Paul - Would you consider charging a small fee for IrishKop use ?

[Garrett]

Hi Paul,

I appreciate that the site costs money to run and while you've traditionally incurred the running costs, they have become larger as the site has become more successful etc. No one would ask you to continue paying this indefinitely needless to say....

Obviously, you've put the donate button up and also, your testing various possible adverts but rather than go this route, would you not instead just consider charging a small annual fee for usage ?

Personally, I'd rather pay a small fee and keep the site advert free to be honest and I wonder if you and others here may feel the same way ?

Another discussion based site that I use (it's for a specific breed of dogs) has just gone this route and the approach is being supported by almost all members.

Newbies could be permitted say 30 days free access when they register, but therafter have their access removed, if they didn't pay up - hence ensuring the site is not prevented from growing further, but yet the running costs are covered for you.

Food for thought, perhaps ?

[Andrew]

There was a big discussion about this a few weeks ago

http://www.irishkop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18141&page=4

Lot of suggestions were offered which Paul said he would consider over the Summer.

[Garrett]

Appreciate that mate ...

When I noticed Paul was testing adverts on the site here of late & Majella had posted about it, thought I'd raise it again :)

[Andrew]

Yeah, something should be done. At the end of the day it is up to Paul to decide what to do. A lot of suggestions were made and he knows there is a core group of members that would be happy to pay some sort of membership fee or would contribute annually to keep the site running without putting all the financial drain on Paul himself. He said he'd think about it over the Summer and just one last suggestion on that, whatever system is to put introduced would be best done to coincide with the start of the footie season (new members around, spirits are high etc.).

[Garrett]

Good point mate.

I'd imagine thats why he's testing at the moment etc... no doubt the level of activity is down on the site, during the off season :)

[7Cannibal-9Asbo]

Just an opinion but I think having a fee that has to be paid to use the site will really limit further growth of the site. There's better options out there I think, even if we had a bit of a donation drive for a week or so, maybe a few fundraising things it wouldn't be such a forced thing and wouldn't put people off the site before they get to see what its like.

[MR KING KENNY]

think it was said before, but the fantasy football can be a great way to get the funds up. have a irishkop league 10 euro or 20 euro a head and half goes into irishkop? people can still win a few bob aswell as helping out this great site, everyones a winner

[djdwainec]

fundraisers would be the way to go in my opinion! Elvis suggested a bbq, why not have an irishkop footie match the 2 astro teams that used to play plus new members and just pay 10€ each or something and go for a few drinks after at least people would be getting something out of it and getting to know people! or put the price of the irishkop trips up a bit! either way something definitely should be done and i will be willing to donate whatever is chosen

[Gerry]

Just an opinion but I think having a fee that has to be paid to use the site will really limit further growth of the site. There's better options out there I think, even if we had a bit of a donation drive for a week or so, maybe a few fundraising things it wouldn't be such a forced thing and wouldn't put people off the site before they get to see what its like.

Great post more or less exactly the way I see it, charging a fee should be a last resort there are far better ways to sort it

[Dub13]

Its no secret that we recently lost 70% of the income the site generators by losing google.This is a shame as this was the first season that the site would have paid for its self,but these things happen and we need to move on.But one thing is as Rafa would say 'for sure' even if none of the new options work I will continue to fund the cost myself so nobody needs to worry on that front.

Before I moved on I had to rule out other add networks,the adds that appeared today on the site were from reportedly one of the best alternative's to google.I had heard story's that google were the only show in town when it came to stuff like this but I needed to see the evidence myself.

Well today I learned thats true,not only was it messing with peoples browser adds appearing all over the place and just very intrusive.But the cash was well diabolical,for the amount of clicks I got today (Irishkop users wanted that free iphone...:) ) I would have made about 10/12 euro on google.This network paid out the grand total of $0.24,and yes that is in $ so only about 20 cent in real money.

So I think its safe to say the other add network option is gone.So this leads me onto other suggestions.I would never charge for using the site,as I agree this will slow/stop the growth and we have something special here so I don't want to do that.

I think the best way forward is some kind of enhanced membership,as this would have little effect on most of the site.I feel lads & girls who donate don't get much in return expect the knowledge that they are helping keep the site going.I would like to offer them something more,what exactly I am not sure of yet.

I still have not fully worked this out yet but something like 10 euro for 6 months or 20 for the year.It was suggested to make the tickets forum only viewable to this new group as we have all saved or got some kind of benefit from that forum over the years.I am considering this but will have to give it more taught (I would appreciate your views on this).

So to sum up,I am not sure were we are going right now but a few things are under consideration but it will never be a pay site as such.

[Garrett]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the feedback & likewise, views from others.

That other forum I mentioned is offering things like email addresses @ their domain etc, as part of the package in return for annual fee. I'll see if there is anything else on offer and report back, just incase it helps on the ideas front.

[elvis]

We already have Irishkop email addresses though ;)

the ticket forum being a "paid" service is a good idea, will stop all the newbies that come in post once for tickets and never get seen from again.

Also the BBQ ;)

[south]

By been a paid fourm your cutting off young members straight away. A lot of money was raised for good causes from the good people on this forum so would it be out of place to have one for the site once or twice a year maybe ?

[Anfield Old Boys]

I'm open minded on the question of charging but I think we need to look at other options first, I think whatever we do we have to ensure that there is enough money to meet costs every year. Perhaps if we had a call for donations then we could see how we are fixed after that? In saying that I have no idea how much it costs to run a site like this every year...

[Andrew]

Just an opinion but I think having a fee that has to be paid to use the site will really limit further growth of the site. There's better options out there I think, even if we had a bit of a donation drive for a week or so, maybe a few fundraising things it wouldn't be such a forced thing and wouldn't put people off the site before they get to see what its like.

I feel like I'm repeating what was discussed on the previous thread about this but here goes ....

1. A fee will not limit growth. The fee would only be for members who would like to contribute some money to the site and in return would get a few bonus features like bigger pm box and customised "name tags". The effect on other non paying members would be nill, nada, zilch.
2. Donation drive was suggested on the other thread too and I think would be a very good idea to have an annual one with the amount of money raised being made public the following week so people can see what good work they did :)

think it was said before, but the fantasy football can be a great way to get the funds up.

fundraisers would be the way to go in my opinion! Elvis suggested a bbq, why not have an irishkop footie match the 2 astro teams that used to play plus new members and just pay 10€ each or something and go for a few drinks after at least people would be getting something out of it and getting to know people! or put the price of the irishkop trips up a bit! either way something definitely should be done and i will be willing to donate whatever is chosen

On these two points. Nice ideas but you are really limiting the number of people who can donate. e.g. Personally, I no longer play those FF league as they are a time sink for me at work. Will the BBQ be in Dublin? What about non-Dubs? As I said, nice ideas but I would think these would work best in conjunction with either the membership or annual fund raising drive.


I think the best way forward is some kind of enhanced membership,as this would have little effect on most of the site.I feel lads & girls who donate don't get much in return expect the knowledge that they are helping keep the site going.I would like to offer them something more,what exactly I am not sure of yet.

I still have not fully worked this out yet but something like 10 euro for 6 months or 20 for the year. It was suggested to make the tickets forum only viewable to this new group as we have all saved or got some kind of benefit from that forum over the years.I am considering this but will have to give it more taught (I would appreciate your views on this).


1. I agree. This would be a good way to go.
2. I think it would be a good idea to see what numbers you would get if you charged €10 vs €20.
3. I was one of those that suggested the ticket forum thing. A few points were made afterwards that it might have a detrimental affect on the site and I'm inclined to agree.

[Sarge]

How much does the site cost to run for 1 year?

[byrnetred]

Maybe charge an extra euro on the trips, for each bus that's filled that's €50

The triPs are done at cost Price so I can't see to many people complaining in contributing to the maintance of the site

[elvis]

Dontations could be the way forward, especially if perks were offered.

Like access to the tickets thread,
Chang of username
change of status - so instead of First Team, you could have anything you want.
bigger PM box

a twist on another suggestion - regarding the IK trips,
maybe only people subscribed can see that thread and thus get to avail of it, then open it up to the rest but they will have to pay between 1-5 euro extra for their place.
or pay the 5 euro to come on the trip and get access to the "subscription" as a result, similar to what was done before regarding the SOS.

maybe have a minimum donation of 5 euro to enable the features for 6months or a year.

[Captain_Morgan]

First away game of the season we all meet up in a boozer in town to watch the match.

A donation box is left on the bar and everyone has to throw into it on the night??????

[Shay]

Maybe charge an extra euro on the trips, for each bus that's filled that's €50

The triPs are done at cost Price so I can't see to many people complaining in contributing to the maintance of the site

I think this is the best way, even if it was a fiver it's not like people are getting ripped off and its not profit. All goes to run the site and any left over can go to the HJC fund

[Phil!]

Could offer say a Gold Membership and a Silver Membership. A Silver Membership could be free and the same we have now. The Gold Membership could be for people who want to pay and get the perks for it eg. Bigger PM boxes, First preference on trips ect.

[Andrew]

Could offer say a Gold Membership and a Silver Membership. A Silver Membership could be free and the same we have now. The Gold Membership could be for people who want to pay and get the perks for it eg. Bigger PM boxes, First preference on trips ect.

I like the branding :)

I'd be worried a little bit about the first preference thing though as that could hinder growth within the site. e.g. A new, "Silver", member joins the site and misses out on the chance of his/her first Irishkop trip because a Gold member was given preference. Who knows what knock-on effect that might have. Maybe that person feels hard done by, feels there's an element of an elite clique on the site, loses interest in the site and leaves.

[Phil!]

I like the branding :)

I'd be worried a little bit about the first preference thing though as that could hinder growth within the site. e.g. A new, "Silver", member joins the site and misses out on the chance of his/her first Irishkop trip because a Gold member was given preference. Who knows what knock-on effect that might have. Maybe that person feels hard done by, feels there's an element of an elite clique on the site, loses interest in the site and leaves.

Of course it will depend on the number of people who were to take up the payed membership but if there was 2 buses like there was at the Brum match I'd say there will always be places left over. It might also encourage people to pay the membership so they can get on the trip easier and since they have payed also contribute by sticking around as well.

[elvis]

feels there's an element of an elite clique on the site, loses interest in the site and leaves.

Theres already an elite clique ;)


See part of my suggestions early, which realte to the IK trips.

a twist on another suggestion - regarding the IK trips,
maybe only people subscribed can see that thread and thus get to avail of it, then open it up to the rest but they will have to pay between 1-5 euro extra for their place.
or pay the 5 euro to come on the trip and get access to the "subscription" as a result, similar to what was done before regarding the SOS.

[Sarge]

I'm open minded on the question of charging but I think we need to look at other options first, I think whatever we do we have to ensure that there is enough money to meet costs every year. Perhaps if we had a call for donations then we could see how we are fixed after that? In saying that I have no idea how much it costs to run a site like this every year...

Thats the million dollar question.

[elvis]

Thats the million dollar question.

About 700 , but as the site grows so do the maintenence costs,.

[Sarge]

About 700 , but as the site grows so do the maintenence costs,.

Ahh right thanks, ok look, if the MODs want i can do out a Table Quiz, run it and do compair on the night. All Sports questions, we can have it at a fiver a head with teams of 4. 20 teams and a raffle will give you 50% or more of that total in 1 night. But we can do better than 20 teams if we all really gert behind this and possibly make it an annual thingy?

Thoughts,

Unkie Sarge.

[elvis]

Ahh right thanks, ok look, if the MODs want i can do out a Table Quiz, run it and do compair on the night. All Sports questions, we can have it at a fiver a head with teams of 4. 20 teams and a raffle will give you 50% or more of that total in 1 night. But we can do better than 20 teams if we all really gert behind this and possibly make it an annual thingy?

Thoughts,

Unkie Sarge.

Table quiz is a great Idea, but it limits to people from Dublin, as others will have to travel etc.

The IK trip, and people donating for extra perks I reckon is the best and fairest way forward.

Meaning people can still fully enjoy the site without having to contribute, but those who do, gain something extra for it too,.

[Sarge]

I understand that but its a start.

[elvis]

We could do a raffle, and the lucky winner gets to pay the fees for the year :D

[padski08]

I think your right not to make it a pay site as site would not grow

As for paying a small fee for access to parts of the site is one option but again may limit new members as people may think site is limited unless they pay

Best option imo is to have fundraiser by way of:
1. reverse auction
2. extra €1 or so on IK trip price
3. week long fundraiser drive where people can donate what ever amount they wish via paypal or direct into a bank account - any short-comings can be advised and maybe then use option 1 or 2 above

[Sarge]

We could do a raffle, and the lucky winner gets to pay the fees for the year :D

I likes it!!! :D

[Andrew]

I think your right not to make it a pay site as site would not grow


I don't understand this prevailing thought pattern that introducing a paid membership for a few minor perks (literally minor and superficial) will somehow stop the site from growing. Look to boards.ie as an example. They've had that exact system in place for years now and they haven't ground to a halt yet.


As for paying a small fee for access to parts of the site is one option but again may limit new members as people may think site is limited unless they pay

This, however, would potentially affect the site negatively. So you could do the paid membership but just don't restrict access to parts of the site to those who aren't Gold members :)


Best option imo is to have fundraiser by way of:
1. reverse auction
2. extra €1 or so on IK trip price
3. week long fundraiser drive where people can donate what ever amount they wish via paypal or direct into a bank account - any short-comings can be advised and maybe then use option 1 or 2 above

Also all good ideas like the ones above but try and look at it from Paul's point of view. Points 2. and 3. above would work because they regular and easy to implement.

All these extra ideas of BBQ, reverse auctions etc are grand but you need to ask...
Who is going to organise these events?
Will they be annual?
Who's going to make sure that they continue to happen every year?
Where is Paul going to find items for reverse auctions? I'm sure he'll find them but there is still work involved in getting it sorted.

I'm not having a go at these ideas. I think they can all work but a long term, easy to implement solution that will happen on an annual basis is needed. So, imo, either the membership idea or the annual fund raising drive (or a combo of both - i.e an annual push for new members) would be the best solutions.

[bobby benitez]

Table quiz is a great Idea, but it limits to people from Dublin, as others will have to travel etc.

The IK trip, and people donating for extra perks I reckon is the best and fairest way forward.

Meaning people can still fully enjoy the site without having to contribute, but those who do, gain something extra for it too,.

The quiz could be online. €5 ahead, 20 people enter each month, half to the site and half to the winner. €600 per year right there, not to much work involved in it. People could volunteer on a monthly basis to come up with the questions, run the night etc.

As for IK Trips, I think a €5 ahead should be added automatically, don't even announce it, just do it and it will still be miles cheaper than anyone else.

[Sarge]

bobby i like you quiz idea.

[Carroll9]

bobby i like you quiz idea.

I thought the quiz was your idea.:)
Bobby just expanded it.Both great ideas imo.

[Ron1892]

BBQ would be mint.. We could have it in a Park, so we wouldnt be paying,Abit of drinking in the star light lounge too...Cant beat it.Every one is a winner then.

[Maverick]

Would have no problem throwing a few quid for the upkeep of the site.If there was a neutral venue for a fundraiser I'd be happy to go but Dublins a bit far for me.

[Anfield Old Boys]

Theres already an elite clique ;)

Maybe we could auction off entry into the elite clique as some lads on here seem obsessed with it :D

[padski08]

I don't understand this prevailing thought pattern that introducing a paid membership for a few minor perks (literally minor and superficial) will somehow stop the site from growing. Look to boards.ie as an example. They've had that exact system in place for years now and they haven't ground to a halt yet.



This, however, would potentially affect the site negatively. So you could do the paid membership but just don't restrict access to parts of the site to those who aren't Gold members :)



Also all good ideas like the ones above but try and look at it from Paul's point of view. Points 2. and 3. above would work because they regular and easy to implement.

All these extra ideas of BBQ, reverse auctions etc are grand but you need to ask...
Who is going to organise these events?
Will they be annual?
Who's going to make sure that they continue to happen every year?
Where is Paul going to find items for reverse auctions? I'm sure he'll find them but there is still work involved in getting it sorted.

I'm not having a go at these ideas. I think they can all work but a long term, easy to implement solution that will happen on an annual basis is needed. So, imo, either the membership idea or the annual fund raising drive (or a combo of both - i.e an annual push for new members) would be the best solutions.

I know personally that i check boards.ie from time to time if i am looking for something, im not a member but go on so cant comment on how the site is run

When i was first passing through Irish Kop before i joined, one of appeals was that the site was pretty open and appealing and not 'hidden' extras bar the access on ticket thread which is understandable

The reverse auction idea could be used to generate funds intermittingly

Points 2 and 3 are easy to implement and could be done

[sully&Red]

how about an irishkop.com shop ?

[Dzer2]

How about a poker drive/night online we were invited to do one last year

[Dub13]

3. I was one of those that suggested the ticket forum thing. A few points were made afterwards that it might have a detrimental affect on the site and I'm inclined to agree.

I am unsure about putting the tickets forum in the members package for just this reason.

The quiz could be online. €5 ahead, 20 people enter each month, half to the site and half to the winner. €600 per year right there, not to much work involved in it. People could volunteer on a monthly basis to come up with the questions, run the night etc.

If anybody wants to step up and run these fire away,I just would not have the time but its a good idea if it got the backing I would hate to see someone put in a load of effort and not many take part.

[Phil!]

If anybody wants to step up and run these fire away,I just would not have the time but its a good idea if it got the backing I would hate to see someone put in a load of effort and not many take part.

I'll do the first one if yas want?!

[Sarge]

I'll do the first one if yas want?!

:(

Whats alls abouts little oldest me?

[Sarge]

Bttw i can have a quiz done up in an sec if you all wanted, so just to sort out the format now.

[Phil!]

Fire away Sarge it's all yours!

[bobby benitez]

Bttw i can have a quiz done up in an sec if you all wanted, so just to sort out the format now.

Good man Sarge. Format should be down to whoever is organising the quiz. I'd suggest picking a date and getting people to pay into a designated account.

Rover done a quiz on here a couple of years ago, maybe route it out and see what format he used. Biggest problem is obviously the temptation to use google when its so close by so questions would need to be a little outside the box or require instant answering.

[maloneavic]

Think it was only last year that Ronan did that quiz? Think it worked out great and everyone enjoyed it.

As said before the site is in no danger of going out of business etc but it will need more cash injections when there is growth and i think there will be more activity from here on in.

Seems to be 50/50 regarding paying for the use of the site, i dont have any problem what so ever paying a small fee each year as the tips,information etc that you get on here is secound to none.

At the moment tho i think Donations,fundraisers, auctions and any spare cash from ik trips will be more then enough to keep this going.

[Sarge]

I have posted up an idea of mine on the site lads/lassies have a look and see what you all think of it.

[Red7778]

how about an irishkop.com shop ?

This is a good idea. Maybe Irish kop mugs and stuff like that. However I think a small tariff of £2 posting fee for off peak posting would be a good idea.
And everyone can afford it. Its less the price of a pint.

[diceyreilly]

I say the best way to go is a €3/€5 a month to view the ticket and travel section and the ticket section..

That way even newbies won't mind paying that to have a peep and if they like what they see which they will they will stick around..

I'm not sure many care too much for the bigger inbox.. I delete all mine anyway i'm sure most prob do the same..