The Constitutional Referenda Apologies If there is a thread on this but I don't see one. What do people think of the two upcoming referendums? I think it's scary how little attention they are getting in general considering how important they are.
I honestly didn't know there was two referendums until i seen them ads on the tv a few weeks ago. The judges pay one is pretty straight forward i think, of course it should be reduced, it'll save money for Ireland and the taxpayer. The other referendum is a bit weird though. Who will be looking into whom?
honestly think ill vote no on both of them because its been like a hush up job with them.julian lee wrote a bit on his blog about it that makes sense,he posts on here the odd time think his name is jules76lfc http://anirishred.tumblr.com/post/11770265364/vote-no-no-and-whoever-on-thursday gonna suss it out a bit more i dont like the fact the government of the country are setting themselves up as an alternative to the courts with the public enquiry one if i can find out more though i could change my mind
You're right, i think the one you're referring to should be voted no but surely we should vote yes on reducing judges pay.
l'll be voting yes to both of them. There's making them fierce complicated/propaganda in the media and you have the usual arty fartys explaining why the changes are so complex. But my tupence is that the Judges pay is protected in the constitution, which was written nearly a Century ago so this has to change to protect their elite status. They're a lot of talk about the independence of the Judiciary and all that but my personal opinion is that some of these lads are living in cloud cuckoo land and a dose of reality to see what the rabble have to deal will do them no harm what so ever. So that's a yes. The other one is bascially to give the Oireachtas, which is basically a talk shop for arty farties like Norris, more powers. Again can't see any harm in them doing some real work. Again there is a big dramatic debate about whether that would give too much power but I'm sure the legal eagles will be shitting themselves. So Yes again for me. If you want to get into it deeper, it's all here, http://www.referendum2011.ie/ there's also a good debate on politics.ie http://www.politics.ie/forum/oireachtas-inquiry-referendum-2011/
I read that thred and I would disagree totally with his point on the judges pay. This stuff about their independence is a total red herring. They have to be independent to their jobs and will be 100% independent if/when their pay is cut. They'll just be working for less money like the mere mortals that they cast judgement on. Also, as regards taking a voluntary cut the majority had to be dragged kicking and screaming to sign up to that for the best part of a Year. There are also currently exempt from the public service pension contribution which is a joke as their publicly paid pensions will amount to millions each !!! The misinformation out there is mind boggling.
I think you should reconsider on the second referendum if your reason is to shake up the "legal eagles." In reality the legal eagles will not be shook by either referendum. They will be (and are) shook by the legislation published at the behest of the IMF which is about to rip the professions apart and meld them. With the referendum you're talking about handing TD's (who most people are lambasting as incompetent a lot of the time) an incredible amount of power. That is not misinformation that is the truth. And I can guarantee that, for example, if they were looking in to your affairs, coming in to your house and going through you're stuff, and setting up an inquiry where they were breaching what would be considered a breach of fair procedures (matters of evidence, due process, right to silence, right to representation etc) you would run to the nearest legal eagle. Guess what though? If the constitution is changed then you'll have to accept what the "arty farties" in the Dail tell you to. And what they say about your good name will be there for all to see.
Have to disagree wwith giving Oireachtas more power, most tds don't even know how to turn a ****in computer on, giving them this sort of power would be dangerous.
I can guarantee you they won't be coming into my house, " going through your stuff ". I have nothing to hide so whether they do or don't it wouldn't matter a fart to me. Compliments on the melodrama mind you, very spectacular stuff. I guess you'll be voting no to the amendment so ??? by the way when I said " the legal eagles will be shitting themselves " I was taking the piss. How many of the bankers have been locked up for bankrupting the Country ? Answer NIL. Keep this debate up mind, it's brings a bit of melodrama to what will be a load of bollocks either way,
You could be right. I don't have any agneda I was only giving my tuppence. I don't give a shite if that one is a yes or no because the political elite in this Country will not be impacted on either way in my opinion. It's all cliches and jobs for the boys in our Emerald Isle.
This is exactly the type of cronyism and cloud cuckoo land stuff I'm on about...over 2 grand for a wig...€250k in expenses. They should make they buy their stupid wigs in Aldi, like the rest of us. Why the fcuk do they wear wigs in the first place ???? Courts employ 75 tipstaffs but no post advertised publicly http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/1022/1224306301021.html
Obviously. The point is not whether you think they will be going through your stuff. You have no idea the wide range of the power they will have and that was just an example. It's not melodramatic in the slightest by the way...they just need to specify that in the legislation. The European Commission have that power when it comes to companies. Why don't you think the committees would do that for certain inquiries? This will impact on everyone either in the public service (like Guards, doctors, nurses etc) or in the private sector (working in finance, law, business etc). TD's WILL use these inquiries for the reason you're voting yes to it which is the biggest irony of all! They are going to use them to make it look like they are doing a bit of work. They will open inquiries to aid the parish pump. The bankers have not been locked up. That doesn't mean that this is the answer to the problem.
The enquiry referendum is troubling,been reading a bit of it..and it seems to me, that its vauge that a citizen can clear his name in the courts,after being before these politicans,or am i wrong in that? Going to have to read a bit more before i make up my mind on that one.
The word plebiscite comes from the Latin plebiscita, which originally meant a decree of the Concilium Plebis, the popular assembly of the Roman Republic. Referendums and referenda are both commonly used as plurals of referendum. However, the use of referenda is deprecated by the Oxford English Dictionary, which advises that: “ Referendums is logically preferable as a plural form meaning ballots on one issue (as a Latin gerund, referendum has no plural). The Latin plural gerundive referenda, meaning things to be referred, necessarily connotes a plurality of issues. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendum
with regard to the referendums, im of the opinion you should never ever vote to give the state more power. the more powerful the state is, the less off the people of that state will be in freedom, wealth and almost every other aspect of life. history has proven it time and time again. the smaller the government the more free and prosperous a society is. vote to give those absolutely useless w**kers more power at your peril.
If people vote to give them cnuts more power we really do deserve all that happens to us. And we'll only have ourselves well the eejits who thought it was a good idea to blame. They are trying to hide the referendums, and are doing a good job of it. This really will be the one that no one knows about.
I'm voting to cut judges pay..I'm not impressed by this legislature/judiciary argument..many current judges are political appointments..and would you get to be a top job without having some political afiliation, I don't think so.. On the other one, while I acknowledge the good work of the dirt tribunal I'm not sure I don't think I want to give Michael Lowry any more power that he already has....