Nama

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0330/breaking63.html


Main points of first loan transfers to Nama

The following are the main points of the first loan transfers to Nama :

1 Nama will acquire over 1,200 individual loans with nominal value of €16 billion for a consideration of €8.5 billion, an average discount of 47 per cent.

2 It transferred an initial tranche of loans from Irish Nationwide Building Society and EBS Building Society yesterday.

3 The Agency will transfer the first batch of loans from Bank of Ireland on Friday, April 2nd.

4 The first tranche of loans from AIB and Anglo Irish Bank are expected to be completed by early April.

5 Transfer of remaining loans from all five institutions is expected to be completed by the end of the year and no later than end February 2011, a deadline set by the European Commission.

6 Nama anticipates it will purchase loans with a nominal value of €81 billion.

7 Nama will pay AIB €1.88 billion for loans worth €3.29 billion, a discount of 43 per cent.

8 It will pay €5 billion for €10 billion of Anglo Irish loans.

9 Bank of Ireland will get €1.26 billion for loans worth €1.93 billion.

 

The worry is that a lot of the land that has been bought up will never recover to pre recession prices and that even though nama are paying a huge discount they might never turn a profit on those loans

 

We're fcuked either way with NAMA!

Altho looking at the figures above, BOI looked to get off the easiest on this round

 

Discount for Land is nowhere near close to the mark.It needs to be in excess of 85% for zoned land outside the main cities. Most of this land will have go back to what it was since time began. Agricultural land valued at €20k rather than the €1m an acre.
Nama imo will never recover its value as the speculators are gone as are the clowns who lent the money to them in the first place.

 

I reckon they'll make money on it in the end, 43% is a big discount.

I'd be interested to see the overall breakdown between land and property and the location of the €80bn of loans, but if the breakdown of the initial €8bn is a reflection of it I would say that it will make money at a 43% discount.

But I did back Arsenal to beat Birmingham at the weekend, so I've been wrong before.

This gives the breakdown of the €8bn, €3bn in Britain is a lot more than I expected. Not sure why they included the mobile phone numbers of the 2 lads at the end.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0330/namaloans.pdf

 

One example of the values was a piece of land in Athlone bought for €31 million was recently valued at €600,000 and the €450 million land at the docklands now virtually worthless.

 

Does that include inflation Lionel. Biggest swindle in Irish history. Shower of crooks the lot of them. The banks will start robbing mortage payers soon enough and then their tax is paying their wages. Only in Ireland

 

Yeah, there are plenty of horror stories like that included, but if the mix of undeveloped land is as low as the first €8.5bn and property prices make any sort of come back in the next 10 years, which they probably will, it may work out ok.

The Docklands one is getting plenty of focus, but if you think about it at around €240m when you take the discount into account, it represents about 0.3% of the whole of what Nama have taken on. I reckon we might see a few government departments down there in future, in an attempt to cut Nama's loss on that one.

 

+ 1

a 40 or 50% discount aint gona cover this along with all the ghost estates...they are virtually worthless now

 

They should have just nationalized the banks. Speculators will get away with it while working class people will be paying for it for years.
If they really cared about ordinary people they would revalue mortgages

 

Property prices will not come back as the banks will not lend to speculators without massive equity and the investors have not got the required equity nor the stomach for it as there will be little or no growth, therefore the risk far outweighs the possible gain.
Secondly the Docklands land is toxic and therefore at present to expensive to develop as there are to many other cheaper alternatives and also govt depts will be downsizing not expanding.

 

It will cost every man, woman and child in this country about €10,000 for this monumental f*ck up.

The rich get richer. The poor inherit the debt.

 

exactly, we will be years and years paying this off.

I dont like Joan Bruton but she made a good point on TV3 last night: for the next 10+ years regardless of who is running the country the minister for finance is going to have to put money towards this, taking money gained in tax away from schools hospitals etc.

Its the legacy these p*icks have left us and our children.

 

It just beggars belief. You were regarded as almost anti-Irish if you even remotely questioned what they were doing. This finally makes things much more real - the questions been asked will the Irish public now say enough is enough and protest/riot - line the streets of Dublin and bring the city to a halt. Maybe we should.

 

Yeah, that's true about the property prices, the worst thing about all this is that keeping the banks in business means that they're still in control of how the whole thing comes back. The government have inserted clauses about how the banks need to loan out certain amounts to SMEs, but it has to be seen how these are enforced. If they can force the banks to loan money and as a result get things back together and reduce unemployment, I think the demand for property will come back and as a result prices will rise in time, but to nothing like previous levels.

But the cause of all this was the banks being let do what they please and running the country into the ground, as a result the government have been backed into a corner and come up with NAMA. I think it's not a bad solution, given the circumstances, but only time will tell. The big thing for me is whether the government will stand up to the banks this time around, whoever the government may end up being. It's going to make for an interesting few years ahead.

 

I know how you feel but it's not really going to help get the country back on its feet though.

the way i see it is: whats done is done, we can cry all we like but we cant change the past. We now find ourselves in this position where the country has been loaded with enormous debt caused by very very few but which will affect us all(ironic were discussing this on LFC forum)

we need to do a few things in my oppinion:

1) put safeguards in place to ensure that this is never allowed to happen again, banks and financial institutions should be kept on a very tight lead and the Financial regulator has to be more proactive in ensuring that these organisations comply to all regulations. the country fcuked up and it would be crazy not to learn a lesson from such an expensive mistake. It should be a criminal offence to be so reckless with the country's finances.

2) Innovate, we need Irish industry, at the moment we have dam all and as a small country we cant hope to prosper without creating real wealth internally (not fake property wealth). We can no longer rely on the american multi-nationals to supply us with jobs.

3) take responsibility: We as a nation are brilliant at passing blame from our political leaders right down to the man on the street. Alot of people in the country bought second and third houses then turn around and blame the banks for lending them money, same with Credit card debt, i have a friend who has run up 000's on her CC and is amazed and bitter that the bank are now charging her interest on her debt. Just coz the banks will give you 500k doesnt mean you should accept it.
the reality of the situation is that people saw a chance to get rich by all becoming landlords etc. If there was no demand for houses the developers wouldnt have built as much.

 

It's great to hear a reasonable opinion on this, I haven't heard one on this, the media or the opposition aren't providing one, the opposition are just trying to make the most of this to ensure they get in when it comes to the next general election.

It's time to deal with the balls up, the banks first and foremost and the government for not regulating properly are at fault. The problem is huge, but what's the point in saying that it's going to cost 3 years tax takings to fix it, no matter what it has to be fixed as the alternative of letting the banks fall is not an option for us.

 

Prendy, good post - I completely agree that there is no point in protests or anything. I just wonder if people will get even more angry now and take to the streets.

One thing I would add to your list of things is that attitude also needs to change somewhat in this country - particularly related to achieving success in business. It's like Bono said years ago on the Late Late - in the US someone could have a rich neighbor who started his own company and now owns a big house/car. They look at that person and go "fair play to him - he built that himself, he employs people etc. I aspire to that". In Ireland we see the same people and become begrudgers, "Ah sure, he's probably driving that big car because he's compensating for something", "Sure I heard that he's doing XYZ behind his wifes back", "Ah, I bet he's not happy with all that money". In this country we have a very poor attitude towards entrepreneurship.

That attitude needs to change as well. We are where we are as you said, and we need to work our way out of it. I believe that both the public and private sectors need improvements to work towards an attitude of hard work and reward for such. No more protected jobs, no more tolerating lazy employers/employees - everyone has to work their asses off in whatever industry they are in to play their part in trying to get the country back on it's feet. Those that add value to their industries should be rewarded; those that cruise through their 9-5 and to get a paycheck and don't give a sh*te shouldn't be. A model whereby those that work hard and dedicate themselves reap the benefits. Maybe that's idealistic, I don't know.

It's the way I see it anyway. Crying isn't gonna solve anything. Hard work might.