Could you not watch the match any longer ? ;)
I know the feeling .

I had the game on the Box beside me but was trying to think of something else.

dking

20-09-2008, 05:14 PM

I had the game on the Box beside me but was trying to think of something else.

Yeah I know ,How to save your fortune from going down the pan. ;)

Garrett

20-09-2008, 11:47 PM

Fair play to the Irish Government

- ground breaking stuff, but again, I guess it also helps to stabilise the Financial Services system in Ireland etc.

windhover

20-09-2008, 11:48 PM

Fair play to the Irish Government

for getting us into this mess?

Dub13

21-09-2008, 12:20 AM

for getting us into this mess?

I don't think thats fair,no small Government could do anything to stop this current mess.

James

21-09-2008, 09:38 AM

I agree that it is a good move but it is also a worrying one. They wouldn't be doing this if a bank run was not close to happening. Guaranteeing €100k of savings also lets badly run banks off the hook. The Government are also saying that they will happily bail out any bank thats up shit creek. Todays newspapers are saying Irish Nationwide are the first in talks with them. Why should these banks be bailed out when every day of the week companies outside of the financial sector are folding?? They have nobody but themselves to blame for what is happening.

carpe diem

22-09-2008, 08:30 AM

Cocaine dealer includes fuel surcharge
Friday, 19 September 2008 10:52
High petrol prices in the US have now trickled down to the street-level drug dealer.

Like most airlines, alleged Indiana drug dealer Anthony Salinas tacked on a fuel surcharge in a recent drug buy, according to a Porter County Drug Task Force report.

The website smokinggun.com has the affidavit in which police outline the alleged transaction.

Advertisement
Mr Salinas, who is 18-years-old, told his buyer that .25 ounces (7g) would cost $240 (€169) including $25 (€18) 'for gas money to deliver the cocaine,' the court affidavit says.

According to the report, the location of the buy was supposed to be a Starbucks store in Portage, Indiana, but it was changed at the last minute 'due to a lot of people at Starbucks'.

hehe i heard it all now.

redeagle

29-09-2008, 07:31 PM

was interesting to watch the house of representatives reject the 700bn dollar bail out a few hours ago. Mostly republicans who rejected it!

cianomahony

29-09-2008, 07:44 PM

This means surely the yanks are out of luck with RBS! Please God!

redeagle

29-09-2008, 09:24 PM

This means surely the yanks are out of luck with RBS! Please God!

I'd be more concerned with stuff closer to home.

Dub13

01-10-2008, 11:36 AM

Link (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2008/1001/breaking39.htm)

Britain wants Ireland to look closely at its guarantee of all deposits in Irish banks to make sure it complies with European Union competition law, a spokesman for Prime Minister Gordon Brown said today.

More generally, he added, European governments should make sure that whatever actions they took to tackle the global financial crisis complied with EU competition law.

British banks compete with Irish banks both in Britain and in Ireland and have voiced fears they could lose out competitively to Irish banks that enjoy the full guarantee.

The Irish pledge on Tuesday to underwrite the country's banking system triggered a flood of cash from British businesses to Irish banks, a senior Irish stockbroker said.

"We just want the Irish government to look quite closely at the arrangements they are putting in place to make sure they comply with EU competition law," the British government spokesman said.
He said Britain was in contact with Irish authorities at a high level over the issue.

In Dublin, a Department of Finance spokesman said Ireland was in contact with its European partners over the government's move.
"We have been liaising with our European partners since the decision was made," the spokesman said. "Brussels would have been notified just in advance of the decision being announced."

Ireland guaranteed all bank deposits on Tuesday in a bid to improve the industry's access to international funds frozen by the global credit crunch.
The pledge covers up to €400 billion ($575 billion) of liabilities - more than twice the country's annual gross domestic product - and includes retail, commercial and interbank deposits.

But the spokesman said the issue was not just about Ireland. "A number of European governments are taking steps to deal with the current financial instability, and the key element is that ultimately the [European] Commission needs to approve those steps being taken across the EU," he said.

Mr Brown has said the British government plans to raise the guarantee for bank savings to £50,000 pounds from £35,000 in a new banking law. But he appeared to rule out following the Irish example.

European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso today said there needed to be stronger European financial supervision and greater consistency in national deposit-guarantee schemes to stabilise the financial system.

Mr Barroso said the existing system of regulation, based largely on national governments and regulators, could cope with the current crisis, but that the EU needed to go further in co-ordinated action to restore full confidence.

The European Commission proposed today that banks must tie up more capital to cover risky operations by having limits on how much they can lend to one party.

EU Internal Market Commissioner Charlie McCreevy said: "These new rules will fundamentally strengthen the regulatory framework for EU banks and the financial system."

Banks that sell securitised products or repackaged debt such as those that turned toxic in the credit crunch would have to share the risk with buyers. This will be done by the bank retaining a stake of at least 5 per cent in the products, he added.

Mr McCreevy said he would also propose at a later date to reform EU rules guaranteeing people's bank deposits.

Under existing EU rules, all bank deposits are guaranteed for at least €20,000, and Mr McCreevy will propose improvements to speed up payouts and increase the level of coverage.

Reuters
© 2008 irishtimes.com

denashpot

07-10-2008, 09:19 PM

anyone know if the credit union guarantee's your saving's like the banks do and are they any bit dodgy at the mo with all thats going on?

marathonman

07-10-2008, 10:00 PM

If you think our debts are out of control then have a look at this.

http://www.babylontoday.com/national_debt_clock.htm

Not even real time as it is now over $10 trillion, but sure a trillion is neither here nor there.
Do as Mugabe did when he was told that the Zimbabwe would become bankrupt.He said he had a printing press for printing money and if it broke he he would buy a new one.
Didn't really work their inflation is now running at 11,200,000% and we thought ours was bad at 5%.

Jockser

07-10-2008, 10:25 PM

was interesting to watch the house of representatives reject the 700bn dollar bail out a few hours ago. Mostly republicans who rejected it!

that was finally passed after martial law was threatened

Garrett

07-10-2008, 10:32 PM

Hi

I'm almost 100% sure the Irish Credit Unions are covered under the €100k scheme, I've a feeling I read it in a newspaper over the past few days.

Assuming they are, then they are safe as an Irish Bank I'd say ... but if not, then Id be careful how much I left in one (as some are significantly stronger financially, than others ... putting aside their good mutual backgrounds etc)

As an aside, I'm also pretty sure that any of the Credit Unions (eh, which covers the majority of them) subscribe to the ILCU central fund, which insures a certain amount of your savings with a Credit Union also.

Garrett

07-10-2008, 10:34 PM

Hi

Just checked - Credit Unions within the ILCU are in the €100k fund and also have their own one, read here:

http://www.ilcu.ie/publisher/index.jsp?re=0&pID=93&nID=603&aID=2367

redeagle

08-10-2008, 08:13 AM

that was finally passed after martial law was threatened

martial law eh...got a source for that!!

redspider

08-10-2008, 08:50 AM

Is there a thread somewhere discussing how the credit binge and now hangover crisis will affect Liverpool FC?

I see two things:

1) Gillet & Hicks will have a hard time setting up a new credit facility to continue their ownership. Their 350m loan from RBS/Wachovia may not be extended by any financial institution at least not at a rate that the Yanks would want to carry (and lumber us - Liverpool income providers - with). That would therefore result in a sale anywhere up to the Jan/Feb timeframe, most likely by a cash-rich entity which doesnt rely on leverage (ie: borrowing). I therefore expect Liverpool to have new owners sooner rather than later.

2) Any new owner will have difficulty financing the new stadium plan. The Yanks clearly cant move on it. A new cash rich owner could, and perhaps getting it on the cheap build wise as building costs should be low during the next few years. Perhaps a good time to build the stadium. But whether it goes ahead or not will depend on the depth of the pockets of the new owner and if they are willing to see it through.

Obviously a move by Dubai could be a good thing. They couldnt be any worse than Gillet & Hicks. Although, with Gillet & Hicks we do have to be thankful at least for their backing of the Torres deal. Not everything they have done has been unpalatable.

Redspider

Jockser

08-10-2008, 10:21 AM

martial law eh...got a source for that!!

yes sir you know i do ;)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaG9d_4zij8

callyno3

08-10-2008, 12:39 PM

The world banks have cut interest rates by half a percent

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1008/economy1.html

Daz

08-10-2008, 12:41 PM

The world banks have cut interest rates by half a percent

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1008/economy1.html

Is there any possibilty of the banks NOT passing this down to mortgage holders etc.?

liamo3

08-10-2008, 01:02 PM

I'm sure if your on a variable or tracker they have to pass it down

Shay

08-10-2008, 01:12 PM

One positive anyway, now all we need to do is keep our jobs to pay for it

Pimboli

08-10-2008, 01:23 PM

Is there any possibilty of the banks NOT passing this down to mortgage holders etc.?

I would think the probability is quite high, the interest rate is on the loans the banks have with the CB so seeing how they are losing money hand over fist may see this as a way to make some money back.

I dont think they are bound by any agreement to pass it on.

What the government should do next week is double or triple mortgage relief to free money back into the economy because it wont come from the banks.

liamo3

08-10-2008, 02:47 PM

I would think the probability is quite high, the interest rate is on the loans the banks have with the CB so seeing how they are losing money hand over fist may see this as a way to make some money back.

I dont think they are bound by any agreement to pass it on.

What the government should do next week is double or triple mortgage relief to free money back into the economy because it wont come from the banks.

If you are on a tracker rate linked to ECB it has to be passed on and the banks are bound to to do this as for normal variable not sure, thank fck I'm on a tracker

stamullenredmen

08-10-2008, 08:42 PM

so has the ecb cut the rate then.i need some sort of good news on the money front at the minute

redeagle

08-10-2008, 09:01 PM

yes sir you know i do ;)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaG9d_4zij8

booya

denashpot

08-10-2008, 09:30 PM

Hi

Just checked - Credit Unions within the ILCU are in the €100k fund and also have their own one, read here:

http://www.ilcu.ie/publisher/index.jsp?re=0&pID=93&nID=603&aID=2367

thanks very much for the info mate. can sleep easy tonight. :D

Garrett

08-10-2008, 09:57 PM

Is there any possibilty of the banks NOT passing this down to mortgage holders etc.?

If you are on a tracker rate linked to ECB it has to be passed on and the banks are bound to to do this as for normal variable not sure, thank fck I'm on a tracker

Liam's spot on here ...

If it's an ECB Tracker, then your defo getting a 0.5% reduction on your interest rate with immediate effect.

If your on a standard variable rate Homeloan, it's at the descretion of the Lender but in theory, they should pass it on. Both AIB & Hallifax have already announced today, they will pass on the full 0.5% reduction to all standard rate borrowers, I'd expect all others will follow - too much bad press for them in the current climate, if they don't do it.

As an example, anyone with a €500k mortgage, over 30 years, can expect a reduction in the region of €140 per month in their payments, if they get the benifit of the full 0.5% cut.

For as long as we all can afford it though, we're better off chipping in the extra bit on the homeloan each month even when our monthly payments do reduce, may be greatful we did if things get worse (eh, hate to do it but Shay's raised a fair point above !)

As for an increase in Mortgage Interest Relief, lovely idea but with the economy in it's current state & the budget pushed forward - I'm afraid the Government is looking to increase income here with the budget brought forward, rather than reduce their income by giving us more tax breaks :(

reder

14-10-2008, 08:38 AM

Today is the day when we will truely feel the pinch.

D-Red

14-10-2008, 08:42 AM

Yeah. Lots of very bad news on the way today. As if we hadn't had enough recently.

Pimboli

14-10-2008, 09:36 AM

Its been interesting listening to The Last Word over the past week on the way home ragarding everything thats going on. Last night they had Michael O'Leary on who is one of the most hated men in Ireland yet virtually all the people contacting the show backed him. The flat departure fee being his main gripe that people who need cheap airfares will be paying the same amount as the guy paying a grand for first class seats that it should be a percentage of the ticket price.

He also said FAS should be scrapped as a €1bn waste of money, 25% of the HSC should be sacked as they do nothing (something they admit themselves following centralisation) and he said he's sack half the civil service workers that are getting guaranted salary increases above the average worker, do less, if anything, and if they muck something up nothing happens.

But as usual it looks like its the little guy that is going to get take it in the neck (apparently) stopping child payments at 16 as well as cutting down on other child benefits, great for single parents.

offaly16

14-10-2008, 11:22 AM

I was listeneing to the Last Word as well and much as I despise the man(O'Leary) he made some excellent points and 99% of thlose people contacting the show were in full agreement with him, which is very unusual for the Last Word listeners especially where Ryanair is concerened. His point about a sliding scale relating to the price of the airline ticket you purchased was excellent and made common sense.

Its been interesting listening to The Last Word over the past week on the way home ragarding everything thats going on. Last night they had Michael O'Leary on who is one of the most hated men in Ireland yet virtually all the people contacting the show backed him. The flat departure fee being his main gripe that people who need cheap airfares will be paying the same amount as the guy paying a grand for first class seats that it should be a percentage of the ticket price.

He also said FAS should be scrapped as a €1bn waste of money, 25% of the HSC should be sacked as they do nothing (something they admit themselves following centralisation) and he said he's sack half the civil service workers that are getting guaranted salary increases above the average worker, do less, if anything, and if they muck something up nothing happens.

But as usual it looks like its the little guy that is going to get take it in the neck (apparently) stopping child payments at 16 as well as cutting down on other child benefits, great for single parents.

James

17-11-2008, 02:57 PM

This guy is a bit controversial but is pretty spot on in everything he says.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZiWd0bGAdc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNpfIBmg05g

Jockser

17-11-2008, 06:19 PM

not much wrong with what he is saying there.arrest them all!!!but since they own the courts and law enforcers who is gonna arrest them? the IK hit squad?

Dub13

17-11-2008, 06:42 PM

Bank of Ireland Shares went below 1 euro today....thats crazy they were over 18 euro 2 years ago.

James

17-11-2008, 07:31 PM

Bank of Ireland Shares went below 1 euro today....thats crazy they were over 18 euro 2 years ago.

I remember a time not so long ago when nearly expert under the sun was advising people to invest in Irish banks :mad: No doubt many did.

reder

18-11-2008, 07:46 AM

I remember a time not so long ago when nearly expert under the sun was advising people to invest in Irish banks :mad: No doubt many did.

Plenty of irish people, were bullshitting away pretending they were financial experts. I have had many many clowns trying to convince me that they knew something about the markets. These people made money for years and thought they were billy-big-bollocks. Now, like everyone else in the world their shares are worth far less but the gobshites here blame everyone else.

arrest them all!!!but since they own the courts and law enforcers who is gonna arrest them? the IK hit squad?

You have been off this forum for a while but you have come back with some of your best bullsh1t there Jockser. Yet another piece of top notch unbiased Current Affairs moderation by you. **** claps ***** Do you actually know what the word moderation means?

liverbird!!

18-11-2008, 11:15 AM

I've never so much time on the Pc, phone has rang once all day today, and that was someone looking for money!:eek:

Bad times!!

Jockser

18-11-2008, 03:35 PM

You have been off this forum for a while but you have come back with some of your best bullsh1t there Jockser. Yet another piece of top notch unbiased Current Affairs moderation by you. **** claps ***** Do you actually know what the word moderation means?LOL coming from the biggest billsh1ter on the forums ill take that as a compliment!:rolleyes: you know where you can stick your "unbiased moderation"!!!:D you havent a dickie on most topics in this forum but you dont see me whinge about it do ya?

reder

18-11-2008, 05:53 PM

LOL coming from the biggest billsh1ter on the forums ill take that as a compliment!:rolleyes: you know where you can stick your "unbiased moderation"!!!:D you havent a dickie on most topics in this forum but you dont see me whinge about it do ya?

moderator : Somebody who presides over an assembly or acts as a mediator in discussions or negotiations.

Do you know what a mediator does? Hint, its the exact opposite of what you do on this current affairs forum. I am so happy to hear that you have such issues with the content I post. Im obviously getting my principles and values accross good and clear.

I have said it before and I'll say it again Jockser, your SF bully boy tactics wont work on me. You keep on posting your standard propeganda and I'll keep on knocking it back. In all the months, you still have to post one single shred of decent hard fact. Your posts are generally completely OTT. No rational-thinking adult would come out with them.

A lot of impressionable youngsters read these forums and I have no intention of letting a wannabe like you force-feed them biast tripe and thus turn them into moany little anti-government, anti-state, anti-US individuals with life-long chips on their shoulders.

You have some cheek infering that I post rubbish. Lets look at the facts, shall we? Here are some of your recent ramblings :

not much wrong with what he is saying there.arrest them all!!!but since they own the courts and law enforcers who is gonna arrest them? the IK hit squad?

Yes, of course. Locking them all up is going to solve the problem.

c**t should be arrested and put on trial for war crimes like milosevic and hussein. cheney and rumsfeld should not even be given a trial

In relation to Bush. I am not his biggest fan but that is just a ridiculous.

so another puppet comes to "power", just sit back and wait for the "crisis to test obama" powell, biden and a few others have all being predicting will happen a few days after he gets into office, to unfold.

In relation to Obama, who has provided a lift to many throughout the world with his victory. The man ran a brilliant political campaign. It was flawless in my opinion but if you can point out flaws, I will hold my hands up and admit im wrong.

##############################

Jockser, can I genuinely ask you who you want to run our country and the USA. You dont seem to like anyone or have any particular ideals. Do you mind me asking you if you think imposing an extra tax on the rich here in Ireland is the way to go? Just as a matter of interest. PS: If you do, can you post a rate and a cut-off band. Im going to show you what "having a dickie" is sunshine.

Also, I think you will support I tend to support the western way. The likes of mypost and yourself are the whingers.

Dub13

18-11-2008, 06:02 PM

reder

18-11-2008, 06:26 PM

A moderator does not always 'presided over an assembly or acts as a mediator in discussions or negotiations.'.They are first and foremost a normal poster and if things get out of hand they then step into there mod role.

This is your forum Dub13, you pay the bills so to speak and you are within your right to define roles. However, I would expect a certain level of discretion from a moderator as a user. It was most definitely present when I was mod but it is sadly lacking on this particular section.

I have requested that this section be closed, I dont know if you are aware of this. Some of the ramblings are dangerous and provoke dangerous sentiments. (Very anti-US, very anti-western). There are an awful lot of youngsters browsing this forum and they should not be exposed to it. Calling any head of state a c**t or a terrorist is a disgraceful statement. If any of us were to express sentiments of that nature in the workplace, we would face serious disciplinary actions and rightly so.

The mods on this forum are the ones causing things to get out of hand. Look at the posting on the USA giving Iran money towards their nuclear programme. Thats a pile of sh1te and you have to admit it. $3m is nothing yet it is posted up as some big deal.

Close this down, Dub13. This content has no place on this site.

I may be coming accross as a cnut on this forum but it with very VERY good reason. Many people on this forum know me personally and know that I am decent person. I am not arguing here for WUMing reasons.

redeagle

18-11-2008, 07:09 PM

This is your forum Dub13, you pay the bills so to speak and you are within your right to define roles. However, I would expect a certain level of discretion from a moderator as a user. It was most definitely present when I was mod but it is sadly lacking on this particular section.

I have requested that this section be closed, I dont know if you are aware of this. Some of the ramblings are dangerous and provoke dangerous sentiments. (Very anti-US, very anti-western). There are an awful lot of youngsters browsing this forum and they should not be exposed to it. Calling any head of state a c**t or a terrorist is a disgraceful statement. If any of us were to express sentiments of that nature in the workplace, we would face serious disciplinary actions and rightly so.

The mods on this forum are the ones causing things to get out of hand. Look at the posting on the USA giving Iran money towards their nuclear programme. Thats a pile of sh1te and you have to admit it. $3m is nothing yet it is posted up as some big deal.

lgod forbid people actually see the state for what it is. Name me a state that hasn't punished a minority, name me a state that has equal wealth distribution for all of its citizens.

Why should be people not be allowed to view alternative opinions. I can't speak for jocksers posts, I might even disagree with most of them but his opinion has a right to be viewed as much as anybody, just because its not in line with "normal" standards of thought doesn't make it wrong.

Dub13

18-11-2008, 07:24 PM

I was aware somebody had requested this forum to be closed,I was not aware it was you the mod in question kept that private.

The Mods have discussed if we should close this forum and its the overwhelming opinion (and mine) that we should keep it open.We are in a no win situation last year we were getting accused of over moderation the site and been like teachers.We then made a collective decision to relax some rules and now we are at the other end of the spectrum.

We are building a community here and its only natural that lads who get to no each other from posting about football will branch out and want to chat with like minded people on a variety of issues.The current affairs forum is part of this process.

Your concern about young members is a valid one,but I would say the stuff on this site is no worse than what you would hear in the pub or around most football grounds.This is the Internet and they are only a few clicks away from some proper nasty stuff.I am also aware of all under age members and I keep an eye out for them.

SUPERFAN

18-11-2008, 07:34 PM

it's at the descretion of the Lender but in theory, they should pass it on.

there's been another .5% cut since and neither have been passed on to me yet.i rang my Lender and they told me they were passing on a .5% cut on December 1st:mad:
fcukers were quick enough to put it up any time there was an increase.....

byrnetred

18-11-2008, 08:21 PM

there's been another .5% cut since and neither have been passed on to me yet.i rang my Lender and they told me they were passing on a .5% cut on December 1st:mad:
fcukers were quick enough to put it up any time there was an increase.....
regarding the recent cuts in the ECB rates, phone up and ensure that the rate cuts are infact been passed on to you...

was listing to the radio the other day and there is one particular bank that only passes on the rate cuts by the request of a letter...

Jockser

18-11-2008, 08:49 PM

moderator : Somebody who presides over an assembly or acts as a mediator in discussions or negotiations.

Do you know what a mediator does? Hint, its the exact opposite of what you do on this current affairs forum. I am so happy to hear that you have such issues with the content I post. Im obviously getting my principles and values accross good and clear..wow were are all amazed with your copy and paste skills thank you! ill post my opinion and anything i want.if you have a problem with that then tough sh1t
.
I have said it before and I'll say it again Jockser, your SF bully boy tactics wont work on me. You keep on posting your standard propeganda and I'll keep on knocking it back. In all the months, you still have to post one single shred of decent hard fact. Your posts are generally completely OTT. No rational-thinking adult would come out with them. .can you point out once where i posted anything in favour of SF? i support no party not that that has ANYTHING to do with this thread. Put your dummy back in you whinger! Ill post what i believe and what i want and dont give a shite how you try knock it back but it seems are totally incapable of doing this without resorting to personal insults and nothing else.

A lot of impressionable youngsters read these forums and I have no intention of letting a wannabe like you force-feed them biast tripe and thus turn them into moany little anti-government, anti-state, anti-US individuals with life-long chips on their shoulders..hopefully they will make their own minds up on the world and how it turns im not here to try make an impression on anyone i give my opinion. note how i dont comment on any of your tripe, and my god you spew some sh1te but every one is entiteld to their opinion! You got that yet!!???!
.
Yes, of course. Locking them all up is going to solve the problem.
In relation to Bush. I am not his biggest fan but that is just a ridiculous.they are criminals roobing the world and running illegal wars killing 100s of thousands. Yes if there was justice they should be locked up at least. Got a probelm?!?!

In relation to Obama, who has provided a lift to many throughout the world with his victory. The man ran a brilliant political campaign. It was flawless in my opinion but if you can point out flaws, I will hold my hands up and admit im wrong. i dont care if you think it was flawless youre entiteld to your opinion. he is a puppet in my eyes who has been groomed by Brzezinski . got a problem with my opinion ? then try making a coherent non abusvie reply to it !

##############################

Jockser, can I genuinely ask you who you want to run our country and the USA. You dont seem to like anyone or have any particular ideals. Do you mind me asking you if you think imposing an extra tax on the rich here in Ireland is the way to go? Just as a matter of interest. PS: If you do, can you post a rate and a cut-off band. Im going to show you what "having a dickie" is sunshine.

Also, I think you will support I tend to support the western way. The likes of mypost and yourself are the whingers.i used to support it till i saw it was a little rich boys club who are allowed to get away with literelly murder and screwing the public over. I dont support capaitalism nor communism i support justice and fair government. i dont see that around anywhere but maybe you can enlighten us all:rolleyes:

Jockser

18-11-2008, 08:59 PM

I have requested that this section be closed, I dont know if you are aware of this. Some of the ramblings are dangerous and provoke dangerous sentiments. (Very anti-US, very anti-western). There are an awful lot of youngsters browsing this forum and they should not be exposed to it. Calling any head of state a c**t or a terrorist is a disgraceful statement. If any of us were to express sentiments of that nature in the workplace, we would face serious disciplinary actions and rightly so.get of your high horse. it is NOT a disgrace to call someone who has killed over a million people illegally a c**t. thats the least he is. you wana go kiss his ass go ahead i couldnt give a damn. workplace? what are you on? totally irrelevent arguement. if someone killed a work colleague illegally would he keep his job??:rolleyes:

The mods on this forum are the ones causing things to get out of hand. Look at the posting on the USA giving Iran money towards their nuclear programme. Thats a pile of sh1te and you have to admit it. $3m is nothing yet it is posted up as some big deal.pile of sh1te?im sorry if the truth upsets you! deal with it!!!

Tell you what!! here is an idea! DONT click on the current affairs forum and put me on your block list! then we can all live in our little rose tinted world

byrnetred

18-11-2008, 09:02 PM

FAO REDER AND JOCKSER

how about the 2 of yous **** off destroying these threads and pick up a phone or PM/msn/yahoo or do whatever and sort it out...?????????????

reder

18-11-2008, 09:28 PM

Fair enough. As far as I can see, anything goes, so here goes ..........

James

18-11-2008, 09:41 PM

I think we need to lighten up this thread and thanks to marathonman I found a source (sorry marathonman:D)

After the fall in BOI shares yesterday,I would say they are near at their bottom(€4.51 at close ).
I think Dub13 if you wanted to put a few bob in them and hold them for a couple of years you will not go to far wrong. They are worth more than this even in the current market conditions.
Only my opinion.

reder

18-11-2008, 10:30 PM

You know what Jockser, you are partially correct, in a roundabout way. We are never going to agree on politics, national or international. I am going to be a man here and apologise for any personal offense caused. I will not apologise for my political opinion and I understand that you wont either, which you shouldnt in a democracy. I am going to put you on ignore however, as I just cant stand your opinions. I have debated with people who shares views like yours in public fora and its just as passionate.

We are probably going to end up ruining what it a nice forumn if we continue and im sure the other mods dont appretiate the extra work.

Jockser

18-11-2008, 10:37 PM

I agree with you reder. we wont agree in politics and i apologise to you to for the personal offense caused. Id never want you to apologise for your political views. we are obviously and the far ends of the scale. Ill try tone it down

Gerry

19-11-2008, 07:57 AM

FAO REDER AND JOCKSER

how about the 2 of yous **** off destroying these threads and pick up a phone or PM/msn/yahoo or do whatever and sort it out...?????????????

Is Right

liamo3

19-11-2008, 08:54 AM

Wow first time really in here and felt like I needed to duck! Seems an interesting place

reder

19-11-2008, 09:00 AM

Is Right

You behave yourself. :) Jockser and I have buried the political hacket for the good of the forum fyi.

I have decided to devote my forum life to promoting the word of Buffy.

reder

19-11-2008, 09:27 AM

And that isn't working out too well either

Oh dont you worry sunshine. These things take time to grow. I am going to look for some sponsorship now.

D-Red

19-11-2008, 09:37 AM

Oh dont you worry sunshine. These things take time to grow. I am going to look for some sponsorship now.

:eek: Petnames and all now...

Ahhh, OK so my little Petal-Cheeks

Daz

19-11-2008, 09:47 AM

Fair play for deciding to call a 'ceasefire' lads. Good to see common sense prevail!!!

reder

19-11-2008, 09:59 AM

Fair play for deciding to call a 'ceasefire' lads. Good to see common sense prevail!!!

No problem Daz. Its probably best all round. Anyway, I see you have no avatar on your profile. Thats very unmod-like. Nothing more to add. Just saying. :rolleyes: :whistle:

Niall

19-11-2008, 10:11 AM

there's been another .5% cut since and neither have been passed on to me yet.i rang my Lender and they told me they were passing on a .5% cut on December 1st:mad:
fcukers were quick enough to put it up any time there was an increase.....

Got told the exact same when i rang mine. Since then i received the letter from them about the two recent interest rate cuts and that they'd made a mistake as to when it should have been implemented and will be back dating it.

Daz

19-11-2008, 10:50 AM

No problem Daz. Its probably best all round. Anyway, I see you have no avatar on your profile. Thats very unmod-like. Nothing more to add. Just saying. :rolleyes: :whistle:

My no avator situation is to signify my impartiality (???) in the Buffy War:). I'm merely an interested spectator

Shay

19-11-2008, 11:37 AM

regarding the recent cuts in the ECB rates, phone up and ensure that the rate cuts are infact been passed on to you...

was listing to the radio the other day and there is one particular bank that only passes on the rate cuts by the request of a letter...

Got told the exact same when i rang mine. Since then i received the letter from them about the two recent interest rate cuts and that they'd made a mistake as to when it should have been implemented and will be back dating it.

Anyone care to name the lender, pm me if you can't name it on here openly

rampant hair

19-11-2008, 12:16 PM

Anyone care to name the lender, pm me if you can't name it on here openly

why not name and shame them?

this bank guarantee is going to be the ruin of the country

MrsStevieG

19-11-2008, 12:25 PM

Ahhh, OK so my little Petal-Cheeks

:D Ah that's a lovely name D-Red really suits him!

mypost

04-12-2008, 04:28 AM

The likes of mypost and yourself are the whingers.

:eek:

Back on-topic, the Danes and Swedes who are out of the Euro-loop, are looking to get in now, due to the credit crunch. :rolleyes: On the positive side, at least they've woken up and seen the light, unlike the Brits, who still want their beloved Queen on every note and coin. :(

The Euro is something I've wanted since Day 1, it's not an issue of national sovereignty, as each country is responsible for how it handles it's financial situation. However, it has offered limited protection in the current situation, and not the saviour, as often portrayed by the government,

Niall

04-12-2008, 12:00 PM

The European Central Bank has cut interest rates by 0.75 points, its biggest reduction in history. The move comes as euro zone inflation plummets and the euro zone economy sinks deeper into recession.

The move takes the ECB's main rate to 2.5%, its lowest in nearly two and a half years, and marks the third cut in barely two months

windhover

04-12-2008, 12:02 PM

Delighted with the cuts. will make a big difference to me! :D

Garrett

04-12-2008, 12:19 PM

Anyone care to name the lender

Hey mate

There's absolutely no reason why that lender cannot be named openly, as long as whatever is said is true and can be proven, there is never anything to worry about ...

Name & Shame is the way to go, though sounds pretty dodgy to me, I must admit.

Great news about the rate reduction, that will help every one of us with mortgages (except those on a fixed rate, obviously) ....

Sadly, not good news for those with savings, as the savings rates are going to fall pretty quick now also. So lads, anyone with cash savings, might want to check out the likes of Anglo, Hallifax etc double quick and get one of their higher rates fast, if you can stick the cash away for a little while.

Niall

04-12-2008, 12:20 PM

:D:D:DDelighted with the cuts. will make a big difference to me! :D

Yes indeed happy days :D:D:D:D:D:D

James

04-12-2008, 04:31 PM

It'll take more than a cut in interest rates to sort this shit out.

The chart reflects bailouts relative to GDP.

http://www.portfolio.com/images/feeds/blogs/GlobalBailout.gif

Rover 609

04-12-2008, 04:48 PM

It'll take more than a cut in interest rates to sort this shit out.

The chart reflects bailouts relative to GDP.

http://www.portfolio.com/images/feeds/blogs/GlobalBailout.gif

Nominal GDP (2007): $186.2 billion. Some amount of zeros required alright,carnage.James your the figures guru,give the bad news in numbers.

James

04-12-2008, 05:14 PM

Nominal GDP (2007): $186.2 billion. Some amount of zeros required alright,carnage.James your the figures guru,give the bad news in numbers.

Ronan mate just looking at that graph makes my head hurts!! (and my stomach sick :eek:)

SUPERFAN

04-12-2008, 05:28 PM

Got told the exact same when i rang mine. Since then i received the letter from them about the two recent interest rate cuts and that they'd made a mistake as to when it should have been implemented and will be back dating it.

is there anything you can do about lenders not passing on the full interest rate cuts?
great news again today but i have my doubts as to whether i'll see the full benefits of it....

reddave

04-12-2008, 05:34 PM

Hey mate

There's absolutely no reason why that lender cannot be named openly, as long as whatever is said is true and can be proven, there is never anything to worry about ...

Name & Shame is the way to go, though sounds pretty dodgy to me, I must admit.

Great news about the rate reduction, that will help every one of us with mortgages (except those on a fixed rate, obviously) ....

Sadly, not good news for those with savings, as the savings rates are going to fall pretty quick now also. So lads, anyone with cash savings, might want to check out the likes of Anglo, Hallifax etc double quick and get one of their higher rates fast, if you can stick the cash away for a little while.

all good news for me so..!

Niall

04-12-2008, 08:53 PM

is there anything you can do about lenders not passing on the full interest rate cuts?
great news again today but i have my doubts as to whether i'll see the full benefits of it....

If your on a tracker they have to pass it on within 10 days of the interest rate change. Saw the benfit of the October change in my November repayment. Assume your on a tracker??

Garrett

04-12-2008, 11:33 PM

Hi mate

Without wanting to upset you, I think it's actually max 30 days to pass on the rate cut, but it defo has to go through if your on a Tracker end of story.

There was some sh1t going on a while back, think it was on TV, where (I think) it was UB & FA who were delaying passing on a last rate reduction by 30 days ...

It turned out, they only increased their lending rates, 30 days after the ECB had put rates up in the past, so IFSRA or someone, decided that up to 30 days was fair, as long as they took the same time to pass on rate hikes (i.e, that they weren't milking people)

On TV this evening, the following have already confirmed they will pass on the cut in full, for Trackers ( & I think, also their variable rate mortgages, can't recall for sure though)...

AIB,
Hallifax / Bank of Scotland
BoI

Niall

05-12-2008, 08:18 AM

SUPERFAN

05-12-2008, 09:11 AM

If your on a tracker they have to pass it on within 10 days of the interest rate change. Saw the benfit of the October change in my November repayment. Assume your on a tracker??

i reckon it's a tracker mortgage allright.any time there's been an ECB interest rate rise my Mortgage went up accordingly,now that rates are starting to fall they don't seem to be as quick to pass it on....

Niall

05-12-2008, 09:27 AM

i reckon it's a tracker mortgage allright.any time there's been an ECB interest rate rise my Mortgage went up accordingly,now that rates are starting to fall they don't seem to be as quick to pass it on....

Sorry about the 10 days thought it was 10 but Garrett tells me it's 30 so i'll bow to his superior knowledge :D:D:D:D
Check it out straightaway if your on a tracker as it's in the contract that the rate changes have to be passed on for trackers.

Anthony_1892

05-12-2008, 10:15 AM

great cuts hope the keep comming

providing you have a job after xmas to keep paying it :)

James

05-12-2008, 11:59 AM

is there anything you can do about lenders not passing on the full interest rate cuts?
great news again today but i have my doubts as to whether i'll see the full benefits of it....

Why dont you ask tracker paddy?? ;)

liamo3

05-12-2008, 12:15 PM

If your on a tracker they have to pass it on within 10 days of the interest rate change. Saw the benfit of the October change in my November repayment. Assume your on a tracker??

Thats not happening me only got the first .5% this month

Dub13

05-12-2008, 03:15 PM

Link (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2008/1205/breaking36.htm)

The Ulster Bank Group, which includes First Active, is the only mortgage lender in the State that will not pass on the full three-quarters of a percentage point cut in interest rates introduced by the European Central Bank yesterday.
Ulster Bank said it would reduce its standard variable rate by just 0.5 per cent from January 1st and said the reason for this was the “increased cost of money being experienced throughout the banking sector.” Holders of a tracker mortgage with Ulster Bank Group or First Active will see a 0.75 per cent fall in their repayments.

As a result the Ulster Bank group, which includes First Active, is the only significant mortgage lender in the State not to pass on the full rate. The group is one of the largest mortgage lenders here with an estimated 20 per cent share of the market.
Earlier today five banks confirmed their intention to pass on the full cut. This group included; Irish Nationwide, EBS, Permanent TSB, KBC and National Irish Bank (NIB).
Permanent TSB, the largest mortgage lender in the State with around a fifth of the market, said it would pass on the rate reduction to tracker and variable rate mortgage holders but warned “high interbank rates could prevent future reductions being passed on in full”.
EBS said it would reduce its standard variable rate mortgages by 75bps to 4.13 per cent for the January mortgage repayments. National Irish Bank and Irish Nationwide said the interest rate cut announced yesterday would be passed on to holders of standard variable rate and tracker mortgages.

KBC (formerly IIB Bank), the fifth largest mortgage lender in the State with a 12 per cent market share, said it planned to pass on the full rate cut to “owner-occupier residential mortgage customers”.
The London interbank offered rate (Libor) that banks charge each other for lending among financial institutions was little changed at 2.19 per cent today. The overnight rate declined 24 basis points to 0.28 per cent.

Yesterday, AIB, Bank of Ireland and Halifax-Bank of Scotland (Ireland) confirmed they would pass on the full reduction to customers on variable mortgage interest rates.

The reduction from 3.25 per cent to 2.5 per cent is the sharpest cut in the 10-year history of the ECB. The change is likely to result in a fall of €43 for every €100,000 borrowed based on a 30-year term loan.

The ECB has reduced interest rates from 4.25 per cent to 2.5 per cent in three successive cuts over just two months. Borrowers with a €300,000 mortgage over a 30-year term will now pay €309 less in monthly repayments compared to September.

Yesterday the Bank of England cut its interest rate by one percentage point to 2 per cent, its lowest level since 1951.

The higher interest rate cut from the UK central bank pushed sterling to a record low against the euro last night, which traded at 86.9p against the currency, the strongest level since it was created in 1999.
© 2008 irishtimes.com

Niall

05-12-2008, 03:25 PM

Link (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2008/1205/breaking36.htm)

Thank fcuk i have a tracker.

Niall

05-12-2008, 03:29 PM

Thats not happening me only got the first .5% this month

I had to ring them first though to sort it out as i saw nothing in October but then i got a letter apologising that they made an error (yeah right) so i got the double whammy then from them.

I am just using these decreases in rates for over paying on the mortgage.

Garrett

05-12-2008, 08:35 PM

UB & FA are seriously taking advantage here ...

Whatever about moving your mortgage, which costs money and can take a lot of time, you may also not get a decent rate at the moment etc....

I'd quickly move all my savings, credit cards, pensions, life insurance etc from the gits !

... money talks ! ;)

James

16-12-2008, 07:44 PM

Fed cut interest rates to ZERO and with it bring down the dollar. How exactly is Ireland going to compete with a weak $ and weak £ ????

Its going to be some 2009.

James

18-12-2008, 09:22 PM

Holy Shit!

Anglo Irish Bank chairman Fitzpatrick steps down

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2008/1218/breaking89.htm

PATRICK LOGUE

Chairman of Anglo Irish Bank Sean Fitzpatrick has stepped down tonight in a controversy surrounding directors' loans.

In a statement Mr Fitzpatrick he said he had made his decision “in the best interests of the bank and all its stakeholders”. He said his decision related to loans he had with the bank totalling €87 million “which will be included in the annual report for 2008 in the note relating to Directors’ Loans.”

“This balance is substantially higher than in the 2007 report because in prior years I had temporarily transferred my loans to another bank before each year end. I had done this on my own initiative over an eight year period,” the statement said.

He said the transfer of the loans between banks did not breach banking or legal regulations. “However it is clear to me, on reflection, that it was inappropriate and unacceptable from a transparency point of view,” he added.

He said he was “fully responsible for my own decisions and actions” and said he regretted he had “adopted this approach”.

The Board of Directors of Anglo said in a statement it accepted Mr Fitzpatrick’s resignation with regret.

“Mr FitzPatrick’s decision to resign is based on the fact that, over a period of eight years to 2007 he temporarily transferred loans with Anglo Irish Bank to another bank prior to the Group’s year end. This transfer of loans did not breach banking or legal regulations. It was, however, inappropriate from a transparency point of view," the statement said.

Lar Bradshaw, a non-executive Director with Anglo, also tendered his resignation. His decision was based on the fact that a loan, which he held jointly with Mr Fitzpatrick, was temporarily transferred to another bank prior to year end, the Anglo statement added.

Donal O’Connor will replace Mr Fitzpatrick as chairman. Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan said in a statement that Mr O’Connor's appointment was made following consultation with him.

Mr Lenihan said Mr Fitzpatrick's resignation would not interrupt the "substantial progress" which has been made with Anglo Irish Bank in relation to the recapitalisation programme announced on Sunday. Mr Lenihan reiterated his commitment to underwrite the capital needs of Anglo Irish Bank and to ensure its "long term strength and viability as a bank of systemic importance in Ireland."

He expressed his disappointment at the circumstances surrounding the resignation of Mr FitzPatrick but said he believes "strong corporate governance must be upheld by all financial institutions in the Irish financial system."

© 2008 irishtimes.com

Niall

15-01-2009, 11:53 AM

Captain_Morgan

15-01-2009, 12:18 PM

The European Central Bank has cut its main lending rate to 2% from 2.5%.

AIB said it would pass on any rate cut to owner occupiers with a variable or tracker mortgage.

Halifax said it would pass on any cut in full to new and existing customers on variable mortgage rates.

The two largest mortgage providers, Bank of Ireland and Permanent TSB, said they were waiting to see what the ECB decided before making any announcement.
After December's rate cut, Permanent TSB said it may not be able to pass on the full benefit of future rate cuts to variable mortgage holders if the cost of interbank borrowings remained too high.

Permanent Tsb better pass on the extra cut or else they wil have a very angry el nino onto them

Every .5% cut knocks €132 pm off the mortgage.

The more money in peoples pockets the easier it will be to get money flowing around the country again and we can start to dig ourselves out of this mess if the haemorraging of jobs can stop

Daz

15-01-2009, 12:41 PM

Every .5% cut knocks €132 pm off the mortgage.

Must have a pretty big Mortgage:eek:

Captain_Morgan

15-01-2009, 12:49 PM

Must have a pretty big Mortgage:eek:

Was €1993 pm before the rates started to fall Now down to €1502 so another €132 will be a help especially as work is starting to dry up im in the worst indusrtry possible . Transport for the construction sector:(

Pimboli

15-01-2009, 01:42 PM

Permanent Tsb better pass on the extra cut or else they wil have a very angry el nino onto them

Every .5% cut knocks €132 pm off the mortgage.

The more money in peoples pockets the easier it will be to get money flowing around the country again and we can start to dig ourselves out of this mess if the haemorraging of jobs can stop

If you are on a variable or tracker like me they have confirmed its being passed on. I think one of the banks has a hidden clause in their tracker that if the ECB rate goes below either 2.5% or 2% they dont have to pass it on but its not PTSB anyway.

Niall

15-01-2009, 02:54 PM

AIB, Halifax, Ulster Bank, First Active, Permanent TSB and EBS Building Society have confirmed that they are passing on the half a percentage point interest rate cut in full to their variable and tracker rate mortgage holders.

Bank of Ireland says it is passing on the interest rate cut in full to owner occupiers with variable or tracker rate mortgages.

A Permanent TSB spokesman said the rate cut was being passed on in full as the real cost of bank borrowing on the interbank markets had come more into line with the ECB rate in recent weeks.

Daz

15-01-2009, 02:57 PM

AIB, Halifax, Ulster Bank, First Active, Permanent TSB and EBS Building Society have confirmed that they are passing on the half a percentage point interest rate cut in full to their variable and tracker rate mortgage holders.

Good stuff.

Out of curiosity (and because I don't really have a breeze on any of this stuff), did anyone elses TRS credit change significantly in Nov/Dec and if so do you know why.? Was it budget related.?

Captain_Morgan

15-01-2009, 04:00 PM

Good stuff.

Out of curiosity (and because I don't really have a breeze on any of this stuff), did anyone elses TRS credit change significantly in Nov/Dec and if so do you know why.? Was it budget related.?

The TRS was changed in the budget it was increased to 25% from 20% for first time buyers and it was reduced to 20% from 25% for second/third time etc so it all depends which category you fall into daz

James

15-01-2009, 11:53 PM

The end is nigh

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0115/breaking87.htm

Government to nationalise Anglo Irish Bank
BARRY O'HALLORAN

The Government is set to take full ownership of troubled Anglo Irish Bank to safeguard the troubled financial institution’s future.

In the first nationalisation of its kind in the State’s history, Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan announced last night that the Government was taking “steps that will enable the bank to be taken into public ownership”.

The move follows talks yesterday with the Anglo’s board, and after assurances from the Financial Regulator and Central Bank that the company is solvent.

The State was due to take control of 75per cent of the bank after pledging to inject €1.5 billion into the institution last month as part of a recapitalisation programme that also benefited its rivals, Bank of Ireland and AIB.

However, Mr Lenihan argued that as the bank’s funding position has been weakened, and its reputation damaged as a result of a recent scandal, recapitalisation alone would not guarantee its future viability.

“Therefore the Government must move to the final and decisive step of public ownership,” he said. He said that the bank, which has a €100 billion balance sheet and substantial deposits, is of major importance to the Republic’s financial system.

Former chairman Seán FitzPatrick, chief executive David Drumm and a number of board members recently resigned after it emerged that Mr FitzPatrick had concealed details of an €87 million loan he took from the bank from shareholders.

Last month, Anglo Irish Bank revealed that it had set aside €500 million to cover possible losses from loans to developers and property speculators.

Anglo built its business and reputation by lending to the Republic’s high-profile property and construction players. As these sectors collapsed over the last year, investors walked away, wiping out its share price. Last month’s announcement and the State’s ¤1.5 billion cash injection, failed to satisfy investors, and its share price continued to collapse. <NO>It closed at 22 cent in Dublin yesterday.

<It has lost 98 per cent of its value over the last year.

Those shares will be suspended from the London and Dublin markets from today as a result of the Government’s move. The bank itself will continue to trade normally and will be open for business today.

Mr Lenihan pledged that the Government will respect shareholders’ rights in the nationalisation process. “The relevant legislation outlines a process for determining compensation as appropriate,” he said.

“All customers of Anglo Irish Bank can be assured that the full amount of their deposits and savings are further safeguarded by this action,” the Minister added.

“Creditors, including bondholders, of Anglo Irish Bank can be assured that it will continue to service its obligations and will repay its debts at maturity,” he said.

An extraordinary general meeting of its shareholders which was scheduled for this morning is still set to go ahead.

© 2009 irishtimes.com

Jockser

16-01-2009, 09:11 PM

ive a feeling its just the beginning not the end unfortunately KFN

James

19-01-2009, 11:44 AM

:eek: Anyone see the bank shares today?? AIB down 52%:eek:

Pimboli

19-01-2009, 01:38 PM

:eek: Anyone see the bank shares today?? AIB down 52%:eek:

And RBS down 60% in the UK which will no doubt have a knock on of some effect here.

General

19-01-2009, 10:15 PM

Anthony_1892

21-01-2009, 09:35 AM

The TRS was changed in the budget it was increased to 25% from 20% for first time buyers and it was reduced to 20% from 25% for second/third time etc so it all depends which category you fall into daz

yeah mine went from €166 to €187 a month

GaryMc

22-01-2009, 01:57 PM

Microsoft cutting 5000 jobs

http://www.breakingnews.ie/business/mhsnojidmhgb/

pam

22-01-2009, 02:01 PM

Superquinn and chartbusters, added to list of massive job loss, none of us are safe

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0107/chartbusters.html

Liverpoolno9

22-01-2009, 02:02 PM

Far from over and growth in the Irish economy next, well this year is predicted to be -5.6% which is 4% worse than the EU average!

Dundalk

22-01-2009, 06:00 PM

Not looking good is it?

I work in retail and TBH i dont think Ill have a job by the summer

MrsStevieG

22-01-2009, 06:19 PM

Far from over and growth in the Irish economy next, well this year is predicted to be -5.6% which is 4% worse than the EU average!

Yep I read that the other day -apparantly we will be one of the worst in Europe and only Latvia will be worse off in terms of growth:eek:

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/only-latvia-has-a-worse-economy-than-ireland-in-eu-1607574.html

Dub13

23-01-2009, 08:42 AM

Some good news at last...

IKEA names date for Dublin opening
Friday, 23 January 2009 07:31

IKEA has told RTE News that it will open its 31,000 square metre store in Ballymun in north Dublin on Monday July 27.

The company will employ 500 people in its store which specialises in flat pack furniture. It will begin recruiting for 395 floor staff positions in the middle of March. The company has already recruited 55 managers and is about to start a recruitment drive for supervisors.

An Bord Pleanála approved the store in 2007 despite concerns about its impact on the wider retail environment. It is estimated the some 2.3 million visits were made to IKEA in Belfast last year with large numbers travelling from the south.

Liverpoolno9

23-01-2009, 08:54 AM

Jockser

27-01-2009, 02:40 PM

ah the good old "rescue money"
http://www.iht.com/articles/reuters/2009/01/25/europe/OUKWD-UK-FINANCIAL-UN-DRUGS.php

tells us something we dont know already!

Liverpoolno9

27-01-2009, 04:08 PM

"Owners of capital will stimulate the working class to buy more and more of expensive goods, houses and technology, pushing them to take more and more expensive credits, until their debt becomes unbearable. The unpaid debt will lead to bankruptcy of banks, which will have to be nationalised, and the State will have to take the road which will eventually lead to communism"

Karl Marx, Das Kapital, 1867

Daz

27-01-2009, 04:15 PM

General

31-01-2009, 02:24 PM

Although obviously places opening up and more jobs being created is good news - staff at an IKEA are more likely to be mostly part time staff and students so not the major boost that is needed.

The glimmer of hope I see is Obama's election. i mean people in the US are so positive about it and hopefully that will lead to them being more care free and spend a bit and then once Americas economy gets back on track (and I know it will take a lot for it to happen but the new President has certainly come along with all these ideas of change and hope and it seems to be reflected int he US Citizens attitudes too), inevitably the rest of the Western world will follow suit!

I am a big Obama supporter but his policy on Ireland is to make the big multinationals pay their tax in America and stop them using Ireland and other low corporation tax countries as tax havens. Would be a disaster for this country if that policy is aggresively pursued as the muppets who run the country have bet the future of the country on foreign investment.

Jockser

01-02-2009, 12:06 PM

well if you watch this, reality might kick in a little, this slump is going to hammer america much harder this year and we are all going to suffer!
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=lNS8IY_Td14

stamullenredmen

01-02-2009, 10:52 PM

i know theres a few people here clued up on shares.is it worth taking a long term punt on the banks when the prices are so bad??if i done it i would be looking to hold the shares for something around 20 years anyway!!!and how do you actually go about getting shares

Jockser

01-02-2009, 10:56 PM

contact any stock broker like davies www.davies.ie or dolmens www.dolmenstockbrokers.ie etc

im sure people in here would tell you it would be a good idea but i wouldnt touch them for at least another 18 months. there are alot of banks up shit creak even if you are not hearing it in the news

stamullenredmen

01-02-2009, 11:19 PM

fair dues jockser,being honest it will be after the other half gets back off maternity leave which is the summer at the earliest.cant see things improving for a few years yet let alone by the summer

Jockser

01-02-2009, 11:46 PM

if you do contact the brokers it would be interesting to hear what they advise you mate! if i had money to invest this year id put it in gold www.gold.ie (for 18 to 24 months) until the markets start to sort themselves out. Gold price will go up this year im quite certain. Im no expert in this stuff though by any stretch of the imagination.

GaryMc

12-02-2009, 08:49 PM

bryanod

12-02-2009, 09:43 PM

watching Primetime about the banking crisis. The figures are off the rictor. What a bunch of clowns!!! PTSB loaned Anglo Irish 7 Billion the day before their figures for the year were to be released. How do these goons think that these things will not get noticed.

Lenihan is in for a grilling. Sometimes I feel sorry for him as he is trying to clean up the mess of other muppets before him.

First off, McWilliams is a f**king know-it-all, know-nothing, c*nt.

Second, I too feel for Lenihen, only in the job 8 months and getting the blame for problems that had nothing to do with our country first off, and that we could have done nothing to stop except stop teh irrational exuberance about 10 years ago.

you know how Fine Gael were taking credit for the Celtic Tiger since they were in power 15years ago or wahtever, are they taking credit for its aftermath too?

bobby benitez

12-02-2009, 09:47 PM

Does anyone think a change of goverment would help us out of this mess?

I think not, it would give FG and Labour years of excuses just constantly blaming FF. It would be true, but of no help to anyone.

Let the c*nts earn their money for once.

redabbey

12-02-2009, 09:55 PM

Brian Lenihan would have a lot more credibility if he stopped dying his hair:)

Paul

19-03-2009, 10:46 AM

CREDIT CRUNCH TIPS!!!!

DON'T waste money on expensive ipods. Simply think of your favourite tune
and hum it. If you want to "switch tracks", simply think of another song you
like and hum that instead.

DON'T waste money on expensive paper shredders to avoid having your identity
stolen. Simply place a few dog turds in the bin bags along with your old
bank statements.

HOMEOWNERS: Prevent burglars stealing everything in the house by simply
moving everything in the house into your bedroom when you go to bed. In the
morning, simply move it all back again.

SAVE money on expensive personalised car number plates by simply changing
your name to match your existing plate. - Mr. KVL 741Y,

DON'T waste money buying expensive binoculars; simply stand closer to the
object you wish to view.

AN empty aluminium cigar tube filled with angry wasps makes an inexpensive
vibrator.

MANCHESTER UNITED FANS can save money on expensive new kits by simply
strapping a large fake penis to your forehead. It is now clear to all, as to
your allegiance.

SAVE electricity by turning off all the lights in your house and walking
around wearing a miner's hat.

HOUSEWIVES, the best way to get two bottles of washing-up liquid for the
price of one is by putting one in your shopping trolley and the other in
your coat pocket.

OLD telephone directories make ideal personal address books, simply cross
out the names and address of people you don't know.

SAVE on booze by drinking cold tea instead of whisky. The following morning
you can create the effects of a hangover by drinking a thimble full of
washing up liquid and banging your head repeatedly on the wall.

SAVE a fortune on laundry bills. Give your dirty shirts to Oxfam, they will
wash and iron them and you can buy them back for fifty pence.

OLD people, if you feel cold indoors this winter, simply pop outside for ten
minutes without a coat, when you go back inside you will really feel the
benefit.

CAN'T afford contact lenses? Simply cut out small circles of cling film and
press them into your eyes.

WHY pay the earth for expensive jigsaws? Just take a bag of frozen chips
from the freezer and try piecing together potatoes.

MIX tea with coffee, and leave in the fridge to cool. Hey presto! Toffee.

MAKE your own inexpensive mints by leaving blobs of toothpaste to dry on a
window sill. Use striped toothpaste to make humbugs.

SHOPPERS, when buying oranges, get more for your money by peeling them
before taking them to the counter to be weighed.

WOMEN: Don't waste energy faking orgasms. Most men couldn't care less anyway
and you could use the saved energy to Hoover the house afterwards.

redabbey

19-03-2009, 11:00 AM

I have never seen deals as cheap as these at Dublin Airport for advance booking

Quickpark (http://www.quickpark.ie/) €5 per day or part

Aer Rianta (https://www.dublinairport.com/parking/prodbook.asp?pr=dubiw&p=p) €4.50 per day or part. + you can check in 2 hours early.

rampant hair

19-03-2009, 01:54 PM

First off, McWilliams is a f**king know-it-all, know-nothing, c*nt.

Second, I too feel for Lenihen, only in the job 8 months and getting the blame for problems that had nothing to do with our country first off, and that we could have done nothing to stop except stop teh irrational exuberance about 10 years ago.

you know how Fine Gael were taking credit for the Celtic Tiger since they were in power 15years ago or wahtever, are they taking credit for its aftermath too?

Hardly. Lenihan is taking the flak for the government, not personally. And when his boss is the former Minister for Finance then it is more than justified. Also how many times have they had to re estimate exquecher borrowing requirements? They were warned that they were way off with the estimates. "Oops need more....... oops still short, uh ohh this is worse still"

Our country have everything to do with the current problems. We sucked in all the cheap credit we could, swirled it around at a multiplier of god knows what, making a golden triangle of property developers, bankers and politicians very wealthy. We, like UK America and Spain are up to our necks in debt. Can't blame anyone else for that.

And then throw in the cronyism and bribery. Tribunals costing millions annd getting nowhere

Light touch regulation in the IFSC, SIV lites and the like, "ahhh yeah bring them to Ireland we'll take the fees you won't get any grief from the regulators"

Fine Gael are happy to be in opposition, but Fianna Fail are corrupt to the core.