Would we be better off with no FF or FG in Government?

[Sarge]

I would like to think yes, since the foundation of this State we have not gone without one or the other in power. So with all of their links to big business and Irelands 'elite' should a new fresh Government be able to start a new era in Irish Politics?

Thoughts please.

[Alex Raisbeck]

I dont know to be honest.
Labour would tax us to the bollix though wouldnt they? Or could they?

[byrnetred]

Would that mean labour would have to have a policy??

[CrazyDaize]

You can't beat a bit of experience in there somewhere

[Carroll9]

Could be possible that there is a Labour/Fine Gael coalition with Labour holding the majority.Eamon Gilmore for Taoiseach.

[babbsnads]

Personally I'd like to see some sort of reform in the electoral system. How can a party like the greens with not even 5% of the popular vote be in government and pushing their policies through at a time when people can least afford them. I don't have an alternative to the system we have but maybe more intelligent people than me can come up with one. I think we'll see a fine Gael /Labour coalition in the next government but if I'm honest I don't have faith in politicians. Even the ones who genuinely have good intentions at the start get corrupted or have their efforts thwarted by the corrupt.

[Sarge]

Would that mean labour would have to have a policy??

Yes. :D

[byrnetred]

Yes. :D

To thoughts of having to listen to Joan burton more than i have to at the minute is enough for me to not vote labour, also see Mary upton is standing down after this term

[Sarge]

I heard, Henry to continue the family dynasty? Eric might get a seat now :D

[northside red]

Labour would and should be the real opposition in this country. People seem to think being working class is something to be ashamed of in this country, when in truth it should be the opposite.

[babbsnads]

Labour would and should be the real opposition in this country. People seem to think being working class is something to be ashamed of in this country, when in truth it should be the opposite.

I think the thing that stops labour being the opposition is the fact that they're always waiting to see which way the land lies without producing some policies of their own.

[born red 79]

I always vote Labour. Right wing conservative governments deny people rights that other citizens in this country enjoy. Labour for me.

[CrazyDaize]

I always vote Labour. Right wing conservative governments deny people rights that other citizens in this country enjoy. Labour for me.

Such as?

[Badman]

i dont think we'll see a labour/FG coalition - both parties ahve said they are poles apart on policy in key areas and neither leader would like to accede and let the other be taoiseach. Bizarrely enough i actually think you have a better chance of seeing a labour/FF coalition with gilmore being taoiseach coz FF are like a cheap two-bit hooker, they'll hop into bed with anyone. I'm not saying that that particular coalition would work, but as one other poster said you DO need some bit of leadership experience, especially in the midst of a crippling recession and labour and FG hardly have 10mins experience in govt in the past quarter of a century, so trusting their inexperience to get us on an eve keel could be very dangerous.
either way i havent a clue whats gonna happen altho i do see a general election by next summer...to be honest if you had left the cast of fraggle Rock lead the country for the past 5-6 years they couldnt have screwed it up as bad as bertie and co. did

[CrazyHorse]

i dont think we'll see a labour/FG coalition - both parties ahve said they are poles apart on policy in key areas and neither leader would like to accede and let the other be taoiseach. Bizarrely enough i actually think you have a better chance of seeing a labour/FF coalition with gilmore being taoiseach coz FF are like a cheap two-bit hooker, they'll hop into bed with anyone. I'm not saying that that particular coalition would work, but as one other poster said you DO need some bit of leadership experience, especially in the midst of a crippling recession and labour and FG hardly have 10mins experience in govt in the past quarter of a century, so trusting their inexperience to get us on an eve keel could be very dangerous.
either way i havent a clue whats gonna happen altho i do see a general election by next summer...to be honest if you had left the cast of fraggle Rock lead the country for the past 5-6 years they couldnt have screwed it up as bad as bertie and co. did

Badman, I have one bone of contention with this...

When you say "The cast" of Fraggle Rock, do you mean the actual characters (Uncle Travelling Matt et al), or the puppeteers themselves? :confused:

Either way, both would have done a better job than the goons that have been in charge of our country for the last 20 years!

[Benbecul97]

Would we be better off with no FF or FG in Government?

For this to happen it would mean Labour would need either an overall majority or at least 70ish seats (and then get the remaining 13ish seats from one or more of SF, Inds, Greens etc). And there may well be a swing to the left but there isnt a snowballs chance in hell that it will be that dramatic!

Would we be better off with no FF in Government...definitely.

[Bren100]

I like Labour but they are too small to run this country. Eamonn Gilmore is a good as any of them but hasnt got the experience.

[Captain_Morgan]

we need a monty brewster type election: None of the above

Im sick of ff, all im hearing about is the smart economy, fcuk off with that for a start, imagine a lad who has been a plumber for 30 years and we have to tell him to retrain and be a biotechnician. Then i hear of these schemes where ff will create 60,000 new jobs in the next 5 years, well what about the other 390,000 on the dole will they just feel happy for the 60,000 that got off it.

The country is in the shitter the live register is going up and up and we have to listen to bulldung from ministers about how stable we are now and forecasted growth for next year which may never arise if our finances continue to deteriorate. And why cant our ministers have a background in their cabinet positions, what medical experience has mary harney, brian lenihan is a solicitior where is his financial experience.

FG are a decent party but enda kenny drags them down, he comes across as power hungry and desperate, he showed a real weakness in keeping richard bruton when he challenged his leadership that alone has put me off voting for fg.

Eamon gilmore is a popular leader at present but that is only because kenny and cowen are completely clueless, if it came to an election id still expect labour to finish 3rd.

So id vote none of the above, maybe IK could set up a political party, we might not get any seats but the sessions would be serious

[Rover 609]

Where a worldwide joke,socialists will have a field day at the next election,can see a stack of independants getting elected.

gRZvERI5nf8

[megager]

we need a monty brewster type election: None of the above

Im sick of ff, all im hearing about is the smart economy, fcuk off with that for a start, imagine a lad who has been a plumber for 30 years and we have to tell him to retrain and be a biotechnician. Then i hear of these schemes where ff will create 60,000 new jobs in the next 5 years, well what about the other 390,000 on the dole will they just feel happy for the 60,000 that got off it.

The country is in the shitter the live register is going up and up and we have to listen to bulldung from ministers about how stable we are now and forecasted growth for next year which may never arise if our finances continue to deteriorate. And why cant our ministers have a background in their cabinet positions, what medical experience has mary harney, brian lenihan is a solicitior where is his financial experience.

FG are a decent party but enda kenny drags them down, he comes across as power hungry and desperate, he showed a real weakness in keeping richard bruton when he challenged his leadership that alone has put me off voting for fg.

Eamon gilmore is a popular leader at present but that is only because kenny and cowen are completely clueless, if it came to an election id still expect labour to finish 3rd.

So id vote none of the above, maybe IK could set up a political party, we might not get any seats but the sessions would be serious


Id agree with all of this. Lack of options really. Why dont Ireland have a raving looney party like the UK.

[Badman]

Id agree with all of this. Lack of options really. Why dont Ireland have a raving looney party like the UK.

They do - its called Fianna Fail

[Sarge]

I like Labour but they are too small to run this country. Eamonn Gilmore is a good as any of them but hasnt got the experience.

So lets us just go with Cowen or bloody Enda Kenny? No thanks.

[F@ces]

..... And why cant our ministers have a background in their cabinet positions, what medical experience has mary harney, brian lenihan is a solicitior where is his financial experience.
....

This is a very good point I've thought a lot about in recent times. We have people making decisions relating to science & education, medicine, child care, drug & alcohol policies, financial etc that really lack the knowledge and experience to do so.

In many ways that represents all thats wrong to me today about our government (and indeed arguably, most worldwide).

[rev]

This is a very good point I've thought a lot about in recent times. We have people making decisions relating to science & education, medicine, child care, drug & alcohol policies, financial etc that really lack the knowledge and experience to do so.

In many ways that represents all thats wrong to me today about our government (and indeed arguably, most worldwide).

For the wages Ministers get paid, you could hire a top CEO in the chosen class to run the Department.. If he's not up to scratch, fire him!

A Barrister/Solicitor making a countries financial decisions is a joke! Simples

[F@ces]

For the wages Ministers get paid, you could hire a top CEO in the chosen class to run the Department.. If he's not up to scratch, fire him!

A Barrister/Solicitor making a countries financial decisions is a joke! Simples

Spot on!

[bobby benitez]

For the wages Ministers get paid, you could hire a top CEO in the chosen class to run the Department.. If he's not up to scratch, fire him!

A Barrister/Solicitor making a countries financial decisions is a joke! Simples

Disagree, the top CEO's in this country earn way more than any minister, they don't have to share a merc and they don't get paint thrown at them.

I can't understand why anyone would put themselves forward for that, Harney and Lenihan in particular have "mission impossible" jobs, they get the same pay as the minister for sport and they don't have to do a tap.

Out of the entire Dail I'd say less than 10 have anything about them at all.

[F@ces]

Disagree, the top CEO's in this country earn way more than any minister, they don't have to share a merc and they don't get paint thrown at them.

I can't understand why anyone would put themselves forward for that, Harney and Lenihan in particular have "mission impossible" jobs, they get the same pay as the minister for sport and they don't have to do a tap.

Out of the entire Dail I'd say less than 10 have anything about them at all.

Understand your point on pay, but irrespective we can surely put a more educated and experienced group in these positions.

Besides (and haven't double checked the math but I think I'm close), isn't there something like 16 ministers sharing 24 cars, taking up Garda time with drivers, and costing the state about €5m a year? I think somthing like €4.2m goes on the Garda wages alone.

Give them a nice motor if they want, and let them drive it themselves! :p

[Podgecheco]

Disagree, the top CEO's in this country earn way more than any minister, they don't have to share a merc and they don't get paint thrown at them.

I can't understand why anyone would put themselves forward for that, Harney and Lenihan in particular have "mission impossible" jobs, they get the same pay as the minister for sport and they don't have to do a tap.

Out of the entire Dail I'd say less than 10 have anything about them at all.

I know what your saying about them having impossible jobs but i would only have sympathy for the ones that were recently elected, the majority had a good ride until 2 years ago..

If im being honest and i mean no disrespect to the founding fathers the whole system is wanked. The Irish government was created nearly 90 years ago, its outdated and imo doesnt not work in modern society. As the lads said you have the wrong people in charge of the wrong jobs which is an obvious eample of how the party comes before the country. Were losing countless young, talented and highly educated people to emigration, probably one of the best generations ireland has produced in a education sense. I honestly think a good old fashioned revolution is the making

[bobby benitez]

I know what your saying about them having impossible jobs but i would only have sympathy for the ones that were recently elected, the majority had a good ride until 2 years ago..

If im being honest and i mean no disrespect to the founding fathers the whole system is wanked. The Irish government was created nearly 90 years ago, its outdated and imo doesnt not work in modern society. As the lads said you have the wrong people in charge of the wrong jobs which is an obvious eample of how the party comes before the country. Were losing countless young, talented and highly educated people to emigration, probably one of the best generations ireland has produced in a education sense. I honestly think a good old fashioned revolution is the making

Your taking me up wrong there, I never said I had sympathy for them. My point was in reply to Rev's that we should get top CEO's in. The guy who runs the ESB is on over 500k per year, just compare his handy number to that of Harney/Lenihan and ask yourself why anyone would want to take on that job.

Regading a revolution, I'm shocked nobody has set up a new political party, purely on the basis of them not being FF/FG/Labour etc would have been enough to win an election in a landslide. Probably not too late either.

[Podgecheco]

Sorry man i knew ya didnt mean sympathy but it was the only word i could use really!yeah i reckon thats only a matter of time really

[GaryMc]

See Mary Harney got red paint throwin over her today

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/harney-condemns-councillors-red-paint-protest-480004.html

[glen]

See Mary Harney got red paint throwin over her today

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/harney-condemns-councillors-red-paint-protest-480004.html

saw that brilliant delighted she got painted i wonder who's next cowen lenihan????

[Carroll9]

saw that brilliant delighted she got painted i wonder who's next cowen lenihan????

Thought it was disgraceful myself.No one deserves to be treated like that.I'm not defending Mary Harney or any other politician for that matter but there's a way to get your point across without chucking paint over someone.

[glen]

Thought it was disgraceful myself.No one deserves to be treated like that.I'm not defending Mary Harney or any other politician for that matter but there's a way to get your point across without chucking paint over someone.

well maybe not paint that was harsh in all fairness a bottle of water would of done but ive not respect for any of our leaders they wont listen to the people and keep screwing us so they deserve everything they get

[byrnetred]

SF won their court battle about the bi-election been delayed

FF/GP have a majority of 3 with Kim mcdaid gone, 3 bi-elections will now have to be held

Time to step up to the plate enda/ eamon

[Benbecul97]

Why waste money on 4 bye-elections they are going to lose and then be forced to call a general election anyway.

Time to step up to the plate Brian / John.

[glen]

either way when this is all over i think ff will be out of power i dont know if fg will be any better but it cant get much worse so i for one would like a change and see what happens

[Red7778]

I would like to think yes, since the foundation of this State we have not gone without one or the other in power. So with all of their links to big business and Irelands 'elite' should a new fresh Government be able to start a new era in Irish Politics?

Thoughts please.

I think if politicians want to be taking seriously they must first abandon their state cars and drive via car pool.
2. expenses must be vouched.
3. Ministerial pensions can only be drawn when it matures.

They would be my three top conditions. At this stage would be happy see FFers on opposition bench but not entirely convinced FG are that different.

[GaryMc]

When did Brendan Grace become deputy leader of Fine Gael?

http://www.imt.ie/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/James-Reilly-e1282056822357.jpg

[callyno3]

When did Brendan Grace become deputy leader of Fine Gael?

http://www.imt.ie/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/James-Reilly-e1282056822357.jpg

LOL!!

I heard the 2 applegreen sites on the M1 were located on his land (not brendan grace :) ) that and the land sold by the labour leaders wife for incredible money makes me believe they are all as bad as each other.

[Red7778]

When did Brendan Grace become deputy leader of Fine Gael?




You mean Jim McCann dont you?
http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/252/395694.jpg

[Axel96]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0114/breaking27.html

Senator Ivor Callely has won his High Court action aimed at overturning a Seanad committee?s finding that he misrepresented his normal place of residence to claim expenses.

The High Court found this morning the Seanad Select Committee of Members? Interests breached Mr Callely?s constitutional right to natural justice and fair procedures in its decision.

The former Fianna Fail senator was suspended from the Seanad for 20 days last July after the committee made a finding he had intentionally misrepresented his normal place of residence as Kilcrohane, Co Cork, in order to claim expenses.

Mr Justice Iarfhlaith O?Neill said today the committee had misdirected itself in law on the definition of a ?normal place of residence? and had breached natural justice and fair procedures in failing to give Mr Callely a reasonable opportunity to defend himself on a charge of breach of political ethics.

Mr Justice O?Neill quashed the committee?s decision and the corresponding resolution of the Seanad to suspend Mr Callely. This judgment runs to 73 pages.

Lawyers for Mr Callely said they wanted to consider the implications of the judge?s ruling, and the matter will return to court the week after next.

Mr Callely had argued the committee made a political and ethical decision against him that he claims it was not entitled to do. He also claimed it was biased against him.

The committee disregarded the Department of Finance?s definition of a normal place of residence for the purposes of claiming expenses when it made a determination against him, Mr Callely also alleged.

His lawyers argued in court last October that he had complied with the definition and was entitled to make the expenses claim he had. The case, which raised broader questions about the relationship between the courts and the Oireachtas, was heard over three days before Mr Justice O?Neill.

In November, Mr Justice O?Neill invited both sides to make further submissions in the light of Sinn Fein Senator Pearse Doherty?s successful High Court challenge to the Government?s 16-month delay in holding the Donegal South-West by-election.

The members of the committee are Senator Pat Moylan, who is also Seanad Cathaoirleach; Camillus Glynn (FF); Denis O?Donovan (FF); Joe O?Toole (Independent); Alex White (Labour); Frances Fitzgerald (Fine Gael); and Dan Boyle (Greens).

Mr Boyle removed himself from the committee because of previous comments he had made about Mr Callely; he was replaced by Green Party Senator Mark Deary.

[Andrew]

What a joke. The guy was pocketing tax payers money and should be held responsible for his actions. Instead he's getting off on a ridiculous legal technicality.

[Axel96]

What a joke. The guy was pocketing tax payers money and should be held responsible for his actions. Instead he's getting off on a ridiculous legal technicality.

Would make you sick mate...these people think they can do as they please...but then again they usually can as their friends the judges will back them...

[Derekc]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0114/breaking27.html

Senator Ivor Callely has won his High Court action aimed at overturning a Seanad committee?s finding that he misrepresented his normal place of residence to claim expenses.

The High Court found this morning the Seanad Select Committee of Members? Interests breached Mr Callely?s constitutional right to natural justice and fair procedures in its decision.

The former Fianna Fail senator was suspended from the Seanad for 20 days last July after the committee made a finding he had intentionally misrepresented his normal place of residence as Kilcrohane, Co Cork, in order to claim expenses.

Mr Justice Iarfhlaith O?Neill said today the committee had misdirected itself in law on the definition of a ?normal place of residence? and had breached natural justice and fair procedures in failing to give Mr Callely a reasonable opportunity to defend himself on a charge of breach of political ethics.

Mr Justice O?Neill quashed the committee?s decision and the corresponding resolution of the Seanad to suspend Mr Callely. This judgment runs to 73 pages.

Lawyers for Mr Callely said they wanted to consider the implications of the judge?s ruling, and the matter will return to court the week after next.

Mr Callely had argued the committee made a political and ethical decision against him that he claims it was not entitled to do. He also claimed it was biased against him.

The committee disregarded the Department of Finance?s definition of a normal place of residence for the purposes of claiming expenses when it made a determination against him, Mr Callely also alleged.

His lawyers argued in court last October that he had complied with the definition and was entitled to make the expenses claim he had. The case, which raised broader questions about the relationship between the courts and the Oireachtas, was heard over three days before Mr Justice O?Neill.

In November, Mr Justice O?Neill invited both sides to make further submissions in the light of Sinn Fein Senator Pearse Doherty?s successful High Court challenge to the Government?s 16-month delay in holding the Donegal South-West by-election.

The members of the committee are Senator Pat Moylan, who is also Seanad Cathaoirleach; Camillus Glynn (FF); Denis O?Donovan (FF); Joe O?Toole (Independent); Alex White (Labour); Frances Fitzgerald (Fine Gael); and Dan Boyle (Greens).

Mr Boyle removed himself from the committee because of previous comments he had made about Mr Callely; he was replaced by Green Party Senator Mark Deary.


Ridiculous the way they get away with white collar crime. The b*llox claimed invoices for fakes companies ffs.

[vincenzo]

****ing disgrace. Can't wait to give it to FF whenever this election happens.

[Axel96]

****ing disgrace. Can't wait to give it to FF whenever this election happens.

Going to give them hell if they call to my door!!

[babbsnads]

Im looking forward to the greens knocking on the door too. They really are on a different planet with their self indulgent politics. I'm certain a mother who struggles to feed and keep a roof over her kids just lies awake at night praying the climate change bill gets passed.

[bobby benitez]

Im looking forward to the greens knocking on the door too. They really are on a different planet with their self indulgent politics. I'm certain a mother who struggles to feed and keep a roof over her kids just lies awake at night praying the climate change bill gets passed.

In fairness to the potatoe pushers they have done exactly as they said they would. They are interested in incerators, electric cars, carbon emmissons, bikes etc, all this banking stuff and the economy and the likes is not really they're thing.

You get what you vote for and we got Cowen and a bunch of hippies.