Rafa in or out?

[dubit10]

Simple question.Myself i think we will go close in the champs league this year and will always do well in europe under him,but lets face it.....he will never win us the league:(So it's a simple question.Rafa out or in?

[StevieGisMyIdol]

IN!! Fair enough what your saying but who would you like to succeed him that is any better or isn't Jose Mourinho ??!!

[Yoko]

No changes mid-season. Judgement at the end of this season for me. Provisional In

[Aido82]

he's borderline now

[Beglin's Peg]

Tough call, especially after tonights effort. At the end of the season he'll be 4 seasons in charge and it looks like we'll finish at least 10-15 points behind the champions unless we put a long winning run together. We are just too defensive to win the league, you need a lot of flair along with a solid back 4 to win it. His play suits the Champions League. Rafa is not going to change the way he sets his teams out to play IMO. Unless he wins the Champions League I can't see him being around next season.

[mypost]

If you were chairman and gave the boss €70 million to spend in the close season, and you find yourself 12 points behind with half the season to go, would you keep him?

[Gerry]

Another rafa out thread after we drop points (not one of the rafa out brigade from this site was willing to post anything in the previous rafa out threads and could not decide on who they wanted instead), mad how they never appear after a win or any run of wins !

Everyone entitled to thier opinion but i would most definitely say in and i choose to keep supporting him and our team !

[StevieGisMyIdol]

Everyone here is saying "Rafa out etc" but who would you choose to replace him ???:confused:

[JOE]

No chance, not mid season...the club would be in disarray...I will reserve judgement until the end of the season...and more importantly, who would be his replacement? Other than Mourinho I can't think of anyone that could go straight in and make an impact...look at Ramos and Spurs...he may be a top coach but he would still need time...

[dubit10]

Another rafa out thread after we drop points (not one of the rafa out brigade from this site was willing to post anything in the previous rafa out threads and could not decide on who they wanted instead), mad how they never appear after a win or any run of wins !

Everyone entitled to thier opinion but i would most definitely say in and i choose to keep supporting him and our team !

I never said rafa out.I just said he will never win us the league.hand on heart do you really think the team has improved in the league(not europe) since the roy evans,G.H. years.I think for one we are playing worse football than under either of those managers.Just an opinion

[dubit10]

Everyone here is saying "Rafa out etc" but who would you choose to replace him ???:confused:

Wenger.His teams play football like the game should be played

[Beglin's Peg]

I'm not calling for Rafa's head but i just think that the Yanks will decide that he's had long enough in charge if we finish a distance away from the title again but then again he can't really be replaced if the Champions League is won.

I am unhappy with the defensive way we play having being brought up in the late seventies and eighties. I just wish he'd let his teams go after the opposition and outplay them more often. The way he set that team up tonight was a disgrace to the name of Liverpool Football Club.

I'd wait until the end of the season and see how we play between now and then before making any decision.

I agree there are not too many outstanding replacements around at the moment.

[foreverred77]

jc23 its not just about dropping points,its about his decisions regarding the team 1 striker at home against a poor side,makes subs too late in game e.g pennant hasnt played in couple of months and needed to be replaced as he wasnt in the game 2nd half,no babbel on the bench who has been very good when introduced late on,like u said its your opinion and i hope he prove me wrong but i cant see it.

[rev]

I've lost faith in him over the last few weeks, but i think people should wait till the end of the season before calling for his head

[StevieGisMyIdol]

Wenger.His teams play football like the game should be played

Ha,I totally agree with you mate but as if hes gonna leave arsenal!He just has to put up his feet for the next 5 years because his young players are unbelievable !!and are going to get better.

[mypost]

but i think people should wait till the end of the season before calling for his head

Why wait for 4 months to take action? Did Chelsea wait until the end of the season to fire Mourinho? Has it weakened them?

The fans booed tonight, and rightly so. As Souness, Evans, and Houllier before him (and even Steve Staunton) discovered, once you lose the backing of the fans, there's only one result...

...exit stage left.

[Aido82]

Lets face it, fortress anfield is no more.

Fans booed tonight, one person wants rafa gone the other is willing to give him another chance. How many chances does rafa want. he knew the other 3 teams won yesterday and he knew we had to beat wigan.

What does he do, nothing. we bought babel for 10 million and he doesnt even get a decent break, every time he has played he has been dangerous and exciting to watch.

We were almost out of europe after two games, but we pulled it round, premership is gone out of sight with 19 games played. Same old story.

Saw the interview he gave on sky after words and he still cant face the truth, always avoiding the question.


Another rafa out thread after we drop points (not one of the rafa out brigade from this site was willing to post anything in the previous rafa out threads and could not decide on who they wanted instead), mad how they never appear after a win or any run of wins !


I know how it seems, i said the same when the last thread was out, but last few games. Drew with wigan and city, beat derby 2-1 with a last minute goal, lost to united, beat portsmouth who were brutal that day.

And i dont know who could replace him, ill be honest, as i said before at the moment i would class the in or out at borderline, but something needs to be done soon

[mypost]

And you shudder to think how much worse it could have got, if SG was allowed to leave the club....:eek:

[YNWA]

Firstly that booing crap disgusts me, secondly JC why the feck would people call for his head after 'a run of wins', of which we haven't had too many, of course not, don't be stupid. At the start of every year recently and most prominently this season, Liverpool are title contenders, come christmas they are not. That's just not acceptable, i'm still not sure on Rafa out or not, if he wins the European Cup, he'll probably stay, if he wins the FA cup then maybe not so much, but really it's just going to be the same thing next season, and the season after that, if Liverpool fans are happy to put up with that it's one thing, but i severely doubt the yanks will be.

As to who will replace him, it's hard to say, but i'm sure they could find someone.

[mypost]

In fairness to RB, he's in a no win situation in these games. Win, and nobody gives a toss, not win and all hell breaks loose.

But that's the way it is nowadays, and we simply can't afford to not beat the likes of Wigan and Birmingham at home. If it was a one-off, you could accept it, but because it isn't, this has been going on for 4 years now; someone has to be accountable, and that is the boss.

[paddypower111]

i know he,s done well to get us to 2 european finals and an fa cup final and i hate saying this because iv great time 4 rafa. but in my eyes all season rotate rotate rotate. players playing with eachother 4 90mins and then there confidence and will to win the next 1 is smashed by u need a break 4 next saturdays game. what kind of managment is that there not playing in boiling hot tempitures. rafa has got it wrong in the leauge this season by not playing his best side week in week out. its only now alex feckin fergusion is starting to rotate a bit. and we done it from day 1 and it effected us in the leauge and lads were very lucky to be in the CL knockout stages. and the treatment of crouch i don,t like either giving him 5 mins to win a game 4 us is great managment style. so look in my own opinion if we got rid of him 2 morrow it would nt be the worst thing in life and we get a maneger that get us a team working together as a team and know buy next august what he needs to get this club back to were it belongs . im sorry but iv lost faith in rafa end of story i feel bad sayingt this but its just the way i feel at the moment its sad to be saying this about a man i thought would bring us the title back but to me it doesent look like its going to happin

[Pimboli]

[QUOTE=Beglin's Peg;25117]Tough call, especially after tonights effort. At the end of the season he'll be 4 seasons in charge and it looks like we'll finish at least 10-15 points behind the champions unless we put a long winning run together. QUOTE]

I disagree 12 points behind the gooners and our game at hand no sure thing we will need to put a huge run together JUST to finish 10-15 points behind the way things are going considering we have to play the big 3 all away.

With Arsenal/Chelsea losing players to the African Nations Utd are the most likely to really push on and I can see them doing us by 20 points the way things are going.

[LiverKing]

Don't believe that we should get rid of Rafa mid season(unless instant world class replacement). But still believe we have a good enough squad to be doing mucg much better. Have been totally bewildered by this seasons team selection's week in week out. Why not try Babel up front, Kuyt is workhouse but obvious it is not working! Sort it out RAFA... The league should be no 1 priority.

[KOP Season Ticket Holder]

Dead poor last night but i hate it how after each blip our fans want Rafa out ! :(

[stunnedmullet]

Echoing many of the opinions here, still think he should be given at least to the end of season.

It becomes harder and harder to defend him with some of the mystifying team selections and decisions. On last night alone:
- 4-5-1 at home to Wigan
- Pennant starting, and playing 85 minutes (?!?)
- Crouch on the bench for 85 minutes
- Babel not on the bench at all
- 2 defensive midfielders (was this the same team he will select for the next CL away leg!?!)

I still firmly believe we won't win the league not because of Rafa, but because the squad is simply not good enough (2 world class players short), but it really is hard to explain/defend some of his decisions

[YNWA]

Dead poor last night but i hate it how after each blip our fans want Rafa out ! :(

They're definitely more than blips. Ok, in a sense it seems like that because Liverpool are so patchy, i.e. losing to teams away and beating them 8 nil at home, but this is more than a blip, this is year after year being out of the title race come the new year.

[trucker]

Lads lets call a spade a spade here are we any better off know than we were at the end of Houlliers reign? Our manager played 1 up front against a team in the relegation zone, come on its time for a change we will NEVER win the league with Rafa in charge and people are very blinkerd if they think otherwise, yes we got to 2 Champions league finals but lets not forget it was Rafa who cost us the Athens final with a crazy team selection, the yanks maybe pricks and I for 1 wish we'd gone with DIC but maybe there right in thinking Rafa's not the right man for the job. I'd make the change ASAP as thers no point giving him more money to blow on players and then not play them(Babel) been an example, or spending it on more shite such as Kuyt.

[sean]

I really hate seeing these sort of threads started up everytime we don't get a winning result. For some people, not all, the easy answer is to just get rid of the manager and bring in someone else to finish the job that Rafa has started. The way I see it Rafa came in and had a lot of dead wood to clear out before he could even think of moulding his own team. Not having the funds of the teams ahead of us has also been a major factor, and you could argue that was Rafa to finish 3rd every year based on the financial resources he has compared to other clubs, then surely he would be exceeding expectations.

I'm convinced Rafa will lead us to the title, he just needs more time and perhaps a board who will release the purse strings a bit. There is all talk of the vast amounts of money he has spent, but look at the amount he has brought in just to try and finance further transfers.

[Aido82]

What happened to his 5 year plan, we are now 4 years in and still no closer to winning the league.

I still reckon we will finish between 17 - 20 points off the champions this season, which is unacceptable

[Badman]

I really hate seeing these sort of threads started up everytime we don't get a winning result. For some people, not all, the easy answer is to just get rid of the manager and bring in someone else to finish the job that Rafa has started. The way I see it Rafa came in and had a lot of dead wood to clear out before he could even think of moulding his own team. Not having the funds of the teams ahead of us has also been a major factor, and you could argue that was Rafa to finish 3rd every year based on the financial resources he has compared to other clubs, then surely he would be exceeding expectations.

I'm convinced Rafa will lead us to the title, he just needs more time and perhaps a board who will release the purse strings a bit. There is all talk of the vast amounts of money he has spent, but look at the amount he has brought in just to try and finance further transfers.

i'm not one 4 rash decisions but after 4 yrs inthe job we should b at least challenging 4 the title - i just cant c us making up the 13pts needed to b champions - we'd have 2 win every game til the end of the season - and that aint gonna happen
But he'll def get til end of the seasn - if we're 4th again as in the last season under houllier then i think he'll get the sack.
ive been v disapponted with the league perormances and neg tactics this season- esp at anfield. But trying to find a top man to replace himwill b next to impossible.
Maybe rijkard or ancelloti - i dont know really. If we were improving every year and gettig closer, or if we were developing and buyig real top young talent, then i'd accept not winning the league. But we're failing on both acconts, and i think most people dont trust him to tun it around. His purchases for the most part have been poor or average at best - and the yanks are not goin to throw money at him willy nilly.
Take out torres and gerard's goals and we're newcastle or westham in terms of league posn. i'm seriously worried we wont get 4th.
IAt the end of the day, i reckon the yanks will call time on rafas reign in may...unless we win cl and thats not lkely.
4-5-1 against wigan, please xplain. he's a very strange man rafa, and on 3 or 4 times this season he has vouched "bad luck"as a reasn for defeat, thas loser talk and its crap. Its the last bastion of the desperat manager.
We need change thats obvious, esp ofensively.Will rafa make that change, thats e questin. I don think this leopard will ever change hi spots!!

[hotelformule1]

I'm in 2 minds on Rafa, the Chap has given everything to the cause but he has made a lot of dodgy decisions which backfire on him. When Rafa has been allowed to spend big money on players, they have generally proved their worth (e.g Reina, Xabi, Torres). Again its the old adage of "you get what you pay for", so this might put things into perspective a bit;

United: Hargreaves (£20m), Ferdinand (£29m), Rooney (£22-30m), Nani (£15m)

Chelsea: Essien (£22m), Carvalho (£18m), Drogba (£24m), Wright-Phillips (£17m)

Liverpool: Sissoko (£6m), Agger (£6m), Kuyt (£9m), Pennant (£8m)

I know Arsene Wenger has worked miracles in the transfer market for only a fraction of Rafa's outlay, but there is a huge gulf between what United/Chelsea are spending and clearly that is what can make the difference on the pitch. While i dont think that Ferdinand is almost 5 times better than Agger, the more you pay the better quality you get. If the yanks don't give Rafa this kind of cash, it really will be hard to catch up with United/Chelsea.

Either way he should be given to the end of the season. If a new manager comes in he will want a rake of cash no doubt and then of there is the "period of transition".

[Murph]

Of the three strikers that could have played wih Torres, all three have been slated in all the forums, so he decides to let SG go forward as him and Torres have been doing the bizz, last night they never, just the one goa from one of our best and we draw.

The boo boys are disgraceful not getting into arguing over Rafa in or out i have my opinion like you all have yours. In for me but is he trying to get the sack i wonder, lets just see.

[irishroey]

as a newbie here i never posted before about taking rafa's head and im not going to start now,imo i just dont think he does be all there at times last nite was a disgrace,kop on would tell you that if you buy a 10m player in the summer and in january he hasnt broke fully into the starting 11 and has been a huge impact sub then when you play wat everyone would regard as a weaker opposition you should start him and not a plyer who has been out with injury,rafa seems to think he can use this rotation system boll**e and rest key players for lesser important games but the thing is there is none when you want to win the league every game is a cup final,rafa has brought us good times but they could be better.

[SUPERFAN]

as i said before unless he delivers the CL this Season i think he's gone.
last Night was the final Nail in the Premier League Coffin and Rafa knows it,have you ever seen him behave like that before?
even if they were to Win the CL again would the Owners give him the necessary Financial Backing to improve the Squad further?
i have my doubts.
by the end of this Month we'll know if the Owners have lost Faith in Rafa.if they have(i think they have)he's not going to be around for much longer.....

[fitzpatrickgary]

im torn i like rafa a lot but some of his decisions frustrate me so much ......... lack of attacking ,rotation
part of me thinks he could bring the title (cant see it this season but live in hope) but i have a fear it wont happen and it could sent us back further in getting no. 19 with another manager having to rebuild all over again
he has brought us sucess in cups which i will be forever grateful but like every red i want the league
maybe losen the purse strings now to add to the squad and make a good push to get close to the top and take it from there

[YNWA]

as i said before unless he delivers the CL this Season i think he's gone.
last Night was the final Nail in the Premier League Coffin and Rafa knows it,have you ever seen him behave like that before?
even if they were to Win the CL again would the Owners give him the necessary Financial Backing to improve the Squad further?
i have my doubts.
by the end of this Month we'll know if the Owners have lost Faith in Rafa.if they have(i think they have)he's not going to be around for much longer.....

What did he do?

Agree with everything there avid.

[RedMurph08]

When Rafa has been allowed to spend big money on players, they have generally proved their worth (e.g Reina, Xabi, Torres). Again its the old adage of "you get what you pay for", so this might put things into perspective a bit;

United: Hargreaves (£20m), Ferdinand (£29m), Rooney (£22-30m), Nani (£15m)

Chelsea: Essien (£22m), Carvalho (£18m), Drogba (£24m), Wright-Phillips (£17m)

Liverpool: Sissoko (£6m), Agger (£6m), Kuyt (£9m), Pennant (£8m)

If the yanks don't give Rafa this kind of cash, it really will be hard to catch up with United/Chelsea.

Either way he should be given to the end of the season. If a new manager comes in he will want a rake of cash no doubt and then of there is the "period of transition".

This is a very valid point... IF a new guy is going to come in how much is he going to be looking to make his own squad?? 60? 70 million? Rafa has been working with quite a few 2nd rate signings and hoping to unearth a "diamond" from the rough. For far too long now we have been usurped in the transfer market by Mancs and Chelski, whenever they declare interest in one of our "targets" we do not have the financial clout to compete! Plus whenever they really want a player they get them no ifs no buts....... Shevchenko, Drogba, Hargreaves, Rooney to name but a few.... how many times can we say this?? Torres?
Yes Wenger has worked miracles..... but remember when those"kids" were cleaning the boots at Highbury Arsenal had a squad assembled that could compete at the top for 5 years no problem..... so the transition was more natural than bleeding 5 foreigners straight into your 1st team!

All im saying is for the board to come out openly and back Rafa......
Let him get his no.1 transfer targets not the 2nd or 3rd option and generate some of the money from getting rid of the "dead wood" at Anfield. We dont want to put up with 2nd best and Rafa shouldnt have to either. Guys he is one of the best there is out there and i for one will be gutted if he goes!
Rant over.........

p.s. I dont want to start on the "are we any better from G.H/Evans days" shame on you!

[Pimboli]

Lets have a look at Rafa logic. Birmingham play us at Anfield under Bruce Rafa leaves Torres on the bench as he cant play when there is no space. Wigan come to Anfield under Bruce and play the same way what does Rafa do play Torres up top on his own.

For me I lost faith in Rafa after the Reading game when he came out and basically said with 20 minutes to go the game was up so he took off his best players. No other manager with aspirations of winning the league would have such a defeatest outlook. To me that was the day he said, yeah Id like to win the league, but not as much as the fans I have more important things to worry about like Europe. Look at the Spurs/Reading game to see what can happen in 20 mins.

He'll probably rest Torres & Stevie now in the FA Cup as it is a nothing cup and then if Boro manage to put one over us will give up on the league and rest everyone for the Inter games and if Inter knock us out will rest everyone for next season just cause he likes to be unpredictible.

[GaryMc]

After the games over the xmas period, I have to say I am deeply conerned, unless Stevie G or Torres do something, there is **** all else there when it counts. The Derby game was surreal.

We have Reina, Carragher and Agger at the back, I would not be annoyed if any other player in the squad was let go apart from those, Stevie G and Torres.

Finnan, Aurelio, Arbeloa, good steady players but not Championship winning material. Masherona, Babel, Alonso, Crouch all have their plus point, but would not cry if they were shipped out.

Riise, Kewell, Sissoko, Vorinin, Pennant and Kuyt are simply not good enough.

the simple fact is that quality of players is not good enough. Benayoun is a good footballer, but no world beater. Masher is a good protective force, but never provides any creativity.

Apart from Torres, Rafa inherited his two best players. There are some similarities with the Houllier reign, trying to fit square pegs in round holes, too much rotation, stupid subsitutions at key times, favouring out of form players etc....

Give Rafa till the end of the season, if we are more than 10 points behind the winners and no success in the cups I would not be too disappointed if he left.

[pajodublin]

the tough get going...
only joking

I have been watching the full 90 mins of our last few matches and to be honest
we haven't been playing badly at all.
Your always gonna have your boo boys and your "Sunshine gang" (as they seem to call it over on Official Boards)
I'm the type of person who believes in a player until he becomes absolutely useless to the club.
For instance: Sissoko, everybody is writing him off and seem to forget how good he can be. I think the perfect thing for him would be a loan deal for the second half of the season and see how he gets on with regular 1st team football.
Kuyt: We havent seen a striker work as hard as him in a long time and although he doesnt get as many goals as say torres, his work rate is amazing (i know thats all we hear about him is his work rate but it does bring alot of value to a game)
Pennant: An awful lot of people on his back as well, although i dont think he should have played vs wigan he is a great squad player who can change a game and is different from our other wingers/wide men like benny onion.

In my opinion theres only two players who should be offloaded and the 1st is kewell. i have alot of respect for him because he has tried since returning from injury but i just think babel is better suited to him in the position.
2nd is Voronin who seems to have put on a bit of weight since joining us (maybe hanging around with Jan Molby :D )
He just doesnt seem suited to the english game

I counted at least 20 "RAFA OUT" threads on the official boards last night. I wouldnt even bother my arse replying because these people only seem to post when things dont go their way.

I personally still have faith in Rafa and the squad (although we do need a few additions) but thats what it is, a squad, a group of players who get paid a shit load of money to play a game, they train 4 or 5 days a week together so should be able to play together no matter what 11 is picked.

I'd like to see a couple of signings in the Transfer window to guarantee us fourth spot.

One of my main beliefs is, i am a firm believer in Fat Ladies, and right now i dont hear one singing
So Keep the heads held high and no matter what happens, the only way is up..

RANT OVER

JFT96
Pajo

[mypost]

Lets have a look at Rafa logic.

He'll probably rest Torres & Stevie now in the FA Cup as it is a nothing cup.

When's our next midweek match?? 4 weeks to West Ham (a)

There's no need to rest players, who only have to play 1 game a week. :confused: :rolleyes:

[Pimboli]

p.s. I dont want to start on the "are we any better from G.H/Evans days" shame on you!

Well what I have said is we have moved on but so have all the other top sides. We are where they were 2-3 seasons ago.

Rafa says we have 7-8 points more than we did last season, fantastic there is an improvement BUT the gooners are 12 points better off than us & Utd 10 so how much of an improvement is that really and the Mancs had a crap start remember.

This is year 4 of the 5 year plan and thats how far off the pace we are at the halfway point.

I'll say one thing for sure we NEVER should have let Garcia go!!!

[Malzheimer]

I really hate seeing these sort of threads started up everytime we don't get a winning result. For some people, not all, the easy answer is to just get rid of the manager and bring in someone else to finish the job that Rafa has started. The way I see it Rafa came in and had a lot of dead wood to clear out before he could even think of moulding his own team. Not having the funds of the teams ahead of us has also been a major factor, and you could argue that was Rafa to finish 3rd every year based on the financial resources he has compared to other clubs, then surely he would be exceeding expectations.

I'm convinced Rafa will lead us to the title, he just needs more time and perhaps a board who will release the purse strings a bit. There is all talk of the vast amounts of money he has spent, but look at the amount he has brought in just to try and finance further transfers.

This would be my view also Sean. It was always going to take a while to build his own team his way. Look at the investment he has spent on our youth. Our reserves are flying high in the league with an average age of 17. We are still 2/3 years behind what Arsene Wenger has achieved with their youth system, so we must try and be patient and wait for this talent to start filtering into the first team. Even Babel was never going to be straight into the first team, its easy to see he has amazing talent but is still a bit raw round the edges. Remember Wenger bought Eduardo for 15million and he is being rotated like Babel is.

Rafa doesn't have the money to be splashing big bucks on the world class players we need right now, so the alternative is to buy them on the cheap when they are young and hopefully they are ready in a couple of years to make the step up to first team football. He is a manager looking at the big picture for our club and some of us as supporters are only thinking short-term. Obviously its frustrating dropping points at home to teams at the wrong end of the Prem but with the form our other front 3 are in I was happy when I saw the team selection last night (although I think Pennant was rushed needlessly back, could have used Yossi or Babel instead). Utd and Chelski have spent their millions and Arsenal have been in a transitional period for the last couple of years waiting for their young stars to flourish.

The future of our club is safe with Rafa, but we need to stay behind him and give him our backing and not give the Yanks an excuse to sack him. Before we leave Anfield I am confident the wait will be over and we will have #19.

[The Chanter]

have you ever seen him behave like that before?


He certainly looked frustrated (slamming his jacket down). Worryingly, the last manager I remember behaving like that was Stan (kicking water bottles around on the touchline.)


But I reckon changing managers would be a backward step. He is a proven manager with experience in the premier league and I think if he is given the funds he can do the business.

I'm not sure if the owners will have the same faith though and it's their money.

[Pimboli]

He certainly looked frustrated (slamming his jacket down). Worryingly, the last manager I remember behaving like that was Stan (kicking water bottles around on the touchline.)


But I reckon changing managers would be a backward step. He is a proven manager with experience in the premier league and I think if he is given the funds he can do the business.

I'm not sure if the owners will have the same faith though and it's their money.

He is a proven manager in La Liga, not the Premiership.

A month ago the world was up in arms at the possibility of Rafa being kicked to the curb now the wagons have begun to start circling with fan disapproval.

[The Chanter]

He is a proven manager in La Liga, not the Premiership.

A month ago the world was up in arms at the possibility of Rafa being kicked to the curb now the wagons have begun to start circling with fan disapproval.

He is a proven manager in on of the top leagues in world football.
He has experience in the Premiership.

Considering the knowledge he has built up over the last few seasons of teams/players in England, I would consider him more capable now than when he arrived. I don't think he's lost the dressing room yet. I don't know about the owners/fans (probably a little worse off than 1month ago but I think the majority of fans would still back him).

As one of the other posters asked, who would you have instead?

[mypost]

Yesterday, Otmar Hitzfeld made himself available for work from next summer. He's won 4 Bundesliga titles, CL, and will probably win a 5th title with Bayern this season. He has the credentials to succeed here. He doesn't accept 4th place as a "good" season.

[Pimboli]

He is a proven manager in on of the top leagues in world football.
He has experience in the Premiership.

Considering the knowledge he has built up over the last few seasons of teams/players in England, I would consider him more capable now than when he arrived. I don't think he's lost the dressing room yet. I don't know about the owners/fans (probably a little worse off than 1month ago but I think the majority of fans would still back him).

As one of the other posters asked, who would you have instead?

Seeing how most people here would burst into flames with rage if Maureen got it, though I think he would win us the PL, Martin O'Neill, got off to a ropey start last year but has come good again this year and thats with an average side.

[Pimboli]

Yesterday, Otmar Hitzfeld made himself available for work from next summer. He's won 4 Bundesliga titles, CL, and will probably win a 5th title with Bayern this season. He has the credentials to succeed here. He doesn't accept 4th place as a "good" season.

Wasnt there talk of Klinsmen too, that he's known to the Yanks. Would turn us into a very attacking team.

[Badman]

He is a proven manager in on of the top leagues in world football.
He has experience in the Premiership.

Considering the knowledge he has built up over the last few seasons of teams/players in England, I would consider him more capable now than when he arrived. I don't think he's lost the dressing room yet. I don't know about the owners/fans (probably a little worse off than 1month ago but I think the majority of fans would still back him).

As one of the other posters asked, who would you have instead?

This is the most pertinent point of all - if we do lose rafa who do u get?? Whether rafa is the man or not i'm still undecided - not as sure as i was after istanbul - but who out there has the right pedigree, track record etc to take us to the next level.
As far as i'm concerned LFC is still undoubtedly the greatest and most successful club in british football - BAR NONE. The players we bring in (be they talented unproven youngsters or seasoned top pros) should reflect that - LFC should never shop at Tescoes and LIDL for our players, never fill the trolley with bargain basement crap. We should be buying top world class players..PERIOD!!
My main concern with rafa, and the players he's continuously linked with, is that they dont match the pedigree of player that this great club has become synomynous with in the past. Muntari, wayne bridge, ulfalusi, khaladze are all OK players, solid pros 4 a uefa chasing side - but i stil ahvent seen us linked with one top class player in any posn - (and we have a lot of positions needing addressing). When rafa's shopping he continuously buys players of tha ilk - i dunno is it cos he's uncomfortable with or doesnt trust "superstars" .
Is there one available manager out there that u can think of with the correct attitude, pedigree etc. that matches the fans ambitions? I'm at a loss really - dunno where this seasons goin - is this what it feels lke to follow Everton??

[mypost]

Unlike Klinsmann, Hitzfeld has won trophies, again and again. If the opportunity arose, you'd be mad to turn someone like him down. He will be highly sought after, probably have a job lined up well before then. Who will look at Klinsmann??

[redeagle]

He is a proven manager in on of the top leagues in world football.
He has experience in the Premiership.

Considering the knowledge he has built up over the last few seasons of teams/players in England, I would consider him more capable now than when he arrived. I don't think he's lost the dressing room yet. I don't know about the owners/fans (probably a little worse off than 1month ago but I think the majority of fans would still back him).

As one of the other posters asked, who would you have instead?

to be honest mate, its not even January and we are already out of the title race and there are 3 other good teams breathing down our next desperate for 4th place.

Rafa had to change whole structure of the club and has only really been able to go after his first choice targets this summer. So he has some sympathy.

But again this season we fail to make an impact against the top 3 clubs. We are inconsistent against teams we should beat (Birmingham, spurs, wigan.. derby) You can always take a one off game as a blip but our performances are inconsistent to the point of irritation.

Our passing is absolutely abysmal, most of our players consistently give the ball away under almost no pressure. While our best passer alonso didn't even start against chelsea in last years semi final.

I'll support the team and rafa as long as is needed but this year has shown a myriad of poor displays both as a unit and individuals.

And Rafa is the obvious blaming point as its his team now.

[south]

i'm suprised the americans don't have him gone already. act first think later

[redeagle]

Unlike Klinsmann, Hitzfeld has won trophies, again and again. If the opportunity arose, you'd be mad to turn someone like him down. He will be highly sought after, probably have a job lined up well before then. Who will look at Klinsmann??

would rather hitzfeld over klinsmann anyday of the week.

Hes in the states now.. he rejected spurs and chelsea apparently so I doubt he would move over for us.

[Pimboli]

would rather hitzfeld over klinsmann anyday of the week.

Hes in the states now.. he rejected spurs and chelsea apparently so I doubt he would move over for us.

I would too but being based in the States and working with the Yanks it might be more apealling to him. Id still prefer Martin O'Neill though.

The problem is Rafa has re-organised the whole club top to bottom the way he wants things from the first team to the youth team, giving him that much power was a bad idea.

[stamullenredmen]

i like rafa myself but i dont think he helps himself by doing things like picking the team he did last night.i listened to it on e season and i sat here at the pc livid but i avoid logging on to any forums after the games and have a think.and heres what a nights sleep and a day in silence at work have concluded for me

were still three or four players short of the league.now thats not an excuse for last night but number one is a player as prolific as nando is in front of goal.if we had him,whoever he may be it wouldve finished maybe two or three one.second is two world class wingers.babel will be world class but we need it now not in three years and i mean scoring wingers like ronaldo.centre half cover is next the uncertainty last night that was caused by having to play arbeloa in there had to have helped in their goal.and bottom of the list is a left back,a good one,wayne bridge was speculated about in the independent.

obviously whats needed for all this is the yanks to actually deliver on their false and empty promises but im not gonna hold my breath on that score.

[Pimboli]

i like rafa myself but i dont think he helps himself by doing things like picking the team he did last night.

So whats his excuse? his job is to pick the best team to win every game and to win the league, I could put my hand on my heart and probably guarantee that not one single Liverpool supporter anywhere in the world looked at that team and formation last night against that oppostion, at home in a game we had to win and thought it was a good idea, not one.

What doest that say? What serious title contenders plays defensively, because thats what 5 in midfield and one up top means at home against a bottom 3 team? Rafa knows the way Bruce sets up against Liverpool very defensively his solution....play one striker, I mean come on!

[StevieGisMyIdol]

Is marcello Lippi available,anyone?

[Liverpool-law]

Reina, Carra, Agger, Masch, Alonso, Gerrard, Torres. We are not that far off a very good team. But the Yanks have NOT done what they said they would do, not by a long shot. 26 million net in spending, and United spent that on one player. Look at the transfer window and United and being linked with Lahm, Berbatov etc. We started from a position way behind Chelsea and United and spending one summer of 26 million net is not going to catch us up. We should be spending that each transfer window for about two years to bridge that kind of gap. But Rafa gets the blame, despite improving the squad. Don't get me wrong, I couldn't understand how with all his rotation he couldn't play Crouch at home when he was the freshest player he had after Christmas, but I think the yanks have sat back and said "we produced the money but Rafa did nothing with it". They're spinning it back on the mananger after false promises of matching the big boys with the spending. United spent more in the summer and will spend more in January, and that's from a position of winning the league last year with a team of players averaging about €10 million each. We cannot compete with that by getting Babel and Torres. It's a good start but we need a central defender, another top class striker and two wingers who will provide and score goals.

[redeagle]

Reina, Carra, Agger, Masch, Alonso, Gerrard, Torres. We are not that far off a very good team. But the Yanks have NOT done what they said they would do, not by a long shot. 26 million net in spending, and United spent that on one player. Look at the transfer window and United and being linked with Lahm, Berbatov etc. We started from a position way behind Chelsea and United and spending one summer of 26 million net is not going to catch us up. We should be spending that each transfer window for about two years to bridge that kind of gap. But Rafa gets the blame, despite improving the squad. Don't get me wrong, I couldn't understand how with all his rotation he couldn't play Crouch at home when he was the freshest player he had after Christmas, but I think the yanks have sat back and said "we produced the money but Rafa did nothing with it". They're spinning it back on the mananger after false promises of matching the big boys with the spending. United spent more in the summer and will spend more in January, and that's from a position of winning the league last year with a team of players averaging about €10 million each. We cannot compete with that by getting Babel and Torres. It's a good start but we need a central defender, another top class striker and two wingers who will provide and score goals.

whats the point of getting these players of rafa fails to get the best out of them.

mate, we played wigan yesterday and drew...at anfield.

A team which has conceded over 20 goals away from home and scored 7. A team which was until last night in the bottom 3. Just a little over a week ago we just scrapped a win against derby..a team so poor they make sunderland look good.

Beaten by teams like marsielle, spurs another draw, Birmingham all at anfield against poor teams and all in the lower half.


He has bough players like kuyt for 10 million and pennant for nearly 8 million.

persisting with players like harry kewel. Our passing is poor, we cannot keep the ball.

You can always argue for rafa but the negatives are starting to mount up against him.

If you are the owner after investing in a club and a manager is asking for more money after a pretty dire start to the season then would you give it to him?


Everything is up in the air at the moment. Very worrying times.

[Liverpool-law]

Redeagle, I was talking more in general terms as opposed to the game last night. I was as p***ed off last night about the result but was just pointing out that in terms of the overall position of the club, we can't possibly compete unless we have the right backing. Kuyt and Co were bought when he couldn't get his first choice buys in fairness. I'm not here to defend Rafa, I'm just trying to get the overall context of the position of the club.

[GaryMc]

whats the point of getting these players of rafa fails to get the best out of them.

mate, we played wigan yesterday and drew...at anfield.

A team which has conceded over 20 goals away from home and scored 7. A team which was until last night in the bottom 3. Just a little over a week ago we just scrapped a win against derby..a team so poor they make sunderland look good.

Beaten by teams like marsielle, spurs another draw, Birmingham all at anfield against poor teams and all in the lower half.


He has bough players like kuyt for 10 million and pennant for nearly 8 million.

persisting with players like harry kewel. Our passing is poor, we cannot keep the ball.

You can always argue for rafa but the negatives are starting to mount up against him.

If you are the owner after investing in a club and a manager is asking for more money after a pretty dire start to the season then would you give it to him?


Everything is up in the air at the moment. Very worrying times.


Have to agree with that, if you analize other games we were blessed to beat Villa, Wigan and then Everton in the Derby. We were outplayed by Arsenal and fortunate to beat Fulham wit a long punt from Reina to Torres. Not one decent chance against Chelsea in the Carling Cup.

I think its been a dreadful first half to the season. Kuyt, Kewell and Riise has been brutal, Sissoko and Vorinin a joke. Crouch has been severly under used. Rafa messed about with the Heinze situation and that left him f***ed when Agger and then Sami got injured. The situation in the Reading game was farcial and the formation last night was beyond belief.

The only positives I can take is that Lucas and Babel look like they could be excellent (Kewell, Riise and Sissoko should be binned asap to give these guys more oppurtunies), Torres has been a revelation and we are still in the Champions League

[GaryMc]

Redeagle, I was talking more in general terms as opposed to the game last night. I was as p***ed off last night about the result but was just pointing out that in terms of the overall position of the club, we can't possibly compete unless we have the right backing. Kuyt and Co were bought when he couldn't get his first choice buys in fairness. I'm not here to defend Rafa, I'm just trying to get the overall context of the position of the club.

Wenger and even Erikison have proved that you can get decent players for the same money we paid for talents like Kuyt, Pennant and Sissoko.

How come we were not in for Elano, Petrov, Sagna and even Ashley Young

[mypost]

You complain that he hasn't had the money. How much did MC spend last summer? What's their home record like? They're now ahead of us, after one summer of spending money. Everton, and Aston Villa aren't that rich either, while Wenger had pittance to play with at Arsenal for at least 5 years. Look what they've done. This bloke has had 4 years to get it right, he's had money to spend every summer, and January, and look what's he done with it. All we have to show for it is an FA Cup and a EC. Where's the League? Bloody hell, where's the LC even??

The bosses of those other clubs have shown that you don't need a new stadium or a wad of cash to be competitive, you just need to make the team more than the sum of it's parts, get the best out of them. Instead we have caution, and rotation.

If you are happy to finish 4th every year, Rafa's the Man. If not, it's time to look at other options, or in Rafa's words, "possibilities".

[Liverpool-law]

Wenger definitely, he can pick a player for nothing, he's without doubt the best for spotting young talent (or has the best scouting system to do so). I'm still not convinced by Sven though, the guy is a jammy ******* if you ask me, he admitted himself he'd only seen them on video. Might as well watch utube;)

[GaryMc]

Wenger definitely, he can pick a player for nothing, he's without doubt the best for spotting young talent (or has the best scouting system to do so). I'm still not convinced by Sven though, the guy is a jammy ******* if you ask me, he admitted himself he'd only seen them on video. Might as well watch utube;)

Fair enough, but where are our Army of scouts when these guys where being snapped up? For me Petrov and Elano have been two of the best players in the league this season. Pace, power and finishing ability

[Liverpool-law]

Fair enough, but where are our Army of scouts when these guys where being snapped up? For me Petrov and Elano have been two of the best players in the league this season. Pace, power and finishing ability

In fairness, I don't think anyone else was in for those players either. As I said, I'm not here to defend Rafa, I just think it's maybe all being placed at his door as his fault which suits the owners (and some of the players) just fine. I'd say Rafa is a stubborn f***er too but anyone who tries to convince me the squad or the club are no better than under Houllier will have a tough job...

[GaryMc]

In fairness, I don't think anyone else was in for those players either. As I said, I'm not here to defend Rafa, I just think it's maybe all being placed at his door as his fault which suits the owners (and some of the players) just fine. I'd say Rafa is a stubborn f***er too but anyone who tries to convince me the squad or the club are no better than under Houllier will have a tough job...

I would agree to some extent, Torres, Agger, Reina defo improvement, hopefully Lucas and Babel in time. The fact remains though that probably the two best players were already at the club in Gerrard and Carragher.

[redeagle]

I don't even think its the personal, its down to rafas tactics.

Its probably the reason we have been so successful in the CL, defending like dogs while hitting them with blistering counter attacks with 3 passes.

Since rafa has been here we have failed to beat teams who park all 11 in front of goal. Difficult but we then lack any sort of creative input from the wide positions or midfield to break them down.

Last night rafa failed to beat wigan..or more importantly has failed to beat a side managed by steve bruce. Thats probably worse than his record against man utd.

I'm really laying into rafa today.. and I did say I would support the team and manager as long as he is here but people are starting to smell the coffee.. myself included.

[GaryMc]

I don't even think its the personal, its down to rafas tactics.

Its probably the reason we have been so successful in the CL, defending like dogs while hitting them with blistering counter attacks with 3 passes.

Since rafa has been here we have failed to beat teams who park all 11 in front of goal. Difficult but we then lack any sort of creative input from the wide positions or midfield to break them down.

Last night rafa failed to beat wigan..or more importantly has failed to beat a side managed by steve bruce. Thats probably worse than his record against man utd.

I'm really laying into rafa today.. and I did say I would support the team and manager as long as he is here but people are starting to smell the coffee.. myself included.


my sentiments exactly :(

[mypost]

more importantly has failed to beat a side managed by steve bruce. Thats probably worse than his record against man utd.

Unfortunately, it's the same. He hasn't beaten them either. :(

In the cups, he's beaten Bruce twice, and Fergie once.

[GaryMc]

Rafa's quotes today, madness if he thinks he does not need to analyse those games, and as for passing the ball well, I dont think there were more than three passes put together against United

there is only so long you can not look at the table :mad:

"We are creating chances but not taking them. One more would have killed the game.

"We deserved more than we got. Their keeper made some very good saves, but we still made enough chances to have won the game.

"The league table is looking difficult, we need to reduce that gap but we must not start to look at the table too much, just keep going and keep creating chances.

"We can reduce the gap, but it is best not to talk about it, just go out and score the goals we are missing."

He added: "It is difficult to explain why our home form is not good. We are controlling all the games, we are passing the ball well, controlling almost everything. But we paid for one mistake.

"There is no need to analyse the four holiday games, we deserved to beat Manchester City, we deserved to win against Wigan, while we beat Portsmouth and Derby, but we have lost four points in these games and it has meant the gap is bigger.

"There is no point being too critical of performances. We know we were much better than City and Wigan but we know we need to win, that is simple."

[Juz]

So Hitzveld (imo too old) and Klinsmann (no club experience)

no thanks.

I agree with the post that says the yanks have not backed him like they promised to do. MY Post is posting on this and other forums that he spent €70 million in the summer. he didnt the net spending was a lot lower than that, but why let the facts get in the way eh.

He has rarely got his first choice targets due to constraints.

Last night was a bad night but I felt it was too casual. The players have to take some of the rap too. Gerrard and those f&*&*&*&* hollywood balls.

The goal was a free kick not dealt with by the defence and gerrards poor clearance hit off mascherano and landed at brambles feet. In fairness he finished it superbly. These things happen.

I still believe he's the man and he should get the rest of the season and then be given the funds in the summer for next season. He should be given his 5 years Houllier was (infact he was given 6). if not itll be at least another 3 years before we even smell a chance at the title.

too many people influnced by watching sky on their barstools me thinks

YNWA

JUZ

[mypost]

We currently stand in 5th, well behind the leaders. There are many bosses in the league who would love to have his resources.

If he was still with Valencia, it wouldn't be an issue, with the results he's had this season alone, he'd be gone. So why should we persist with him, just to say he was there until the end of the season?

[Paul]

You complain that he hasn't had the money. How much did MC spend last summer? What's their home record like? They're now ahead of us, after one summer of spending money. Everton, and Aston Villa aren't that rich either, while Wenger had pittance to play with at Arsenal for at least 5 years. Look what they've done. This bloke has had 4 years to get it right, he's had money to spend every summer, and January, and look what's he done with it. All we have to show for it is an FA Cup and a EC. Where's the League? Bloody hell, where's the LC even??

The bosses of those other clubs have shown that you don't need a new stadium or a wad of cash to be competitive, you just need to make the team more than the sum of it's parts, get the best out of them. Instead we have caution, and rotation.

If you are happy to finish 4th every year, Rafa's the Man. If not, it's time to look at other options, or in Rafa's words, "possibilities".

:confused:
When did Rafa ever finish fourth???

[trucker]

the tough get going...
only joking

I have been watching the full 90 mins of our last few matches and to be honest
we haven't been playing badly at all.
Your always gonna have your boo boys and your "Sunshine gang" (as they seem to call it over on Official Boards)
I'm the type of person who believes in a player until he becomes absolutely useless to the club.
For instance: Sissoko, everybody is writing him off and seem to forget how good he can be. I think the perfect thing for him would be a loan deal for the second half of the season and see how he gets on with regular 1st team football.
Kuyt: We havent seen a striker work as hard as him in a long time and although he doesnt get as many goals as say torres, his work rate is amazing (i know thats all we hear about him is his work rate but it does bring alot of value to a game)
Pennant: An awful lot of people on his back as well, although i dont think he should have played vs wigan he is a great squad player who can change a game and is different from our other wingers/wide men like benny onion.

In my opinion theres only two players who should be offloaded and the 1st is kewell. i have alot of respect for him because he has tried since returning from injury but i just think babel is better suited to him in the position.
2nd is Voronin who seems to have put on a bit of weight since joining us (maybe hanging around with Jan Molby :D )
He just doesnt seem suited to the english game

I counted at least 20 "RAFA OUT" threads on the official boards last night. I wouldnt even bother my arse replying because these people only seem to post when things dont go their way.

I personally still have faith in Rafa and the squad (although we do need a few additions) but thats what it is, a squad, a group of players who get paid a shit load of money to play a game, they train 4 or 5 days a week together so should be able to play together no matter what 11 is picked.

I'd like to see a couple of signings in the Transfer window to guarantee us fourth spot.

One of my main beliefs is, i am a firm believer in Fat Ladies, and right now i dont hear one singing
So Keep the heads held high and no matter what happens, the only way is up..

RANT OVER

JFT96
Pajo

Are you having a laugh Kuyt is possibly the worse striker to play for the club in the last 30 years and I include Diouf in that at least he had pace and a first touch,his workrate is amazing so what? what ever comes of it does he score goals no, does he set up goals no, he cant head a ball(miss against city was shocking) he has no pace so he runs around like a headless chicken. wake up mate Kuyt is absolute tripe and is not good enough to play in the premier league never mind our team.

[trucker]

[QUOTE=Pimboli;25227]Lets have a look at Rafa logic. Birmingham play us at Anfield under Bruce Rafa leaves Torres on the bench as he cant play when there is no space. Wigan come to Anfield under Bruce and play the same way what does Rafa do play Torres up top on his own.

Thats a brilliantly made point wigan played the exact same way Birmingham did and his excuse for not playing torres was birmingham played to deep, Houllier type comments been made lads.

[vodkacolly]

Im tired and bored of these Rafa in/out threads popping up. Wait till end of season...

[Alex Raisbeck]

I don't even think its the personal, its down to rafas tactics.

Its probably the reason we have been so successful in the CL, defending like dogs while hitting them with blistering counter attacks with 3 passes.



To be honest we have done best in teh CL when we have taken on the big boys, i.e. gone for their throat, Juve, Chelsea, Barca etc.
We havent really played counter attack in them games.
Its just that they dont park the team behind the ball, just play normal attacking football

[dubit10]

So Hitzveld (imo too old) and Klinsmann (no club experience)

no thanks.

I agree with the post that says the yanks have not backed him like they promised to do. MY Post is posting on this and other forums that he spent €70 million in the summer. he didnt the net spending was a lot lower than that, but why let the facts get in the way eh.

He has rarely got his first choice targets due to constraints.

Last night was a bad night but I felt it was too casual. The players have to take some of the rap too. Gerrard and those f&*&*&*&* hollywood balls.

The goal was a free kick not dealt with by the defence and gerrards poor clearance hit off mascherano and landed at brambles feet. In fairness he finished it superbly. These things happen.

I still believe he's the man and he should get the rest of the season and then be given the funds in the summer for next season. He should be given his 5 years Houllier was (infact he was given 6). if not itll be at least another 3 years before we even smell a chance at the title.

too many people influnced by watching sky on their barstools me thinks

YNWA

JUZ

Watching sky on there barstools??:mad: ive been over to Anfield three times this year and only in the derby game did i see any good football played.Im no fan of sky,rte or the rest but i do believe my own eyes when i say the team has not moved on in 4 years.Definetly not in the last two.We cant pass the ball 5 yards anymore and i think besides the fact we arent going to win the premiership with Rafa id settle for some good football from the lads every other game.For fook sake id take kevin keegan over rafa at the moment;).at least his teams passed the ball:D

[RedWally]

Rafa to go or not to go that is the question...

I think we all agree that LFC deserve a world class manager. Is Rafa world class? I think not. He is not on the level of Fergie or Wenger...simple as. Neither of them would throw away stupid points like we did against Reading and Wigan...or would be f**king around with this stupid rotation policy. We have a Champions League final won mainly due to opposition taking the foot off gas in second half when they should/could have buried us. That is what is keeping Rafa his job right now. I'll be slated for it but Houllier's achievements in 2001 would rate higher in my book than what we did in 2005 with mostly Houllier's players.

I have thought long and hard about it over the past few weeks and I think I have lost faith in our current manager. Only a CL win will keep him his job for 08/09 season.

[dc69]

Rafa to go or not to go that is the question...

I think we all agree that LFC deserve a world class manager. Is Rafa world class? I think not. He is not on the level of Fergie or Wenger...simple as. Neither of them would throw away stupid points like we did against Reading and Wigan...or would be f**king around with this stupid rotation policy. We have a Champions League final won mainly due to opposition taking the foot off gas in second half when they should/could have buried us. That is what is keeping Rafa his job right now. I'll be slated for it but Houllier's achievements in 2001 would rate higher in my book than what we did in 2005 with mostly Houllier's players.

I have thought long and hard about it over the past few weeks and I think I have lost faith in our current manager. Only a CL win will keep him his job for 08/09 season.

who do you think would be a good replacement?capello would have been great,i cant think of to many others floating around tbh

[RedWally]

Ottmar Hitzfeld would be an interesting option. He has Bayern Munich back at the top of their league this year.

[dc69]

Ottmar Hitzfeld would be an interesting option. He has Bayern Munich back at the top of their league this year.


i dont watch the german league so i cant say i know him.I just think he should be given the benefit of the doubt,he is building a more attacking squad and he is bringing in new players,i personally think the yanks will give him money in the summer,as they have to contest the league or no one will go to their new high seater stadium and they know how to make a club succesfull and profitable.

i think he will buy a cb etc in this transfer market,i suspect risse will go to valencia which would mean koeman might do a deal for david silva.so if that happens i expect a player to come our way,most likely a winger.in the summer he will prob buy another winger and striker,so if we are not challenging next season then he should go.I think he still has missing parts to his puzzle and just needs time to fill them in.

I would also like to point out the fact that one of the yanks owns a baseball team and bought a player on a 250 million contract a few years ago,so they are well aware of how much quality costs,football prices are miniscule compared to that.

"Texas Rangers

Rodriguez became a free agent after the 2000 season. He eventually signed with the Texas Rangers, who had fallen to last in their division in 2000. The contract he signed is the most lucrative contract in sports history: a 10-year deal worth $252 million. The deal is worth $63 million more than the second-richest baseball deal."

[mypost]

If he leaves them, Rijkaard would be another good alternative. Even as a Real fan, I have to grit my teeth tightly, and whisper that he's a decent manager.

The German league is one of the best in Europe, and Hitzfeld is also one of the best around. There's two candidates.

[callyno3]

If he leaves them, Rijkaard would be another good alternative. Even as a Real fan, I have to grit my teeth tightly, and whisper that he's a decent manager.

The German league is one of the best in Europe, and Hitzfeld is also one of the best around. There's two candidates.

I thought you were a Rovers sorry a Marseille no a Liverpool fan :D

[Pimboli]

I think it would be interesting to see how many fans here in late November who were staunch defenders of Rafa and telling the yanks to f*** off if they were considering sacking him and having goes at any poster who dared say he should go too have in the last 6 weeks re-evaluated their opinion.

Like I said my faith in Rafa went after the Reading game when he admitted he gave up the ghost on that game with 20+ minutes to go, thats not the mentality of a premiership winning manager. Rednose over at the asylum would have played 3-4-3 or 2-4-4 to get back into it, how many times have the bloody mancs won games and scored 2 or 3 in the last 10 minutes of games?

[Badman]

I think it would be interesting to see how many fans here in late November who were staunch defenders of Rafa and telling the yanks to f*** off if they were considering sacking him and having goes at any poster who dared say he should go too have in the last 6 weeks re-evaluated their opinion.

Like I said my faith in Rafa went after the Reading game when he admitted he gave up the ghost on that game with 20+ minutes to go, thats not the mentality of a premiership winning manager. Rednose over at the asylum would have played 3-4-3 or 2-4-4 to get back into it, how many times have the bloody mancs won games and scored 2 or 3 in the last 10 minutes of games?

I think what that match showed was the difference in philosophy, mentality and priority of both rafa and ol red nose. Rafa's sole priority was the cl game against marseille - his biggest priority every season is the cl. I dont know is that ego or arrogance or what but on numerous occasions he has rested players ets in the prem with big games in europe on the horizon and we paid the price. What he did in the reading game was baffling, defeatist and downright dat - as well as insulting to the fans that travelled to the game. To give up so easily asnd take off our most potent weapon with enough time left to salvage the game was unforgivable - he again prioritised cl over the league - and he still prob thinks thats justified cos we bt marseille.
In comparison look and the mancs last yr - 2-0 down to everton in teh league at half time only a few days b4 the 2nd leg of the semi final against milan - their biggest european game in years. Did fergie give up the ghost - concede defeat - no!! His priority was the game they were playing - they won 4-2 and the league with it. OK they lost to milan but i think they'd have lost it anyway. But if there's one thing he always does, its respect the prem and never gives up a game.
I didnt like to c that agianst reading - and i dont think it'll b a one off either. That was just not good

[The Chanter]

I think it would be interesting to see how many fans here in late November who were staunch defenders of Rafa and telling the yanks to f*** off if they were considering sacking him and having goes at any poster who dared say he should go too have in the last 6 weeks re-evaluated their opinion.

Like I said my faith in Rafa went after the Reading game when he admitted he gave up the ghost on that game with 20+ minutes to go, thats not the mentality of a premiership winning manager. Rednose over at the asylum would have played 3-4-3 or 2-4-4 to get back into it, how many times have the bloody mancs won games and scored 2 or 3 in the last 10 minutes of games?


I did not agree with Rafa's decisions in the game against Reading - but I'm sure he would argue that we are still in the CL. He could've left the lads on and still lost and had them spent before the Marseille game and lost that too - nobody knows.

Rafa has made some strange decisions lately. But I still reckon the best thing for the team is for the fans to get behind both the manager and the team. Rafa is the manager and he has brought some good times lately. Everyone makes mistakes, should the gaffer get an opportuntity to learn from them or should the club sack him at the first sign that he is not perfect? It would be a mistake to get rid too soon.

Above someone mentioned Everton as doing really well lately on an average budget. Wasn't Moyes their manager in 2004 when they finish in 17th, 1 place away from being relegated?

[Pimboli]

Rafa is the manager and he has brought some good times lately. Everyone makes mistakes, should the gaffer get an opportuntity to learn from them or should the club sack him at the first sign that he is not perfect? It would be a mistake to get rid too soon.


The way things are looking this could be our second trophy free season in a row and this is year 4 of Rafas initial 5 year plan and we dont appear to be any better off as far as the Premiership is concerned. 4 years is plenty of time and wouldnt be considered too soon, how many or the 19 other managers that were in charge the day Rafa took over are still managing the same club, I can only think of 3 out of 19

People have mentioned GH, when talking about Rafa and told not too but the parallels are glaring to see, great first season, huge optimism, ok second season, then a trophy free zone, 5 year plans etc.,

[GaryMc]

The way things are looking this could be our second trophy free season in a row and this is year 4 of Rafas initial 5 year plan and we dont appear to be any better off as far as the Premiership is concerned. 4 years is plenty of time and wouldnt be considered too soon, how many or the 19 other managers that were in charge the day Rafa took over are still managing the same club, I can only think of 3 out of 19

People have mentioned GH, when talking about Rafa and told not too but the parallels are glaring to see, great first season, huge optimism, ok second season, then a trophy free zone, 5 year plans etc.,

I hate to say it but the comparisons are there, some of his explanations are as baffling Houlliers'. Some great signings, however some hopeless ones also.

Rafa is favouring Kewell and Kuyt much like GH did with Murphy and Heskey when they were simply not good enough (Look at them now).

I wont go on as its easy to nitpick, GH got the push even though the team finished fourth in his final season, something on current form we will do well to achieve.

[Liverpool-law]

Pimboli, hate to nit-pick but it was Houllier who claimed he had the five year plan, Rafa never said that...

[sean]

Pimboli, hate to nit-pick but it was Houllier who claimed he had the five year plan, Rafa never said that...

What Rafa said was that the appearance in the Carling Cup final could be the start of Liverpool appearing in alot more finals and the media picked this up as a Houllier style five year plan (purely because that was the length of Rafa's contract at the time). I can never recall Rafa stating he had a five year plan myself, or even insinuating such a thing.

[megager]

Are we Spurs. One week a strong show of support for our manager, the next we call for his head.

I agree I dont think we are ant closer to the league in his reign as we were in Houlliers, but hes won a champions league and reached a final in 3 years. People can say he is living on past glories etc, but in my opinion, yeah the league is important, but the champions league is where you pit yourself against europes best. and he measures up better than Wenger and Jose there over the past 3 years. And for winning a champions league he should be immortalised. Not turfed out 3 years later

If Rafa goes, it is gonna be Klinnsmann. Now if ye think things are bad now, wait til he gets his hands on us. We wont make champions league football ever. Yeah we will be better to watch but we will be awful defensively.

He is trying to do a wenger by bringing in youth so I for one think he should be given time to develope that youth (at least 2 years!!).

Such is the fickle nature of chairmen and managers in the current era he is not gonna be given that time.

I remember an FA cup game at Notts forest where a certain manager was said to be sacked if they lost...And look at the success they have had after investing 6 unsuccessful years.

If Rafa is sacked then I lose a huge amount of respect for our board .

[Gerry]

I thought you were a Rovers sorry a Marseille no a Liverpool fan :D


LMAO !:) priceless

[Pimboli]

He is trying to do a wenger by bringing in youth so I for one think he should be given time to develope that youth (at least 2 years!!).

If Rafa is sacked then I lose a huge amount of respect for our board .

While I respect your opinion you are saying to give him an extra 2 years making 6 in the hope that a number of the youngsters that he has brought in will make it. Thats GH all over again.

Remember GH had a fantastic pedigree with youth players having had a big hand in developing the players that came through during the 3-4 years France dominted world football not too long ago and none of his youth signings, the for tomorrow players to my knowledge ever made the grade at LFC.

[Liverpool-law]

No one can guarantee the youth are going to come through the ranks, that's always a risk. But the more good young players you bring in, the better chance a few of them will break through, while the ones that don't often make a profit for the club when sold. Looking at the players Rafa has brought into the youth ranks, I think he's done a great job in that respect.

[weecorey]

even if wee win the CL I think he will go, that seems to be his main priorty where as most of the fans want to lift the league, I'm not saying he'll be sacked but Im sure he would get a big offer in europe which he would take. I think its some kind of ego to have the best CL manager title. I cant understand his tactics in the league and dont think it suits him.

[StevieGisMyIdol]

Well this is nearly 4 days into the transfer market and nobody has been bought...
Rather a new player sooner than later because im 1, Inpatient and 2,it would be better if a player came sooner to be eble to gel quicker and sooner the better.

[Jockser]

i decided to let the dust settle for a few days before posting. Basically there are two camps in most of these forums, the Rafa out crowd and the Rafa we trust crowd. To be honest i think both are wrong and im sitting firmly on the fence on this one.

People ask the “Rafa out” crew who they would replace him with and i dunno, the best option would be Lippi if you wanted trophies in my opinion but the football style would suffer and he doesnt want to leave Italy so i cant imagine anyone else better than Rafa available at the moment.

On the other hand you have the “trust and support Rafa no matter what” crowd and you have to ask them, well how long are you going to trust him to turn it around? We are currently the 5th best team in England as the old saying goes the league table doesnt lie. We are not progressing to date in the League under him as far as i can see, and instead of closing the gap over Christmas we are further behind. In my opinion Rafa is on thin ice at the moment. 4th place for LFC is just not acceptable. But hopefully, and i really do hope he does, get a great run of results and bring back some hope.
We have picked up just 8 points from the last 18 and if thats all we pick up in the next 18 then im afraid i will be leaning towards the Rafa out.

I support LFC and i do not put blind faith in any manager to turn things around. If we all had that outlook we would be in league one with Souness. What i will do is give any manager a fair chance and time to put his own stamp on a team and then judge that team on its merits. I judge the manager on his results for our club and if im honest we are not where i thought we would be after 3.5 years with Rafa BUT i do want him to succeed coz i love him for the pride he has brought back to Anfield. The next two months are Rafas most important ever, do well and he is secure, another 8 points from 18 and he will be gone in my opinion.
Seems harsh i know but thats the way football is, and managers know that. Does that make me fickle that over then next 2 months I will decide whether he should stay? I don’t think so because 4 years under a manager is enough in my opinion to judge whether he can deliver. But to others I am fickle then so be it. Ill live with that tag no problem because in the end I will have a clear conscience on what I think is best for my club.

[mypost]

I thought you were a Rovers sorry a Marseille no a Liverpool fan

:rolleyes:

Ireland - Rovers
England - Liverpool
France - Marseille
Spain - Real
Italy - Inter
Germany - Bayern
Europe - Liverpool

Problem??? :confused:

[mypost]

I agree I dont think we are ant closer to the league in his reign as we were in Houlliers, but hes won a champions league and reached a final in 3 years. People can say he is living on past glories etc, but in my opinion, yeah the league is important, but the champions league is where you pit yourself against europes best. and he measures up better than Wenger and Jose there over the past 3 years. And for winning a champions league he should be immortalised. Not turfed out 3 years later

Such is the fickle nature of chairmen and managers in the current era he is not gonna be given that time.

I remember an FA cup game at Notts forest where a certain manager was said to be sacked if they lost...And look at the success they have had after investing 6 unsuccessful years.

If Rafa is sacked then I lose a huge amount of respect for our board .

So we should give every boss 7 years then, right??

7 into 18 won't go. Nobody gets 7 years anymore, and if it wasn't for the jammy goal they got at NF that year, he wouldn't have either. Rijkaard won the CL since Rafa did, and La Liga. He could go in the summer too. Sentiment means zilch these days. It's not the taking part that counts, it's the winning. Be competitive, or collect your P45.

[stamullenredmen]

yuor right mypost and thats the essence its instant or the sack now everywhere in football

[Juz]

:rolleyes:

Ireland - Rovers
England - Liverpool
France - Marseille
Spain - Real
Italy - Inter
Germany - Bayern
Europe - Liverpool

Problem??? :confused:

Can i clarify something if Rovers played LIverpool in Europe who would you give your support to?

YNWA

JUZ

[trucker]

:rolleyes:

Ireland - Rovers
England - Liverpool
France - Marseille
Spain - Real
Italy - Inter
Germany - Bayern
Europe - Liverpool

Problem??? :confused:

Weve just played Marsielle, we play Inter in March your spreading yourself a bit thin are'nt you?

[Daz]

:rolleyes:

Ireland - Rovers
England - Liverpool
France - Marseille
Spain - Real
Italy - Inter
Germany - Bayern
Europe - Liverpool

Problem??? :confused:

been in a bad humour all with being back in work, mad busy and the crap result the other night. But this has made me laugh. ha ha what a load of crap. How can you 'support' 7 teams. your idea of support and my idea of support obviously vary so much it's not worth trying to describe

[RedMurph08]

:rolleyes:

Ireland - Rovers
England - Liverpool
France - Marseille
Spain - Real
Italy - Inter
Germany - Bayern
Europe - Liverpool

Problem??? :confused:

Prob flatout on those forums too!;)

[megager]

So we should give every boss 7 years then, right??

7 into 18 won't go. Nobody gets 7 years anymore, and if it wasn't for the jammy goal they got at NF that year, he wouldn't have either. Rijkaard won the CL since Rafa did, and La Liga. He could go in the summer too. Sentiment means zilch these days. It's not the taking part that counts, it's the winning. Be competitive, or collect your P45.

The point being the top 2 teams have the longest serving managers in the premiership. Co-incidence?? I think not!!

These managers now essentially run the clubs and there is never talk of Arse or Slur Alex getting the chop. They can concentrate on winning leagues, not having to tip toe around clueless tight owners and idiotic chairmen.

If we change again we are into another man's 5 year plan (no-one will win us the league in his first 3 years-no chance).

rafa aint perfect and he has made mistakes. The rotation is a pain, but come on 2 CL finals in 3 years. We cant sniff at that.

I wonder if we won champions league and he was sacked how would we feel?? Id move we rename the club Real Liverpool

[redeagle]

The point being the top 2 teams have the longest serving managers in the premiership. Co-incidence?? I think not!!

These managers now essentially run the clubs and there is never talk of Arse or Slur Alex getting the chop. They can concentrate on winning leagues, not having to tip toe around clueless tight owners and idiotic chairmen.

If we change again we are into another man's 5 year plan (no-one will win us the league in his first 3 years-no chance).

rafa aint perfect and he has made mistakes. The rotation is a pain, but come on 2 CL finals in 3 years. We cant sniff at that.

I wonder if we won champions league and he was sacked how would we feel?? Id move we rename the club Real Liverpool

where is this 5 years been bantered about from.

its not stalin in charge.

:p

[kellsred]

I think Rafa should be sacked right now, and Martin O'Neill brought in. Then give him 50 million to spend. When he hasn't won the prem next season, sack him and give Klinnsman a turn with another 50 million. When he doesn't win the prem the following season, sack him.....etc.
I can't believe how bad our support is getting. It's a real instant success mood. I was on the Kop wednesday night, and apart from a group of 5 or 6 lads in around row 67 of block 306, the place was a morgue. Now I know the atmosphere depends a lot on how the team is playing, but there was nothing from the fans for the 1st 15 mins or so anyway, when it wasn't yet clear how the night was going to pan out. Yes there was noise after our goal, but I thought there was more to Liverpool fans than the "sing when you're winning attitude". And don't get me started on the booing.... I was ashamed to be part of the crowd when it happened in Croke Park against Slovakia, and I was ashamed again on Wednesday.
There is no quick fix, we have to get behind the team AND the manager, perfomances will improve and the results will follow.

[weecorey]

I think Rafa should be sacked right now, and Martin O'Neill brought in. Then give him 50 million to spend. When he hasn't won the prem next season, sack him and give Klinnsman a turn with another 50 million. When he doesn't win the prem the following season, sack him.....etc.
I can't believe how bad our support is getting. It's a real instant success mood. I was on the Kop wednesday night, and apart from a group of 5 or 6 lads in around row 67 of block 306, the place was a morgue. Now I know the atmosphere depends a lot on how the team is playing, but there was nothing from the fans for the 1st 15 mins or so anyway, when it wasn't yet clear how the night was going to pan out. Yes there was noise after our goal, but I thought there was more to Liverpool fans than the "sing when you're winning attitude". And don't get me started on the booing.... I was ashamed to be part of the crowd when it happened in Croke Park against Slovakia, and I was ashamed again on Wednesday.
There is no quick fix, we have to get behind the team AND the manager, perfomances will improve and the results will follow.

Not quite getting you there. :confused: You start by saying sack the manager now, and finish by saying get behind him and support??? As for the atmosphere on wednesday it wasn't a CL match so I didn't expect a deffining crowd but there was singing and chants from the first whistle to the final whistle.

[RedMurph08]

Not quite getting you there. :confused: You start by saying sack the manager now, and finish by saying get behind him and support??? As for the atmosphere on wednesday it wasn't a CL match so I didn't expect a deffining crowd but there was singing and chants from the first whistle to the final whistle.

Then read the next 2 lines!! :o

[weecorey]

Then read the next 2 lines!! :o

My apoligies, half read!:rolleyes: The atmosphere point still stands though!:D

[kellsred]

It was a bit of sarcasm at the start!
Due to returning to college in sep 06, weds was my 1st game since aug 06, but I had only missed 3 homes the season before, and weds support was defo the worst I've witnessed.

[weecorey]

It was a bit of sarcasm at the start!
Due to returning to college in sep 06, weds was my 1st game since aug 06, but I had only missed 3 homes the season before, and weds support was defo the worst I've witnessed.

Maybe the fact that it was my first match made the singing sound louder!:D

[redeagle]

heres an interesting tomkins article.

No one disputing he hasn't had a mass amount of money, still doesn't explain alot of things.

http://www.paultomkins.com/blog_spending_detail.html

Dunno how I feel about all of this (rafa out or in)

so many points and counter points that remain valid regardless of what way you look at it.

[Gerry]

been in a bad humour all with being back in work, mad busy and the crap result the other night. But this has made me laugh. ha ha what a load of crap. How can you 'support' 7 teams. your idea of support and my idea of support obviously vary so much it's not worth trying to describe


Spot on there daz, i always had my doubts about mypost but this just confirms it !

[YNWA]

Spot on there daz, i always had my doubts about mypost

Not the first and certainly not the last! ;)

[weecorey]

been in a bad humour all with being back in work, mad busy and the crap result the other night. But this has made me laugh. ha ha what a load of crap. How can you 'support' 7 teams. your idea of support and my idea of support obviously vary so much it's not worth trying to describe

he's obviously just a young feather. I remember boys at my school many moons ago who "supported" 5,000000 teams:D

[mypost]

How can you 'support' 7 teams.

You can support teams from other countries. Isn't that what the title "irish kop" implies?? :confused:

Can i clarify something if Rovers played LIverpool in Europe who would you give your support to?

I can clarify it, as in it will (probably) never happen.

Weve just played Marsielle, we play Inter in March your spreading yourself a bit thin are'nt you?

Europe - Liverpool

Everyone seemed to conveniently ignore that part. :o :rolleyes:

[mypost]

I wonder if we won champions league and he was sacked how would we feel??

We'd get on with it. We were around long before he came, and we'll be around long after he's gone.

[millersangel]

rafa stays. he has to.

when we were at the world club championships, his father died and he stayed with the team until the end.

he won us the CL in his first year and has made us one of the most feared teams in Europe.

he loves the club, he loves the city, he loves the fans.

we all knew, or should have known it was going to take time.

the last two seasons we have finished with our highest ever points totals.

If rafa leaves, who else will? Alonso?Reina?Torres?Gerrard? Remember, stevie probably only has 1 big move left in him and might not want to stay around through another managers rebuilding process.

our squad is getting stronger.

when he came, far as i remember, he said it was a 5 year plan. give him 5 years, and if at the end of that, the improvement isnt visible or we think we are going nowhere, then and only then! should we think about replacing Rafa.

Rafa stays.

[keystone]

I have to agree with millersangel.

However if Martin O'Neill was available or interested, I think I'd be on the Rafa out boat......just.

[StevieGisMyIdol]

I have no idea mate !lol
Hes irish maybe?He did good at Celtic but like Celtic are a average team,doesnt mean he can do it at a big team ie wait to see how he does at Villa.

[Gerry]

Loads of opinions in here here is mine Horrible thread with some crazy shouts in it, that is all !

[kellsred]

Horrible thread with some crazy shouts in it, that is all !

About time someone said it, time to move along people.....

[YNWA]

I have no idea mate !lol
Hes irish maybe?He did good at Celtic but like Celtic are a average team,doesnt mean he can do it at a big team ie wait to see how he does at Villa.

He's doing great at Villa with i think, the smallest squad in the Pl. Celtic are a bit more than an average team too.

[SUPERFAN]

Loads of opinions in here here is mine Horrible thread with some crazy shouts in it, that is all !

Horrible Thread it may be mate but it's made for some very interesting Reading.having Read through it it's clear to see there are some Beauts on here.....

[yodabenitez]

I've had quite enough of this nonsense.

Some 'supporters' we have, no problem singing when we're on open topped buses but turn into rabid dogs when there's a few bad results.

Slagging off players who wear the jersey, sack the manager mid-season.....this stuff has something to do with LFC?

Having no more to do with it, sickened.

[StevieGisMyIdol]

He's doing great at Villa with i think, the smallest squad in the Pl. Celtic are a bit more than an average team too.

First of all Villa have a very good young squad anyway so hes gonna be praised as a good manager just because the likes of Young,Carson,Barry,Agbonlahor are playing good !

Also,your wrong with the celtic thing,(dont want to change topic) as much as i love celtic i have to admit and the same with many true in true hoops fans i know all admit it too is that their squad is very average.The fans have a huge part to play.They play excelent when needed like against milan.They lose to teams in the league worse than derby eg inverness (3-2) and rangers(3-0) but can beat milan 2-1??
Just dont have the revenue to buy top class players.

[YNWA]

Also,your wrong with the celtic thing,(dont want to change topic) as much as i love celtic i have to admit and the same with many true in true hoops fans i know all admit it too is that their squad is very average.The fans have a huge part to play.They play excelent when needed like against milan.They lose to teams in the league worse than derby eg inverness (3-2) and rangers(3-0) but can beat milan 2-1??
Just dont have the revenue to buy top class players.

Haha, am i wrong? You could argue the same about Liverpool, do you think they're average? Also, Celtic make a lot of money.

[Alex Raisbeck]

About time someone said it, time to move along people.....

Yeah guys, we know its all Bullmanure, lock the thread mods.

[Gerry]

Yeah guys, we know its all Bullmanure, lock the thread mods.


The thread has been left here for the time being so as to give the rafa out brigade somewhere to put thier opinion and stop them turning evert threaf on the site into a rafa out thread !cant stand the thread myself but everyone is entitled to thier opinion

[StevieGisMyIdol]

The thread has been left here for the time being so as to give the rafa out brigade somewhere to put thier opinion and stop them turning evert threaf on the site into a rafa out thread !cant stand the thread myself but everyone is entitled to thier opinion

Who said its all "Rafa out" people posting here ?
I would definetly support Rafa and i like to post in this thread because it is titled "Rafa in or out"

[Alex Raisbeck]

The thread has been left here for the time being so as to give the rafa out brigade somewhere to put thier opinion and stop them turning evert threaf on the site into a rafa out thread !cant stand the thread myself but everyone is entitled to thier opinion

Ah yeah, thats fair enough, just venting my frustration, as the scots would say...
Theyre wrickin me heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed.

[Alex Raisbeck]

Who said its all "Rafa out" people posting here ?
I would definetly support Rafa and i like to post in this thread because it is titled "Rafa in or out"


Reds fans shouldnt have to answer that question, to any REAL Red its a given.

[StevieGisMyIdol]

Haha, am i wrong? You could argue the same about Liverpool, do you think they're average? Also, Celtic make a lot of money.

Well you are entitled to your own opinion but i personally think your wrong.:cool:
How can u compare Liverpool to Celtic??
e.g. -Carrager or Agger to McManus or Caldwell
--Gerrard or Alonso to Donati or Nakumura
--Torres or Kuyt to Hesselink or McDonald ??
Taking being a pool fan out of it,who would you choose there ??
Obviously the pool players because them in the list are top class(maybe barr kuyt lol).
Also,if celtic make alot of money then where is it being spent ??It definetly doesnt show in the transfer market.

[Gerry]

Ah yeah, thats fair enough, just venting my frustration, as the scots would say...
Theyre wrickin me heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed.

Same here mate but i suppose not everyone can be right like us :pb

[StevieGisMyIdol]

Reds fans shouldnt have to answer that question, to any REAL Red its a given.

Welcome to my club mate !

[FinnanNo3]

Who said its all "Rafa out" people posting here ?
I would definetly support Rafa and i like to post in this thread because it is titled "Rafa in or out"

Reds fans shouldnt have to answer that question, to any REAL Red its a given.


Stick that in your pipe and smoke it

[StevieGisMyIdol]

24

[Fowler-9-]

Football forums really do taint my image of this great club. I've been brought up on so many story's of how great our club, fans, players, managers, waterboys, kitmen....etc. Liverpool FC renowned world wide as been the best fans in the world, we get behind our team through thick and thin we back our mangers all the way until the end we threat people with respect who've been here who play here. Other clubs love coming to Liverpool were a great bit of banter.

So what lies under all this who are the real Liverpool fans because for me on this board all I can read is people slating our players our team our owners all the way to our ticket salesmen and women..Are we Liverpool fans at all? More like Newcastle fans to me...

Sack a manger for not bringing instant success? Sell a player if he hits a bit of bad form? Sell the club if the owners won't fund a transfer, this is not the Liverpool i was brought up on.

Rotation what is everybody's problem? Rafa gets the blame for Rotating and not winning every game nut let me ask you this
Reina Finnan Carragher Arbeloa Aurelio Pennant Mascherano Alonso Kewell Gerrard Torres, Should this team be capable of beating Wigan at home?Regardless of a rotated side that team should beat Wigan.
Rotation wasn't at fault for what i would NEVER call a bad result against Manchester City. We fought very hard and were unlucky at times but City played out of there skins and earned a draw how is Rafa at fault for this? We have a team full of talent sorry i should use rafa's favourite word squad! we have a squad full of players that should be capable of filling in when required, Rafa cannot be blamed on everything.

Rafa out you must be joking lads?

Rafa will never win the league? Can i use your crystal ball for next weeks lotto?

This is Liverpool we give our mangers time we put our faith in them and we support him!

John Arne Riise......

I am absolutely outraged and deeply disgusted and some of the stuff spoken about a great servant to our club. Granted the man is off form but that is no reason to slate him so much that goes for him and all of our other under achieving players. Riise has done a lot for us over the years he deserves our respect til the end. Mauricio Pellegrino got more respect from the fans. Get behind the team you 'support'.

Support... People on here should look that up in the dictionary and get the meaning of the word before claiming to be 'supporters' of this club.

As a 17 year old living in inner city Dubln i use football as a release of the pressures of life and because I enjoy it. Try asking yourselves why you are football fans, if it is because you like a good moan dont chose this club, don't drag this club down after all


We ARE LIVERPOOL< WE ARE THE BEST CLUB IN THE WORLD

Support the team, management everything that comes with been a fan or don't wear the jersey.

RANT OVER

[YNWA]

Support the team, management everything that comes with been a fan or don't wear the jersey.

So your done now yeah?

I'm sorry but what comes with supporting a team is having your opinions on players/managers(/owners), you can't walk around whistling everyday even if everything is going to shit. Not that i'm saying it is, but things aren't going to plan exactly, and people are allowed to think what they want on the situation, so don't tell everyone to smile and put up with it or **** off.

[Aido82]

So your done now yeah?

I'm sorry but what comes with supporting a team is having your opinions on players/managers(/owners), you can't walk around whistling everyday even if everything is going to shit. Not that i'm saying it is, but things aren't going to plan exactly, and people are allowed to think what they want on the situation, so don't tell everyone to smile and put up with it or **** off.

Hence the reason of a forum, its here to express opionions, and Fowler-9 is you think everything is fine and dandy your watching another team

[dubit10]

Hence the reason of a forum, its here to express opionions, and Fowler-9 is you think everything is fine and dandy your watching another team

I posted the thread and cant believe all the stuff thats come up.It's a simple question.In or out for Rafa.He's the clubs manager and gets paid well for the job he does.Does 4th place in the league this year keep him in the job? Id think it's not good enough.There was no room for sentiment under Shanks,paisley etc....Jesus i like Rafa but want to see progress under him.Who can honestly say they have seen progress this year.Any so called FAN of the club has a right to question the team and the style of play and part of being a fan is also not to have blind faith in the manager.Like aido82 is saying"if you think everything is fine and dandy your watching another team"

[samurai]

im brand new to the site, and having just read this thread, im saying to myself where has this site been hiding all my life lol!!.....i have arguements week in week out with my Man Utd and Aresnal mates, and now i get to argue with fellow liverpool fans...this is great......only kiddin, i just find it interesting to see fellow fans have lots of differnt opinions....interesting thread.........anyway i am sayin Rafa in!........i will be honest to say i aint happy with our present results or position, but i still see a good future under this man.....we still are in the 3 major competitions, we have an exciting reserve and youth squad coming through and to be honest i think a new manager wud possible effect all tat plus id hate to see Reina, Torres, Alonso and others possible follow Rafa out the door......Man Utd and Aresnal have had success because they stuck by their manager long term....clubs tat constantly change their managers have less success...my two pence!

[Aido82]

3 major competions, i personally only think we have a chance in the CL and the FA cup, think the prem is gone for another year, hope im wrong though.

As i said previously the next 5 league games will decide rafas future another 8 out of a possible 15 and i think he'll be gone in the summer.

Even IF he leaves do we really believe that the spainsh starts will follow him out the door.

[YNWA]

It's a simple question.

Ha, far from it.

Anyone see Lawro on the Football Focus show i think it's called, he said he reckons the Yanks will be gone before Benitez! Interesting take on things.

[James]

Like most other posters I find this thread uncomfortable but here is my tuppence worth:

I want Rafa to stay but not for footballing reasons. If Rafa leaves the club in 2008 it will be against the wishes of the fans who have supported him passionately over 4 years. This will prove that the owners have their own agenda and do not care about the views of the fans who keep the club alive. Liverpool will of become the Barcelona and Real Madrid that Rafa's Valencia used to get the better of because their clubs would self implode during a season. This would result in a lack of cohesion at the club while the current owners are in place. With the amount of money clubs like Villa, City, Newcastle and West Ham now have the gap to the top 4 will close and we could end up going backwards if Rafa was to leave.

On the footballing side of things I believe we will never win the title under Rafa. If he were to stay here for 5 more years and get backed to the hilt financially I would bet on him equaling Bobs 3 European Cups rather than winning a single Premier League title. Its up to each individual fan to make up their mind if Cup success and a top 4 finish is enough to keep them happy.

The clubs future is more important than Rafa's and I feel Rafa is an integral part of the clubs future as things stand. If Rafa leaves while the current owners are in charge I feel we are in serious trouble.

If Rafa is still in the job by the start of next season it will mean that one or both of the owners will of left the club in which case Rafa will rightly be given one more season to right his wrongs in the league. If theres still a thread on these boards about this subject this time next year then I think Rafa's future will be written on the wall anyway.

[kingdomkop]

source has posted this a couple of days ago, and is on a few boards and blogs


It's true there have been big problems between the American pair that went on to Hicks then having problems with Rafael Benitez - more problems than Rafa deserved really.

Gillett dug his heels in & gave his support to Rafa, against Tom Hicks wishes, so a stalemate ensued with both Hicks & Gillett & Hicks & Benitez.

The problems between the Americans started because of the financing of the 'Liverpool project'.

Gillett wants to remain true to Mr. Moore's, the board & of course the fans.

Hicks on the other hand wants to break those promises and place all the debt against the club - using none of his personal wealth - ala Manchester United.

Hicks & Gillett have 220 million problems. That is the money they borrowed from the Royal Bank of Scotland at the start to pay for the 'Anfield project'.

They have until the end of February to refinance the loan which has now well exceeded the original £220 million, due to the banks interest & the players they purchased in the summer. Also they took millions of pounds to help fund the new stadium that has seemingly come to a standstill.

However, if Hicks cannot persuade the Royal Bank of Scotland to renegotiate the current loan, there is a distinct possibility that the bank will become the 'De facto' owners of Liverpool football club within weeks.

On Saturday a Royal Bank of Scotland spokesman said that "A stalemate has been reached but negotiations are ongoing".

It is the case that it would be in the Royal Bank of Scotland's best interest to force the American pair out of Liverpool, but only if they know they have someone ready to step in with immediate effect.

The noise D.I.C is making suggest there is serious interest in becoming Liverpool owners - sooner rather than later & are just waiting for the right time to pounce & those noises are getting louder & louder.

Hicks only 4 weeks ago held meetings with officials from D.I.C in an attempt to sell 7.5% of his shares & 7.5% of Gillett's for 150 million. That would have been a 15% stake in Liverpool, but on that valuation it would have meant the club totaled more than 1 BILLION which Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum will not pay.

It could well be the case that if Hicks & Gillett are refused the extension in February & the club immediately goes into the banks hands, that inturn would let in D.I.C through the backdoor & the club would be considerably cheaper for them to buy too.

Also it would be a vastly better plan for the bank too.

Instead of putting the bank at any kind of risk during these turbulent financial times & trying to persist with the Americans - dealing with D.I.C would be far more attractive proposition for them as the finances at D.I.C are not in the same league as that of Hicks & Gillett.

Not even close.

I read about 3 months ago that D.I.C had conducted an investigation into how they managed to lose out on Liverpool in the first place & vowed to get Liverpool at sometime in the future as long as they knew they have the fans 100% support.

In the same article, it said that the lies the UK press printed regarding D.I.C's supposed selling of Liverpool FC in 10 years would be blown out of the water' and conclusive proof would be given to the fans to refute any such allegations.

Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum wants to add Liverpool to his ever growing portfolio, but first & foremost is a fan too.

[kingdomkop]

sorry i should have put up the link where i got the above posting (http://www.tv.com/users/fordies/profile.php)

heres some more to the story once again from the same link

An update from a source

I have been told that senior figures within Anfield believe Rafael Benitez will not be sacked from his Liverpool position - anytime soon.

David Moore's has held recent conversations with joint Chairman Tom Hicks regarding the apparent unrest that's said to be sweeping through Anfield.

Honorary life president & Director Moore's told Hicks if he were to sack Benitez, it would not be in the best interests of the club.

Moore's also advised Hicks that if he takes the decision to release Benitez now, it will reverberate around Liverpool for a long time & set the club back years, as a number of the senior squad would ask to leave in January & a significant amount of players from the academy & reserves would make plans to move on too.

He said that it has been for sometime, Hick's intention to sack Benitez.

For many weeks now, Hicks & Gillett have been at odds, disagreeing on the best way to finance their joint 'Liverpool FC project', and the relationship between the pair has got steadily worse.

As for the problems between the Benitez & Hicks, they started the day after the Champions League final.
Benitez was scathing of the Americans & the speed in which they were addressing things at the club, but Hicks retaliated by letting it be known within Anfield he wouldn't accept any further public outbursts.

After Benitez went on his rant on the 24th of May this year, it was then Mr Hicks decided he was unsure of Benitez & flirted with the idea of getting rid of him, but Gillett resisted the move and said it would be a massive own goal P.R. wise & besides Gillett is believed to be a keen admirer of Benitez and his approach.

But the relationship between Hicks & Gillett has declined to such an extent in recent months, Hicks even threatened to pull out, leaving the plans for the club in 'tatters' & suggested Gillett go it on his own.

Subsequently, stories of Tom Hicks showing interest in Roma began to surface which were quickly rebuked by the Hicks camp & he retreated somewhat.

With all the on-going disagreements & problems regarding the financing, twinned with the fact that George Gillett has blocked 'Hicks' recent attempts at sacking Benitez, it has done little to ease the situation & things between the pair have been getting increasingly cold & frosty.

My chum told me that some people within Anfield even think that recent events have been instigated by one side of the ownership, in an attempt to get Benitez to bite & de-stabilise the situation - which seems to have worked quite well.

If all is to believed, Hicks now has his window of opportunity to execute his plan and re-establish his authority, but with Gillett, Rick Parry, Mr Moore's & most all of silent life Presidents quietly opposing the idea - it seems highly unlikely Hick's will choose now as his best time to go against the general opinion & for the time being it will remain a stalemate.

I hope this is right and Benitez doesnt leave because it would set the club back years but the in fighting in the boardroom doesnt sound too good hopefully that can be sorted out with Hicks backing down and supporting Benitez.

[SUPERFAN]

As a 17 year old

if you are genuinrly a 17 Yr Old,as a Man Twice your Age you get a hell of a lot of respect from me.
we're not all Rafa Bashers on here mate.....

[YNWA]

Support... People on here should look that up in the dictionary and get the meaning of the word before claiming to be 'supporters' of this club.


Well yes, i went ahead and did it, here's some of them that relate;

To endure; tolerate:
To aid the cause, policy, or interests of

How much enduring can be done, because we have done a bit and are in line to do a lot more if it stays the same.

Everyone here obviously has the best interests of Liverpool, that's why this topic brings up so much debate and different opinions from all sides, some think that it's of best interests to keep Rafa, others not, end of the day, it's not our call, but something does have to be done.

[mypost]

Even IF he leaves do we really believe that the spainsh starts will follow him out the door.

That's called scaremongering.

[keystone]

This thread has really sparked to life over the last day.

I've already stated my case on this and am certainly not going to get involved in justifying my opinion to anyone nor should anyone.

In any case, Mark Lawrenson was asked a question on football focus yesterday about Rafa's future and he said something to the tune of 'he will be there long after the owners have gone...' Maybe I misheard....anyone see this??

Lawro can make some 'strange' comments at times but in essence he is generally on track!

Also, news in the Express today....'Liverpool boss Rafa Benitez has told friends he thinks he will leave the club in the summer, with Jurgen Klinsmann his possible replacement'

Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/gossip_and_transfers/7173613.stm

[Alex Raisbeck]

This thread has really sparked to life over the last day.

I've already stated my case on this and am certainly not going to get involved in justifying my opinion to anyone nor should anyone.

In any case, Mark Lawrenson was asked a question on football focus yesterday about Rafa's future and he said something to the tune of 'he will be there long after the owners have gone...' Maybe I misheard....anyone see this??

Lawro can make some 'strange' comments at times but in essence he is generally on track!

Also, news in the Express today....'Liverpool boss Rafa Benitez has told friends he thinks he will leave the club in the summer, with Jurgen Klinsmann his possible replacement'

Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/gossip_and_transfers/7173613.stm

Ever get the feeling that troubles at Anfield are being ran by the press.
Lets face it , They wanted Eriksson out and got it.
They wanted rid of Mourinho and got it.
Maybe they feel like taking Benitez out?

But as Redmen lets stick together and get behind Rafa and teh team, Redmen one and all.
YNWA

[Gerry]

The "story" from the express would make you laugh no direct qoutes from anyone involved lazy jornalism !

[keystone]

Thats the Express all over!!!

My Da was a Sports Journo for a national rag (not the S#N by the way)years ago and he always said that the broadsheets didn't need sources to impact on proceedings whereas the Irish tabloids (of the time) had to source everything.

The Express did a number on McLaren a good few months ago if you remember.....that was the start of the real press hatred!

[stevieg]

Rafa IN for me.

I am willing to give him another full season or two provided he gets given proper funds to buy World Class players just like Fergie or Chelsea are able to do.

Changing Managers at the end of the season will only mean it will be more changes, more chopping and changing of players and new managers ideas which may take time to come to fruition .

Rafa when he first came said he wants to challenge on all fronts and so he said he needed to build a big squad to achieve this.
He has built his squad by going for quantity over quality and I have no doubt this was an idea endorsed by Parry and others at the club.
He also missed out on alot of first choice targets because of Parry and others at the club.
He has also managed to get in a few good young players who will be the future of the club,it has taken Wenger years to do this and Rafa is only a couple of years behind him.
We are top of our Reserve League with alot of young players in the team and have won the last 2 FA Youth Cups,its no fluke that this has happened while Rafa has been here.

Now he has his big squad,it is time to give him the funds to buy the 2/3 more attacking World Class players like Torres as this is the missing piece in our jigsaw imo.

I like Rafa and think he can bring us the PL,it took Fergie 6/7 years to win the League and a couple of occasions he was a breath away from being sacked and now he is one of the most successful managers in English football.

Screw the Americans if they get rid of him,id rather they went before him.

[sean]

I am really starting to worry that the media is starting to have a ridiculous influence on Rafa's position at the club. Just now I heard Chris Kamara (a reputed football expert) on Goals on Sunday putting a question to Aldo asking if Rafa hadn't rotated Torres so much this season would Liverpool not have been in a much better position.

Am, correct me if I'm wrong, but when has Fernando last been involved in rotation and the club suffered as a result. I would have thought the home game against Birmingham way back in mid September, as far as I'm aware Torres has not been involved in rotation since. Seems to me that the zoom in on one individual at a time and it starts to infest and affect the thinking of too many people for my liking.

[YNWA]

In any case, Mark Lawrenson was asked a question on football focus yesterday about Rafa's future and he said something to the tune of 'he will be there long after the owners have gone...' Maybe I misheard....anyone see this??

Lawro can make some 'strange' comments at times but in essence he is generally on track!


Yeah i posted it a bit above, it was a strange take on things alright.

[Trevinem]

Im havent been the biggest supporter of Rafa on this Forum but there are some things have to be taken into consideration

1. Liverpool didnt have squads as good as Arsenal, Man Utd or Chelsea when Rafa arrived.
2. He came into a squad of players that would have been at home in the Championship.
3. Even though he had money, Liverpool didnt hold the attraction (and still dont) for a majority of world class players. In fairness if you were a footballer, not a liverpool supporter, if you had your choice of Liverpool, Utd, Chelsea, Aresnal, i dont think we would be your first choice going on the last few years of success and how bright the future looks.
4. Regardless of what anyone thinks Rafa is a world class coach and anyone who says otherwise needs to start watching cricket instead.
5. His hands are tied pretty much the same way Jose's was and if he isnt allowed to try compete for world class players its not his fault. At least he has the ambition to try unlike Houllier was
6. He is doing what is best for LFC and if you think otherwise than why did Stevie G stay?
7. As we have been improving our squad so has every other top team so it takes time, Fergie took a long time and in fairness as much as i hate them, you have top admire what utd have done in the last 10 years

Thats the way I see it lads, I may be wrong but u cant blame the workman when he hasnt got the tools

[redeagle]

some news paper articles.


Rafa exit talk intensifies
Benitez admits Liverpool have to narrow gap

By Lewis Rutledge Last updated: 6th January 2008


Rafa Benitez has admitted there is a gap between Liverpool and the top three in the Premier League, amid growing speculation about his future at Anfield.

Widespread reports suggest that Benitez could be set to move on in the summer after four years with the club.

The Spaniard's relationship with Liverpool owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett has become strained this season and he is now understood to be preparing to leave England.

According to reports, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Internazionale and Milan are all tracking Benitez's situation with interest.

Benitez has been unable to lead Liverpool to Premier League glory and he concedes it has become increasingly difficult to compete with Manchester United, Chelsea and Arsenal on the domestic front.

"If you analyse our performances, we have won the UEFA Champions League, reached the Champions league final, won the FA Cup and the European Super Cup, so we are close to United, Chelsea and Arsenal in a lot of things," he told the Sunday Mirror.

"But with the Premier League it is clear we are now a little bit behind the others and we need to work much harder to close the gap.

"It is easy to see why because people know the figures. Over a season there is massive difference between what we earn and what United earn - maybe £30million in gate money."

Liverpool begin their FA Cup campaign against Luton on Sunday and Benitez is confident his side can go all the way this season.

"I want to win the FA Cup, but not just for the owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett.

"I want to win because of what it means to the club, the fans and the owners. Winning always helps."

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11095_3026124,00.html

rafa's time up
LIVERPOOL boss Rafa Benitez has told friends he believes his Anfield reign will end in the summer.

The Spaniard feels he will pay the price for Liverpool’s continual failure to win their first league title since 1990.

Relations between Benitez and American owners George Gillett and Tom Hicks are strained, with Hicks in particular still smarting from criticism from his manager over a perceived lack of understanding about the transfer market.

Hicks fired back in an American magazine interview by saying he had been worried at the lack of self-belief in the Liverpool players in last month’s home defeat against Manchester United.

A summit meeting thrashed out some of the differences – but it’s an uneasy peace, with Benitez continually frustrated.

He fears losing midfielder Javier Mascherano because the Anfield owners want to wait until summer to finalise a £17million deal. And Benitez knows that Gillett and Hicks have been working on a short list of new managers.

As reported in Sunday Express Sport, the Americans have former Germany manager Jurgen Klinsmann, ex-Chelsea boss Jose Mourinho and current Aston Villa manager Martin O’Neill in their sights.

But Benitez has been given the go-ahead to sign Slovakian centre-back Martin Skrtel from Zenit St Petersburg for £4m.

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/30518/Rafa-My-time-s-up

[JOE]

Agreed, good points and well put...I felt the papers as usual are going overboard and are just looking to fill the papers, especially the red-tops...some of the comments were unjustified...and also Warnock had a pop on goals on Sunday this morning on the sofa with John Aldridge...
Anytime a story comes along these days it seems to be the old case of lambs to the slaughter...

[sean]

and also Warnock had a pop on goals on Sunday this morning on the sofa with John Aldridge...

I heard that myself :mad:

Warnock has a right bee in his bonnet with Rafa, especially when Rafa sent the reserves to Craven Cottage last May and Fulham won the game that kept then up and sent Warnock and Sheff Utd down.

[redeagle]

Agreed, good points and well put...I felt the papers as usual are going overboard and are just looking to fill the papers, especially the red-tops...some of the comments were unjustified...and also Warnock had a pop on goals on Sunday this morning on the sofa with John Aldridge...
Anytime a story comes along these days it seems to be the old case of lambs to the slaughter...

what did he say?

[stevieg]

The Mancs also put out a weakened team against West Ham at the end of the season so it wasn't just Liverpool

Warnock himself put out a weakened team against Swansea (losing 3-0) in the FA Cup last season and got dumped out of it, so what goes around comes around,bitter twat.

[Aido82]

warnock had 38 games like everyone else to sort it out, he didnt and i cant believe he is still whinging.

In regard to the topic, im still on the fence but agree that we cant get rid of a manager mid season.

[Darragh]

One man will bring us the league. Jose Mourinho, simple as that

[dubit10]

One man will bring us the league. Jose Mourinho, simple as that

Are you for real??:mad: There is no self respecting liverpool fan who would let that twat be in charge.Id rather we put whiskey nose in charge:D

[Aido82]

One man will bring us the league. Jose Mourinho, simple as that

As arrogant as he is, his record speaks for itself.

[redeagle]

Are you for real??:mad: There is no self respecting liverpool fan who would let that twat be in charge.Id rather we put whiskey nose in charge:D

whoa..lets not say things we cant take back :D

I wouldn't mind Jose.

[Darragh]

if he won the league for us what would you say?

[Alex Raisbeck]

if he won the league for us what would you say?

If yer aunty had balls she'd be your uncle,
sweets nuts and smelly butts.

[dubit10]

If yer aunty had balls she'd be your uncle,
sweets nuts and smelly butts.

:DId say fook all

[kopit101]

rafa should take up an international job, he wud b very good at it i think, but win us the league i dont think so, (jose mur) should be the one to replace him but will he??, again i say sell kuyt voronin riise, go after agbonglahor and keep crouch !

[Fowler's God]

This is Anfield’s Neale Graham asks fans to look beyond the blind loyalty and see Benitez for the manager he believes he is.

Loyalty. It’s a word that often counts for little in football. Players come and go from clubs, as do managers, but it’s the fans who stick around, through thick or thin. As Liverpool fans, we have been through plenty of thick in comparison with many other fans of many other clubs. Only one other English side has fans who can claim to have seen their club crowned the champions of Europe in the last 25 years. In that time, five FA Cups have been won, five League Cups, two European Cups, a UEFA Cup and plus other finals in competitions the world over. This, by any measurement, is good going.

However, the one we all want, the one by which any club is judged, has remained elusive. Short of Liverpool going on an improbable run of wins, the title wait will go on until May 2009 at the earliest, 19 years after our last one. Liverpool fans are loyal to their manager. Not for them the swift reversion to boos and jeers within six months of a manager’s arrival a la Sam Allardyce at Newcastle. That gets a team nowhere. But at some point loyalty is stretched and I think we are reaching that time with Rafael Benitez. Loyalty is all well and good, but blind loyalty is dangerous and counter-productive. Football is a results game, not a marriage. Sticking it out in the hope it gets better is not necessarily the best way forward.

Liverpool fans who blindly back Benitez can be accused of not caring about the club every bit as much as those who criticise him. Saying that “we back our manager no matter what” seems to some as being a sign of being a ‘true Red’ and a ‘proper fan’. But stand back from the bluster and what you have are fans saying that the manager is more important than the club. We were here under Gerard Houllier and Roy Evans before him. Neither convinced that they had the x factor that it takes the win the league, although in Evans’ case at least he had the team playing the pass-and-move of old. We have reached the same crossroads with Benitez and nothing he does suggests he knows how to win the Premier League. His league finishes of fifth, a strong third, a weak third and more than likely a distant fourth do not point to progress, while the football he has offered up is for the most part prosaic, pedestrian, predictable and overly defensive. His record against the other top-four teams is appalling and with trips to the Emirates, Stamford Bridge and Old Trafford to come before the season is out that shows no sign of getting any better.

I am not saying to turn on Benitez like Newcastle fans, but ask yourself if you do truly, honestly think that we are closer to winning the Premier League than we were when he joined the club four years ago? Ask the fans of Arsenal, Manchester United and Chelsea (certainly when Jose Mourinho was in charge) if they’d want Benitez as manager and they’d laugh at you. No chance. Why would they? Indeed, they all say Liverpool should keep Benitez because they know full well he poses them no threat. And deep down, if Liverpool fans are honest with themselves, they know those fans are right.

Questions have been asked about Benitez’s performance since the day he decided to rotate at Portsmouth, leaving Fernando Torres on the bench and the subsequent goalless draw saw Liverpool slip from top spot, never to regain it again. Preceding that, everything looked rosy with three wins from the first four matches. Since, it’s been the predictable game of catch-up, with Rafa and his team on the defensive. Not playing people in their best positions, trying to second-guess the opposition, waiting too long to make substitutions, and picking a weakened team in a bid to outsmart a rival manager tactically have become hallmarks of Benitez’s tenure. And while some of that is possibly unfair criticism, there is more than a grain of truth to it too. Benitez would help himself a little more if he didn’t do inexplicable things like playing 4-5-1 at home to Wigan, when his trait of over-analysing the gameplan of opponents to the detriment of his own side reared its familiarly ugly head again.

The manager’s decision to criticise the club’s owners on the financial front is understandable but unwise. It’s they who hold the purse strings and Benitez’s problem is that they do not have the fans’ blind loyalty; they can’t afford - literally - to be so emotional. Nor have they taken kindly to him asking for more money when he has not been playing those he bought in the summer. Ryan Babel, a self-proclaimed striker, must be wondering what he has to do to get a run up front given the limitations displayed by fallen idol Dirk Kuyt, the ineptitude of Andriy Voronin and the mystifying cold-shoulder treatment meted out to Peter Crouch. Babel has been overlooked, just as Torres was earlier in the season. The owners might not know all there is to know about football over here, but they know when they are not getting their money’s worth. Benitez could make his case that much stronger if he was getting consistently good results. That said, the £17 million purchase of Javier Mascherano is a no-brainer, in spite of the funding problems for the new stadium. Questions about how well Benitez has spent the club’s money over the last four years - not an inconsiderable sum - will always haunt him when he is not getting results. Arguments can be made for the relative wisdom of all his buys, but Fernando Torres has been the sole outright, no-questions-asked success - and that’s what £26 million should get you. However, trusting Benitez with similar large sums of money is not something the Americans seem to want to do and if they believe that another manager could spend their dollars better then that is what they will do.

How much Benitez has spent is not the overriding factor here, either. The word ‘genius’ is often bandied by Reds fans around when discussing his merits. If he can topple Real Madrid and Barcelona in Spain he must be able to do it in England, where his resources compared to those he had at Valencia are greater? So far all the evidence is that he can’t. A genius to my mind is Arsene Wenger, who can let go arguably the planet’s best striker in the past 10 years - and make his team better. Not just better, but significantly so, the kind of step up over the off-season that Liverpool need to make if they are to close the chasm to the other three teams. Can this be done by giving Benitez, say, £100m over the summer? It would help, certainly, but I don’t see it moving us out of the also-rans category. Perhaps it would just take longer into the season before we get filed there. He’s blotted his copybook too many times to convince me, and a growing number of fans, otherwise.

Ultimately, the interests of the club are what is paramount. To say I don’t support the manager is not to say I don’t support the club. In many respects, I could claim that I “support” the club more than those blindly backing Benitez because I want the best for Liverpool, not making the manager feel loved. And I no longer believe the best for Liverpool is Benitez. A few months ago, I wrote an article on this website called Benitez’s decision making far from special in which I compared him to Mourinho. However you spin it, Benitez will always come off worse in that comparison. Mourinho has won everything Benitez has won (swap his domestic performance in Portugal for Benitez’s in Spain) plus the Premier League. He is available, without the American owners needing to pay a cent in compensation, and is surely the only realistic option for the job of leading Liverpool to the promised land.

[Fowler's God]

Continued...

Perhaps Mourinho will hit the same ceiling encountered by Benitez and Houllier, albeit at least a little higher. There is no question the club is financially handicapped by playing in a smaller stadium than their rivals’ and that their youth policy, for so long a strong point, has ground to a halt while Arsenal’s keeps churning out quality. Without taking a chance, though, we will never know. Success is never guaranteed, of course, but with Mourinho you’re inescapably backing a proven winner. Look beyond the admittedly irritating shushing and the ego-centric facade and see the true winner. Liverpool have become a club where fourth (or even fifth) best is now acceptable and having Benitez lead us there with the wholehearted backing of many of the match-going fans underlines this. In Mourinho Liverpool would not only have a charismatic winner in charge, they’d have a manager the other top-four sides fear, a manager whose ability to extract the maximum from his players is legendary and a manager who would play his strongest side all the time with the players in their rightful positions. And more than anything a manager who would rid the club of its inferiority complex and instill the winning ethic and belief that has been so glaringly missing in the last two decades. Title bids would last longer than the autumn. I can see Liverpool being exactly the sort of challenge he would relish and, at Porto, he proved exactly what he can do when money is tight.

The alternative is to stay as we are, maybe even get a little worse, and rather than aspire to be champions again, we can look to the example of Tottenham, whose glittering past is now so long ago that their recent mediocrity is now their overriding facet. But if we can’t prosper under Mourinho…

Neale Graham

http://www.thisisanfield.com/columnists/2008/01/benitez-digs-his-own-grave/

Very interesting article by a good well respected columnist on one of the most respected LFC fan sites around.

[Digger88]

Decent article but he is jumping on the growing media bandwagon i think against Benitez. One point he makes is that Mourinho has won everything Benitez has - but the standard of the league in Portugal is less than Spain plus when he won the European Cup i think all the big european clubs were out by the semi-final stages. Jury is still out on Mourinho - would he have won the league twice without the russian's millions?? can he build a team with a decent passing style??
As for Wenger - Arsenal havent developed themselves most of the young players that are coming through - they have talent spotted and bought/compensated them from academies aboard at 16/17.
Remember that players like Gerard, Carragher, Fowler, Owen etc. were at the club from approx. age 10/12 or something like that!

[Liverpool-law]

My biggest worry at the moment is if we are not patient and someone else does come in they’ll start all over again and it’ll take another few years. With the yanks need for instant success however no-one might be given the required time and we’ll end up like Newcastle changing the manager every year. And Klinnsman’s name is being bandied about and I don’t like the thought of that… sure the attacking would be better but at the expense of the defence ala the Evans years or worse, Spurs!

[Pimboli]

Its amazing that 6 weeks ago if anyone mentioned the possibility of Marureen as the LFC manager they were slaughtered now there are a few more people willing to consider it.

I agree he has never had to build a team as Chelsea was almost there before he came and then he signed 4-5 players and the rest is history. I believe we are that we are about the same 4-5 players away and he could definately turn what has the potential to win the premiership into actual winners as he would not rotate or lose focus with Europe the way Rafa does.

Id prefer Martin O'Neill myself, he's no tactical genius but seems to be able to do what Shankley and O'Neills own mentor Clough could do and make players actually play to the best of their ability and some beyond on a regular basis.

[Liverpool-law]

Not me, Mourihno just hasn't got the Liverpool class. I'll always support the club no matter who is manager but it would stick in my craw if he got the job. With Jose it's all about Jose and not about the club.

[GaryMc]

Not me, Mourihno just hasn't got the Liverpool class. I'll always support the club no matter who is manager but it would stick in my craw if he got the job. With Jose it's all about Jose and not about the club.

I agree with that, if he took charge I would not hang up my scarf, but by heck, it would be a sad day.

The man thinks he is bigger than any club, an egomaniac.

He already had the spine of the team in place when he joined. Cech, Terry, Gallas, Lampard, Makele, Crespo, Duff and Robben. He then got over 100 million for Carvalho, Ferreria, Drogba and Essien. If rafa had got the chelsea job at the same stage, I reckon he would have won the league with them.....

[RedMurph08]

I bet if Rafa left the top european clubs would be fighting over him, How many jobs has Maureen been linked with since he "took leave?" Englands poison chalice albeit media driven...
If the " charasmatic?:rolleyes: winner" is to be our next boss it will be a sad day for me too! SSSSsssssssssssssssssh

[GaryMc]

I bet if Rafa left the top european clubs would be fighting over him, How many jobs has Maureen been linked with since he "took leave?" Englands poison chalice albeit media driven...
If the " charasmatic?:rolleyes: winner" is to be our next boss it will be a sad day for me too! SSSSsssssssssssssssssh

Well according to a few articales I have read today on the net, Real Madrid, AC Milan and Bayern Munich are monitoring events at Anfield and will be approaching Rafa if he gets the push.

[sean]

Well according to a few articales I have read today on the net, Real Madrid, AC Milan and Bayern Munich are monitoring events at Anfield and will be approaching Rafa if he gets the push.

Tbh I think this is utter speculation and nothing more. I really doubt chairmen, or friends of chairmen or any sort of club representative of these clubs would all have come out today telling various people of their intention to get Rafa at their club.

At the same time its obvious that if Rafa did become available all these clubs would be extremely interested. Any why wouldn't they! I'm not going to go about and state the obvious that Rafa is a world class manager, a man who comes out time and again stating his love for the club and who doesn't deserve tripe coming from certain sections calling for his head!

[redeagle]

wasn't rafa about to leave last year untill the fans actually made a difference.

[weecorey]

He already had the spine of the team in place when he joined. Cech, Terry, Gallas, Lampard, Makele, Crespo, Duff and Robben. He then got over 100 million for Carvalho, Ferreria, Drogba and Essien. If rafa had got the chelsea job at the same stage, I reckon he would have won the league with them.....

I could have won the league!:D

[liverbird!!]

The Manager Has to go, its affecting team spirit at this stage.
They are shite at present, and manager doesnt seem to have a
clue who to play, where to play them, so i say get in new manager
before end of january!!

[Pimboli]

The Manager Has to go, its affecting team spirit at this stage.
They are shite at present, and manager doesnt seem to have a
clue who to play, where to play them, so i say get in new manager
before end of january!!

Well he says he doesnt know where they are going wrong, dominating posession, making chances, you know his usual post match comments he makes, and his solution seems to be to do nothing, working on that old principle of 'it will all work itself out if I just keep doing the same thing'

Similar to GH with if I keep playing Heskey every match he will evenually score and come good.

[GaryMc]

Looks like this Solvak guy is signing, surely this is a sign that the owners have faith in Rafa, they are hardly going to give him 6.5 million on an unproven premiership player and then get rid of him

[JamesM]

Have to say he is borderline as well, lets hope the 2nd half of the season see's an improvement in the team.

Too many players that are not up to it, Kuyt, Crouch, Voronin, Sissoko, Pennant, Riise etc...

[redeagle]

Have to say he is borderline as well, lets hope the 2nd half of the season see's an improvement in the team.

Too many players that are not up to it, Kuyt, Crouch, Voronin, Sissoko, Pennant, Riise etc...

crouch is a good player man. Much better than those you have mentioned. Second highest scorer in the champs league last year.. fecking sat on the bench against milan while that donkey kuyt played up front without any real effect

even pennant had a good game that day.

[Kopite]

read this, and I hope you will all realise the manger is going no where

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2008/01/08/rafa-benitez-why-the-hell-would-i-ever-want-to-quit-this-fantastic-club-100252-20323782/

[joe n]

read this, and I hope you will all realise the manger is going no where

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2008/01/08/rafa-benitez-why-the-hell-would-i-ever-want-to-quit-this-fantastic-club-100252-20323782/

Hopefully G&H read this article and realise what OUR club is all about Rafa is our manager and we will support him all the way.

[SUPERFAN]

read this, and I hope you will all realise the manger is going no where

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2008/01/08/rafa-benitez-why-the-hell-would-i-ever-want-to-quit-this-fantastic-club-100252-20323782/

really hope you're right mate but all that Tells me is that Rafa doesn't want to go anywhere else but sure we all know that anyway...
why can't the Owners or at the very least Parry come out and Say the same thing?
maybe they feel they don't have to but if they did it would put an end to all the Media Speculation in an instant

[kdevitt]

He's on his way out...:( the owners really don't want him there anymore. I'm one of the most optimist LFC fans around, but I think we should all be extremely concerned about the direction the club is taking.

[gav003]

either that or the fact they have already backed him after the 'positive meeting' around the Utd game and the fans reaction has convinced them it is not the Liverpool way to hear from the club owners. New signings (financial backing) is the best way to confirm the manager is going nowhere. That seems to have happened with the Slovak defender- IMO the fact that he is being touted as the 'club record fee for a defender signing' is trying to show support for the manager.... But hey what do I know:eek:

[kdevitt]

either that or the fact they have already backed him after the 'positive meeting' around the Utd game and the fans reaction has convinced them it is not the Liverpool way to hear from the club owners. New signings (financial backing) is the best way to confirm the manager is going nowhere. That seems to have happened with the Slovak defender- IMO the fact that he is being touted as the 'club record fee for a defender signing' is trying to show support for the manager.... But hey what do I know:eek:

The owners need us to get a top 4 finish - otherwise no champions league football next season. The new defender is an investment to make sure this happens imo and has nothing to do with them wanting to keep Rafa.

If the owners wanted Rafa to stay, they would say it publicly - its not the most difficult thing in the world to do, or given his public declaration that he wants to stay, they could offer a contract extension. Instead, they're leaking stories about interest in the likes of Klinsmann and Maureen.

Not sure if you've seen the odds bookies are offering on Rafa being gone at the end of the season - but they're seldom wrong.

[oobydooby]

Hello all, first post - I'll keep it pedestrian:p

I've been a big fan of Rafa but this year something does seem wrong. If he wins 5 in a row though, with a bit of flair then all will be well again, in my mind.

Two big points in his defence: One, his transfers. Torres is brilliant and shows up the rest of the team. As fans we've been used to second rate players playing their hearts out for the jerseys, but this guy is the real deal and this is the kind of player our rivals have been buying for years. Easy to praise Torres and to criticise the iffy ones but many of the players he was linked to would have been class additions - Malouda, Simao, Quaresma, Essien all leap to mind. Even Heinze would have been very useful this year and he's the one MU defender who I rated (I've since come to appreciate Evra and Vidic). Also Alonso, Reina, Agger were bargains.

Two, his CL record. Lots of Pool fans talk about Rafa staying only if he wins the CL and FA cup this year! Lads, four years ago Newcastle were in the CL, we rarely even qualified. Now we expect to make the semis each year. The CL is at least 5 times as hard to win as the English Premier League and for us to be contenders year in year out for this, from nowhere and despite our domestic record is miraculous! Anyway, look at AC Milan's league position.

Sorry about the long post but I come down with keep Rafa for at least another year, but tell him to lighten up and let the players have a bit of fun on the pitch.

[gav003]

'If the owners wanted Rafa to stay, they would say it publicly'

Monday, 17 December 2007, 10:26 PST
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

LIVERPOOL, England - Liverpool co-owner George Gillette Jr. has backed Rafa Benitez to continue as manager.

"This wasn't supposed to happen, but it has happened, and now the focus has to be on finding a common platform to continue our co-operation," Gillette was quoted as saying in Monday's edition of the Liverpool Echo newspaper. "Rafa is the one we want as a manager further on, and we have faith in him."

Gillette was speaking to the Liverpool Former Players' Association on Sunday, after the Reds lost to Manchester United 1-0 in the Premier League. It was the first time Gillette and Hicks had visited Liverpool since the spat began last month.

Regarding the rumours- it is tabloid garbage- do you honestly think G&H has someone talking to the red tops to undermine the manager if they so badly need a top 4 finish as you say. Should they come out every 3 weeks with the same quote.

So you honestly believe that Liverpool would chase the class free Morinho after his history with the club or the total lack of club experience Klinsmann??

The truth is that if you don't win the league of course you want top 4 like every other team.

Think outside the box man these people are only interested in selling papers- they had a great few months since Morinho left, McClaren left, Capello came in. Now they need to keep selling at those rates- we haven't played well much in a month and the history of the fall out around 'i am only thinking of training and coaching my players' fiasco.

[mypost]

Looks like this Solvak guy is signing, surely this is a sign that the owners have faith in Rafa, they are hardly going to give him 6.5 million on an unproven premiership player and then get rid of him

The actual fee is €9.2 million, a lot for an unknown defender. Hope it's not wasted.

[Paul]

6.5 million sterling not a lot really for a center back when you think what the mancs paid for Ferdinand. Whether it's the player we wanted or the only player we could afford is a different matter.
The rags will be disgusted if this goes true.
It will show there exclusive on a transfer ban as pure fiction again :p

[Paul]

Hello all, first post - I'll keep it pedestrian:p

I've been a big fan of Rafa but this year something does seem wrong. If he wins 5 in a row though, with a bit of flair then all will be well again, in my mind.

Two big points in his defence: One, his transfers. Torres is brilliant and shows up the rest of the team. As fans we've been used to second rate players playing their hearts out for the jerseys, but this guy is the real deal and this is the kind of player our rivals have been buying for years. Easy to praise Torres and to criticise the iffy ones but many of the players he was linked to would have been class additions - Malouda, Simao, Quaresma, Essien all leap to mind. Even Heinze would have been very useful this year and he's the one MU defender who I rated (I've since come to appreciate Evra and Vidic). Also Alonso, Reina, Agger were bargains.

Two, his CL record. Lots of Pool fans talk about Rafa staying only if he wins the CL and FA cup this year! Lads, four years ago Newcastle were in the CL, we rarely even qualified. Now we expect to make the semis each year. The CL is at least 5 times as hard to win as the English Premier League and for us to be contenders year in year out for this, from nowhere and despite our domestic record is miraculous! Anyway, look at AC Milan's league position.

Sorry about the long post but I come down with keep Rafa for at least another year, but tell him to lighten up and let the players have a bit of fun on the pitch.

Jebus man go easy will ya, you could get lynched around here with quality posts like that ;)

[I is Stan Bull]

Anyone who thinks Rafa should go needs a kick up the ar*e and needs there head checked, lets compare! Rafa's first 3.5 years in charge to whiskey nose...... Rafa leaves him for dead!

Rafa is the man to lead us to the premiership =FACT .

And whatever said about the Wigan and Luton game, there was still enough tallent to win both them games. End of

[liverbird!!]

Anyone who thinks Rafa should go needs a kick up the ar*e and needs there head checked, lets compare! Rafa's first 3.5 years in charge to whiskey nose...... Rafa leaves him for dead!

Rafa is the man to lead us to the premiership =FACT .

And whatever said about the Wigan and Luton game, there was still enough tallent to win both them games. End of

So whats the problem then??

Explain to me how old Red nose, can win the premiership, and we can't? Altho! i hate to say it, its because he's a great manager, where rafa fails in this regard in my opinion.

He has a quality squad now, but obviously can't gel them together because nobody in the squad has a clue who they will be playing with from game to game, and it is now showing on the players faces, they look lost in games and show no team spirit. Just look at them on the pitch giving out and moaning to each other.

As a team we look lost and confused! as for winning the premiership 4th - 5th place is best for us this season, ajnd this i also hate to say!!!:mad:

[Fowler's God]

So whats the problem then??

Explain to me how old Red nose, can win the premiership, and we can't? Altho! i hate to say it, its because he's a great manager, where rafa fails in this regard in my opinion.

He has a quality squad now, but obviously can't gel them together because nobody in the squad has a clue who they will be playing with from game to game, and it is now showing on the players faces, they look lost in games and show no team spirit. Just look at them on the pitch giving out and moaning to each other.

As a team we look lost and confused! as for winning the premiership 4th - 5th place is best for us this season, ajnd this i also hate to say!!!:mad:


Think this I is Stan Bull is a Manc in disguise coming here to a forum which has interesting conversation unlike on the prawn sandwich conversations i assume on the Manc forums!!! :D:D

[obriener]

http://www.thisisanfield.com/news/2008/01/guillem-balague-on-rafas-future/

[Liverpool-law]

Saw that on SSN this morning

"So where is the speculation coming from? Guillem puts it down to the predatory nature of the English press.

He said: "Since Jose Mourinho left Chelsea the press in England have pointed their weapons towards Benitez and Liverpool, and they won't stop until they see him out of a job. That's how I see it."

He's right.

[GaryMc]

Guillem Balague in Rafa's future



Are you saying they are a couple :D:D:D

Seriously though, he is right, the press need something to fill the pages and right now Rafa is the target. When the team is not doing well, its easy for them, let's hope for 10 games winning streak and then they will soon find another victim.

[GaryMc]

So whats the problem then??

Explain to me how old Red nose, can win the premiership, and we can't? Altho! i hate to say it, its because he's a great manager, where rafa fails in this regard in my opinion.

He has a quality squad now, but obviously can't gel them together because nobody in the squad has a clue who they will be playing with from game to game, and it is now showing on the players faces, they look lost in games and show no team spirit. Just look at them on the pitch giving out and moaning to each other.

As a team we look lost and confused! as for winning the premiership 4th - 5th place is best for us this season, ajnd this i also hate to say!!!:mad:

Fergie can go out an spend 20 odd million on players like Hargreaves, Tevez and Carrick who are not even the first names on the teamsheet. 30 odd million on Ferdinand and Rooney. Rafa is left with the bargain basement guys like Benayoun, Arbeloa and Vorinin (free). He would have loved to have got Simao, Alves, Vidic, Villa etc.... either the funds were not there or the CEO fuked up. If we had those five players in the current squad I reckon we would be a lot better off.

A lot of it comes down to finance.

[Stephen007]

Guillem Balague from skysports on the Rafa rumors

http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid958992159/bctid1370845036

[SUPERFAN]

all that tells me is that Rafa wont be going to Madrid.
he said he doesn't know if Rafa will stay at Lpool and admits there is doubts about his Future.
as much as i'd love to i wouldn't get too worked up about that......

[Fowler's God]

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11881_3038369,00.html

Jurgen Klinsmann will take over as coach of Bayern Munich next season, the club have announced.

Bayern have turned to Klinsmann after Ottmar Hitzfeld revealed he would be stepping down as the club's manager at the end of the season.

Klinsmann spent two successful years at Bayern during his illustrious playing career, helping them win the Uefa Cup and Bundesliga.

The former Tottenham striker has been out of work since quitting as Germany coach at the end of the 2006 World Cup.

"Former Germany coach Jurgen Klinsmann will take over on 1st July, 2008," said a statement on the club's official website.

The news ends speculation linking Klinsmann with a possible move to Liverpool as a replacement for Rafa Benitez.

[RedWally]

I'd say he will do well there.

[Elnino_the_kid]

Jurgen Klinsmann will not be replacing Rafael Benitez this summer as Bayern Munich have announced he will take over as coach from next season.


that fook for that :)

[Fowler's God]

Just added it to the Rafa In or Out, thread. Great news been honest..

[SUPERFAN]

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11881_3038369,00.html

Jurgen Klinsmann will take over as coach of Bayern Munich next season, the club have announced.

Bayern have turned to Klinsmann after Ottmar Hitzfeld revealed he would be stepping down as the club's manager at the end of the season.

Klinsmann spent two successful years at Bayern during his illustrious playing career, helping them win the Uefa Cup and Bundesliga.

The former Tottenham striker has been out of work since quitting as Germany coach at the end of the 2006 World Cup.

"Former Germany coach Jurgen Klinsmann will take over on 1st July, 2008," said a statement on the club's official website.

The news ends speculation linking Klinsmann with a possible move to Liverpool as a replacement for Rafa Benitez.


can't wait to hear who a certain former Liverpool Echo Journalist has lined up as next Liverpool FC Manager now.....:D

[sean]

can't wait to hear who a certain former Liverpool Echo Journalist has lined up as next Liverpool FC Manager now.....:D

Maybe he'll go with the story that Rafa is now safe in his job.

Nah, not juicy enough of a story is it!

[SUPERFAN]

Maybe he'll go with the story that Rafa is now safe in his job.

Nah, not juicy enough of a story is it!

maybe he'll go with Big Sam!:D

[RedMurph08]

maybe he'll go with Big Sam!:D

Yes, Literally!!:D

[harrybosch]

in fairness, i never even thought that he would be the right man to bring back 19. i would have been really disappointed if rafa was let go and he replaced him.

[hotelformule1]

Phew! Very little experience so its a welcome relief he won't be replacing Rafa. Now we just have to hope Big Sam gets a job before the yanks come calling!

[stunnedmullet]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/europe/7182811.stm

That should put to bed the rumours about him replacing Rafa

[kdevitt]

Klinsmann was offered Benitez's job
Rafa Benitez's worst fears were confirmed last night when it emerged that Jurgen Klinsmann was offered the Liverpool manager's job before agreeing to join Bayern Munich.

The Anfield boss has sensed for weeks that the axe was hovering and his misgivings seem wellfounded after a remarkable twist to Klinsmann's unveiling as Ottmar Hitzfeld's successor this summer.

According to senior sources at Bayern and the German FA, Klinsmann was presented with a 'detailed offer' to take over at Liverpool and was seriously considering it when the Bundesliga leaders made their move.

Sportsmail revealed this week how the former Germany coach topped Liverpool co-owner George Gillett's wanted list and was in line to be Anfield's next manager as pressure continued to mount on Benitez.

As Klinsmann faced the media in Munich yesterday, it became clear he could have been heading for Merseyside instead but for topranking Bayern officials hearing of Liverpool's interest and reacting to it swiftly.

Though Hitzfeld is staying until the end of the season, Bayern quickly made contact with Klinsmann at his Los Angeles home on Wednesday and hastily wrapped up a deal with a speed that caught even seasoned Munich observers by surprise. Klinsmann did his best to play down the Liverpool link, but he smiled broadly when asked about any approaches from England. He said: 'There have been offers but I was happy to accept Bayern's.'

Significantly, despite denying reports last November that they had contacted Fabio Capello about taking over, Liverpool simply refused to comment this time, leaving Benitez to ponder how much longer he can stay in a position that is beginning to look untenable.

The absence of another obvious candidate suggests he may be given longer to win over Gillett and Tom Hicks, and he remained defiant as he reflected on the latest uncertainty ahead of today's game at Middlesbrough.

Asked whether he might have expected his American owners to publicly support him after their meeting with chief executive Rick Parry on Tuesday, Benitez said: 'I cannot control everything. If I can prepare the team properly for Middlesbrough and Luton in the FA Cup, and make sure we get the right results, it will be a step in the right direction for me. If we keep doing that every week, maybe it will become easier to find answers to these sort of questions.

'I would rather concentrate my efforts on getting the best out of the players. I have been a manager for 21 years. That has helped me learn to cope with things like this. It has helped me realise there is no problem with my ability, just as there is no doubt about the quality of our squad.

'After so many years at Real Madrid, where second place was a disaster, I know all about the importance of finishing top of the pile — and that is still my aim for this club.'

Benitez yesterday completed the signing of Slovakia defender Martin Skrtel, from Zenit St Petersburg, in a £6.5million deal.

[marathonman]

bull****

[Chambers]

bull****

my sentiments exactly

[Malzheimer]

Klinsmann was offered Benitez's job
Rafa Benitez's worst fears were confirmed last night when it emerged that Jurgen Klinsmann was offered the Liverpool manager's job before agreeing to join Bayern Munich.

The Anfield boss has sensed for weeks that the axe was hovering and his misgivings seem wellfounded after a remarkable twist to Klinsmann's unveiling as Ottmar Hitzfeld's successor this summer.

According to senior sources at Bayern and the German FA, Klinsmann was presented with a 'detailed offer' to take over at Liverpool and was seriously considering it when the Bundesliga leaders made their move.

Sportsmail revealed this week how the former Germany coach topped Liverpool co-owner George Gillett's wanted list and was in line to be Anfield's next manager as pressure continued to mount on Benitez.

As Klinsmann faced the media in Munich yesterday, it became clear he could have been heading for Merseyside instead but for topranking Bayern officials hearing of Liverpool's interest and reacting to it swiftly.

Though Hitzfeld is staying until the end of the season, Bayern quickly made contact with Klinsmann at his Los Angeles home on Wednesday and hastily wrapped up a deal with a speed that caught even seasoned Munich observers by surprise. Klinsmann did his best to play down the Liverpool link, but he smiled broadly when asked about any approaches from England. He said: 'There have been offers but I was happy to accept Bayern's.'

Significantly, despite denying reports last November that they had contacted Fabio Capello about taking over, Liverpool simply refused to comment this time, leaving Benitez to ponder how much longer he can stay in a position that is beginning to look untenable.

The absence of another obvious candidate suggests he may be given longer to win over Gillett and Tom Hicks, and he remained defiant as he reflected on the latest uncertainty ahead of today's game at Middlesbrough.

Asked whether he might have expected his American owners to publicly support him after their meeting with chief executive Rick Parry on Tuesday, Benitez said: 'I cannot control everything. If I can prepare the team properly for Middlesbrough and Luton in the FA Cup, and make sure we get the right results, it will be a step in the right direction for me. If we keep doing that every week, maybe it will become easier to find answers to these sort of questions.

'I would rather concentrate my efforts on getting the best out of the players. I have been a manager for 21 years. That has helped me learn to cope with things like this. It has helped me realise there is no problem with my ability, just as there is no doubt about the quality of our squad.

'After so many years at Real Madrid, where second place was a disaster, I know all about the importance of finishing top of the pile — and that is still my aim for this club.'

Benitez yesterday completed the signing of Slovakia defender Martin Skrtel, from Zenit St Petersburg, in a £6.5million deal.


Sources? Direct quote from Klinsmann saying he turned down the Liverpool job? A load of bo***ks again!

I wish the media would just fu*k off and let Rafa get on with his job. They are intent in seeing him out of a job, lets just cling onto the small hope we have that the yanks have more sense and listen to the fans and not the press, come the summer

[kdevitt]

I'm a huge Rafa fan and I'd be seriously pissed off if he goes - but I'm 100% certain the seppies are trying to get rid of him. Story is from the Daily Mail.

[Malzheimer]

How are you 100% certain?

[kdevitt]

How are you 100% certain?

The stream of stories in the papers isn't being purely generated in Fleet St, they get fed little tidbits - and the stories aren't purely in the tabloids either.

Apart from that, Chris Bascombe and James Kay have both reported it, and I put alot of faith in what they say - Bascombe especially.

And given that Hicks questioned Rafas ability to motivate his team after the Utd result, I'd say its fairly nailed on (as do the bookies).

[marathonman]

The stream of stories in the papers isn't being purely generated in Fleet St, they get fed little tidbits - and the stories aren't purely in the tabloids either.

Apart from that, Chris Bascombe and James Kay have both reported it, and I put alot of faith in what they say - Bascombe especially.

And given that Hicks questioned Rafas ability to motivate his team after the Utd result, I'd say its fairly nailed on (as do the bookies).

It is still speculation from the media. As for the bookies, throw the bait out,hook a few suckers,reel them in and cast off another bit bait.Works everytime.

[Malzheimer]

Oh sorry I thought you were in the know with your 100% certainty. I'll admit the signals are that they aren't a big Rafa fan but who knows what goes on behind the scenes? Definately not the media.

Hopefully Rafa will have made them see the bigger long term picture, and show them they can get a decent return on their investments in the seasons to come, if they invest in Rafa.

As for Bascombe? If we listened to everything he said Rafa would be top of la liga in spain and the special one would be leading us to the title???

He lost his credibility long ago when he started working for the rag tops. He doesn't care about his readers anymore just who can sell the most papers.

At the moment its all pure speculation not worth wasting our time talking about

[vodkacolly]

As for Bascombe? If we listened to everything he said Rafa would be top of la liga in spain and the special one would be leading us to the title???

He lost his credibility long ago when he started working for the rag tops. He doesn't care about his readers anymore just who can sell the most papers.

At the moment its all pure speculation not worth wasting our time talking about
Agree

[kdevitt]

Oh sorry I thought you were in the know with your 100% certainty. I'll admit the signals are that they aren't a big Rafa fan but who knows what goes on behind the scenes? Definately not the media.


Oh sorry - I assumed I was allowed to have my own opinion?? Didn't realise this was like all the other LFC sites:rolleyes:

[oobydooby]

Whatever they are doing to the team, whatever they are trying to do...these clowns are seriously upsetting at least one LFC supporter here. The only possible good of it is that the extra pressure motivates Rafa to go out attacking against the other big teams.

[Malzheimer]

Oh sorry - I assumed I was allowed to have my own opinion?? Didn't realise this was like all the other LFC sites:rolleyes:

Of course your entitled to your own opinion mate, its just I questioned your comment saying you were a 100% certain the yanks wanted Rafa gone in the summer. :rolleyes:

[sean]

The Anfield boss has sensed for weeks that the axe was hovering and his misgivings seem wellfounded after a remarkable twist to Klinsmann's unveiling as Ottmar Hitzfeld's successor this summer.

According to senior sources at Bayern and the German FA, Klinsmann was presented with a 'detailed offer' to take over at Liverpool and was seriously considering it when the Bundesliga leaders made their move.

Sportsmail revealed this week how the former Germany coach topped Liverpool co-owner George Gillett's wanted list and was in line to be Anfield's next manager as pressure continued to mount on Benitez.

As Klinsmann faced the media in Munich yesterday, it became clear he could have been heading for Merseyside instead but for topranking Bayern officials hearing of Liverpool's interest and reacting to it swiftly.

Though Hitzfeld is staying until the end of the season, Bayern quickly made contact with Klinsmann at his Los Angeles home on Wednesday and hastily wrapped up a deal with a speed that caught even seasoned Munich observers by surprise. Klinsmann did his best to play down the Liverpool link, but he smiled broadly when asked about any approaches from England. He said: 'There have been offers but I was happy to accept Bayern's.'

Significantly, despite denying reports last November that they had contacted Fabio Capello about taking over, Liverpool simply refused to comment this time, leaving Benitez to ponder how much longer he can stay in a position that is beginning to look untenable.

The absence of another obvious candidate suggests he may be given longer to win over Gillett and Tom Hicks, and he remained defiant as he reflected on the latest uncertainty ahead of today's game at Middlesbrough.

Asked whether he might have expected his American owners to publicly support him after their meeting with chief executive Rick Parry on Tuesday, Benitez said: 'I cannot control everything. If I can prepare the team properly for Middlesbrough and Luton in the FA Cup, and make sure we get the right results, it will be a step in the right direction for me. If we keep doing that every week, maybe it will become easier to find answers to these sort of questions.

'I would rather concentrate my efforts on getting the best out of the players. I have been a manager for 21 years. That has helped me learn to cope with things like this. It has helped me realise there is no problem with my ability, just as there is no doubt about the quality of our squad.

'After so many years at Real Madrid, where second place was a disaster, I know all about the importance of finishing top of the pile — and that is still my aim for this club.'

Benitez yesterday completed the signing of Slovakia defender Martin Skrtel, from Zenit St Petersburg, in a £6.5million deal.

Its rubbish like this that drives me mental. No definite sources, no direct quotes - just complete and utter bull to fill up pages. The media were always going to target Rafa full on once Big Sam was gotten rid of, I just wish Reds fans would have a bit of cop on and not fall for this stuff so easily.

[torres1]

Its rubbish like this that drives me mental. No definite sources, no direct quotes - just complete and utter bull to fill up pages. The media were always going to target Rafa full on once Big Sam was gotten rid of, I just wish Reds fans would have a bit of cop on and not fall for this stuff so easily.

I totally agree.They have swung there rumour machine fully on to Rafa as there is no one else left after Big Sam was hung out to dry.We should treat this with the distain it deserves.

[trucker]

Lads after ''the mirror'' said we'd offered capello the job Rick Parry came out within hours saying this was total rubbish, these Klinnsman stories have been around for a couple of weeks and Krusty the clown is as silent as a field mouse, think what you like but theres a very good chance that Klinnsman was offered the job and until krusty says otherwise Raka is a dead man walking.

[keystone]

Good point trucker and exactly what I would think.......

However with the press in England being what they are, I don't buy into the smoke without fire argument stuff.

I think if Rick Parry denied the Klinnsman link, there would be someone else the press would target and so on and so forth

Perhaps the clubs policy is to keep silent on this stuff now and to be honest, its may be the correct policy.

One thing is for sure and I think we can all agree, Rafa is under more pressure since the new owners took over.

[redeagle]

wonder if they have an eye for harry redknapp for the pool job if rafa is given the sack?

[Trevinem]

Lads this is 2 points dropped too much, im sick of making excuses for Rafa. I like the chap, hes done well but if you accept the last 4 or 5 results as acceptable then you need your head tested. Time to go

[Malzheimer]

here we go again with the knee jerking :rolleyes:

[redeagle]

here we go again with the knee jerking :rolleyes:

its not a knee jerk mate.

This has been going on since rafa has been here.

Lots of positive things from rafa but also many negatives..which are mounting up.

[Trevinem]

Mal mate if you think this is a knee jerk reaction your mad. Do find our form, players and management acceptable?

[Malzheimer]

No of course its not good enough but why is it always Rafa that takes all the stick. He's trying to build his side with the resources available to him. When the players step over the white line it is up to them to produce. He made one mistake today IMO leaving Crouch at home and starting that waste of space Voronin. The rest was all down to the players.

Away to Boro isn't an easy fixture for any team, Arsenal lost there we haven't won there in 3 years. Its just cos its on the back of other lacklustre draws.

What pi**es me off is the way some of our fans are as fickle as the english media after every game we dont win its Rafa out. You can't just sack the manager and get a new one in ala Newcastle. That would be taking 2 steps to back to go one step forward. Time to show some loyalty and get behind him, instead of taking the easy option and slating him. He has the good of our club at heart and has invested lots in youth where it would of been easy to save all that money up and spend it on a 10m player. Look at his track record, it doesn't lie. If the yanks loosen the pursestrings in the summer we will be a lot closer to #19.

[keystone]

Just a quick question.....isn't it 5 years since we won there??

[Trevinem]

firstly mate, track records dont count for Jack shit when your side isnt capable of beating City, Wigan, Luton and Boro and actually looking like a league 2 side against all of them. He bought the players stepping over that white line and half of them arent good enough to wear our jersey. I take your point he has limited resources but Lutons players arent even getting wages! Facts are facts, were paying Riise £30 PW and the bloke is afraid to take on a player, the only left full we had at anfield who wasnt afraid to try was sold in favour of Fabio Aurelio?? If were going to go off what people done in the past were never going to progress.

You can call our fans fickle but I call people who cant see the wood for the tree's blind. Rafa done well in his first 2 years and now hes taking us backwards. Without doubt i agree if he was given more money we could possibly be closer to the top 4 but arsenal didnt spend it and look at them? Theres a difference between spending big and spending wisely. In my opinion its time for him to go but regardless of wether he stays or goes, im for whatevers best for Liverpool Football Club, not whats best for Rafa Benitez

[Trevinem]

As for Boro away being a hard tie, it was a patched up boro side and should have been easy pickings for our so called superstars