Bord Snip

[byrnetred]

not pretty reading

suppose the headline figure will be the proposed public sector jobs cuts and a 5% reduction in social welfare benefits which is fair in my opinion as the majority of us who are working have takin 10% pay cut between increased tax/persion contributions and actual pay cuts and also the cost of living has been reduced


http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0716/economy1.html

'An Bord Snip Nua' has recommended €5.3bn in potential savings, including 17,300 public service job cuts and a 5% drop in social welfare

The 'Special Group on Public Service Numbers and Expenditure Programmes' was chaired by UCD economist Colm McCarthy and runs to some 80 pages with over 200 pages of appendices.

AdvertisementMr McCarthy said the Government was borrowing €400m per week and paying a substantial rate of interest on those borrowings - and this could not continue.

On RTÉ News At One he said the board had to look to the big items of spending, which are health, education and social welfare.

In addition to 17,300 public service job cuts and the 5% reduction in social welfare payments - saving €850m a year - the report says social welfare recipients and Community Employment participants should receive only one payment.

'An Bord Snip Nua' also recommends reducing child benefit payments and simplifying them and revising and simplifying the qualification criteria for the medical card.

The group says the Department of Community, Rural & Gaeltacht Affairs should be closed and its functions redistributed. It also says the need for the Department of Arts, Sports & Tourism should be critically examined and the programme expenditure of both departments should be significantly scaled back.

Transfer payments and expenditure programmes across the agricultural area should be scaled back, according to the report.

It recommends reducing the number of Special Needs Assistants and English Language Support Teachers and introducing charges and co-payment mechanisms for services including, school transport, medicines and home help.

The report also says there should be a further reduction in allowances for TDs and Senators. It recommends reducing the number of Local Authorities from 34 to 22.

OUTLINE OF PROPOSALS

Social and Family Affairs - More

* Cuts to all social welfare payments by 5% - €850m

* Reduction and changes to child benefit - €513m

* An end to receiving two welfare payments - €100m

* An end to payments for Community Employment Schemes for those already on benefit - €100m

* Cutting benefits for dental, optical and hearing services - €92m

* Grading of jobseekers allowance by age - €70m

* Cutting the Family Support Agency - €30m

* Changing eligibility for Family Income Supplement - €20m

* Taxing household benefits package - €11.6m

Staff cuts - None

Total cut €1.8bn

Health and Children

* Reduce the size of the Department by 10% a year over the next three years - €11m

* Reduce HSE staff - €391.3m

* Revise the income guidelines for the Medical Card to the basic rate of social welfare, the jobseekers allowance - €100m

* Increase the threshold for the Drugs Payment Scheme from 4100 to €125 a month - €37m

* Those previously receiving free prescriptions must now pay €5 for each prescription - €70m

* Hold an open competition to provide services under the General Medical Services scheme - €370m

* Increase Hospital Charges - €6m

* Increase charges for private facilities in public hospitals by 20% - €50m

* Hospitals and clinicians must provide generic medicines, off-patent drugs and value-for-money treatments - €30m

* Changes to agencies and organisations in the disability and mental health area which receive State funding - €50m

* Changes to the Fair Deal scheme with the individual to contribute more to nursing home care from their own residence - €50m

* Means test for Homecare packages - €24m

Staff cuts: 6168

Total cuts: €1.2bn

Education and Science

* Staff and pay cuts in primary and post primary schools - €150m

* Staff cuts at third level - €140m

* Cuts to number of special needs assistants and English language support teachers - €81m

* Increased pupil teacher ratio at primary and post primary - €80m

* Change to student support grant - €70m

* Cuts to capitation grants for primary and post primary schools - €25m

* Cuts to research and development - €27.5m

* Cuts to grants for private schools - €25m

* Merging of smaller primary schools - €25m

* Cuts to school transport - €25m

* Integration of senior travelling training - €25m

* Cuts to third level structures - €23.7m

Staff cuts 6,390

Total cut €746m

Agriculture - More

* Reduce expenditure on the Disadvantaged Area Compensatory Allowance Scheme by 30% - €66m

* Terminate the Suckler Cow Scheme - €44m

* Close REPS 4 and no rollover from REPS 2 and 3 into REPS 4 - €80m

* Reduce Teagasc staff numbers, rationalise Teagasc and Dept offices - €37m

Total cuts €305m

Staff cuts 1,140 staff

Enterprise, Trade and Employment

* Merge the regional offices and shared services of Enterprise Ireland, IDA and FÁS - €87m

* A single reduced funding stream for all science, technology and innovation activities across all departments - €53m

* Streamline all support of Irish enterprises and marketing functions in Enterprise Ireland - €10m

* Stop funding the FÁS Services to Business and Skillnets programmes - €27m

* Cuts to training allowances for the unemployed - €24.5m

Total cuts €237.7m

Staff cuts 594

Community Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs

* Cuts to Community Services Programmes - €64m

* Cuts to Gaeltacht Schemes - €20.8m

* Cuts to islands infrastructure - €20m

Staff cuts 196

Total cut €151m

Environment, Heritage and Local Government

* Cuts to local government including an end to 12 county or town councils - €100m

* Further efficiencies - €30m

Staff cuts 30

Total cut €130m

Transport

* Efficiencies among CIE companies - €55m

* Cuts to road maintenance - €20m

* Cuts to regional air services - €15m

* Axing the Rural Transport Scheme - €11m

* Outsourcing of driver and vehicle testing - €10m

* Cuts to the Road Saferty Authority - €4.2m

* Merging the National Roads Authority and the Railway Procurement Agency - €3m

* Merging the National Vehicle and Driver File into the Road Safety Authority - €2m

Staff cuts 80

Total cut €127.1m

Arts, Sports and Tourism

* Cuts in allocation to tourism and marketing - €27m

* Cut in grant to Sports Council - €17.7m

* Cut allocation to Horse and Greyhound Fund - €16.4m

Staff cuts 170

Total cut €104.8m

Justice

* Cuts to pay and allowances for justice sector staff - including gardai - €65m

* Cuts to the courts service - €13.5m

* Cuts in immigration staff - €10m

* Transfer disability functions of department to Department of Health - €2.6m

* Cuts to Youth Detention Centres - €2.5m

Staff cuts 540

Total cut €136.4m

Communications, Energy and Natural Resources

* Cuts to energy efficiency schemes run by Sustainable Energy Ireland - €40m

* Cuts to direct funding to TG4 - to be partially funded from licence fee - €10m

Staff cuts 106

Total cuts €65.6m

Defence - More

* Measures including a reduction in Defence Forces personnel by more than 500

Total cuts €53m

Staff cuts 520

Finance

* Cuts to the Office of Public Works - reducing spare capacity and rental costs - €21m
Staff cuts 660

Total cuts €82.8m

Department of Foreign Affairs

* Cuts to overseas missions - €15m

* Cuts to overseas aid - €14.8m

* Cuts to Support for Irish Emigrants - €1m

Staff cuts 65

Total cut €41.7m

Houses of the Oireachtas Commission

* Changes to some operations - €6m

* Cuts to Oireachtas Allowances and Benefits - €1.5m

Total cuts €7.8m

Staff cuts 42

National Treasury Management Agency

* Reduce staff and other administrative costs - €5.3m

* Changes at the State Claims Agency including payment schemes, legal fees and risk management services

Total cuts €5.3m

Staff cuts 40

Department of the Taoiseach

* An end to the National Economic and Social Development Organisation - except for the National Economic and Social Council - €4m

* Axing the Law Reform Commission - €2.8m

* Cuts to the cost of Census 2011 - €2.2m

Staff cuts 77

Total Cut €17.5m

[liamo3]

Seems to be hitting social welfare big time. Child benefit cuts :(

[wonit5times]

Cut, cut, cut and your cut too......thats alot of cuts!!

some people goin to be very angry with this

[fermoyred80]

When is this due to kick in

[byrnetred]

When is this due to kick inthey are only recommendations,

[Rover 609]

Seems to be hitting social welfare big time. Child benefit cuts :(

Social welfare rates in this country ridiculously high Liam in fairness.No incentive to work unless you can guarantee work as a single person that earns you e500+ a week.

[liamo3]

Social welfare rates in this country ridiculously high Liam in fairness.No incentive to work unless you can guarantee work as a single person that earns you e500+ a week.

Guess your right Ronan only problem is the lack of jobs out there for them. But what needs to happen is for prices to be slashed everywere. There are still places out there that are charging same prices they were when there was plenty of money about.

[fermoyred80]

Social welfare rates in this country ridiculously high Liam in fairness.No incentive to work unless you can guarantee work as a single person that earns you e500+ a week.

Agree there lad.

IMO what they should do with the people signing on is to get them to do at least two days a week local work i.e. painting, cutting local parks etc. That way it cuts down on the council workers and also gives them something to do.

[born red 79]

Testing times alright. Think it's time I was pro- active.

LOTTO!!

[bryanod]

Good!

Pity they can't implement anything without strikes and protests and god knows what which will jsut lead to the need for more job losses and worsen the economy.

[serpheus]

I'm on the dole since feb & i think it should be means tested, i'm living out of home & half my dole goes on rent while another good chunk of it pays bills,food etc. Saying that i would agree on 10% be taken off to help get the economy back together. This country has been taken for a big enough ride the last few years by lazy irish fcukers & especially foreign nationals who come here just to sign on(i don't want to start a racist issue because i know a lot of them work hard).

[LFC_Mark]

well thats may job gone when my contracts up next month, cut spending by 6 million for the council and IT will be hit first :(

[fermoyred80]

I'm on the dole since feb & i think it should be means tested, i'm living out of home & half my dole goes on rent while another good chunk of it pays bills,food etc. Saying that i would agree on 10% be taken off to help get the economy back together. This country has been taken for a big enough ride the last few years by lazy irish fcukers & especially foreign nationals who come here just to sign on(i don't want to start a racist issue because i know a lot of them work hard).

And they are on alot more than the JB allowance when you include all the other social benefits like housing etc

[serpheus]

And they are on alot more than the JB allowance when you include all the other social benefits like housing etc
Exactly mate, they are given free houses & prams plus a lot more, they are practically encouraged to have as many kids as they can because they know they will get sorted. Its a pity that its the hardworking men & women of this country & people who are on the dole who would give their left arm for a job are getting most affected.
There, have you ever been to a community welfare officer in your local clinic, it would open your eyes.

[bobby benitez]

I wonder who will back down 1st. We have a bunch of pussys in government who back down when grannies start shouting.

Some of my own suggestions:
1) Tax fathers of single parents - I know stacks of people living with their "partners" who arent supposed to be while their partners receive rent allowance.
2) Cut all funding to GAA,FAI and IRFU - they are big enough to look after themselves.
3) Tax all baskets in the church.
4) get rid of artists exemptions.
I will add more later.

[redeagle]

...Saying that i would agree on 10% be taken off to help get the economy back together. This country has been taken for a big enough ride the last few years by lazy irish fcukers & especially foreign nationals who come here just to sign on(i don't want to start a racist issue because i know a lot of them work hard)

Exactly mate, they are given free houses & prams plus a lot more, they are practically encouraged to have as many kids as they can because they know they will get sorted. Its a pity that its the hardworking men & women of this country & people who are on the dole who would give their left arm for a job are getting most affected.




I'm sorry but thats just utter nonsense and its a typical highly ignorant attitude when the wheels of capitalism come spinning off. People pointing the finger at myths and whispers, "if only we didn't have these people here, everything would be fine or things wouldn't be as bad"

Its an absurd theory based on nothing and it does nothing but blind people from the actual problems.

If you are to blame anyone why not the people who make the decisions? Why wasn't ireland investing in various industries rather than property speculation and high priced goods to fuel its economy? Why is the country heading for bankruptcy because of the handling of the "economic crisis"? or "why did we base our whole economy on a financial capitalist model that was doomed to fail"?

Next you will be agreeing a decrease in minimum wage and more taxation.

[SUPERFAN]

Some of my own suggestions:
1) Tax fathers of single parents - I know stacks of people living with their "partners" who arent supposed to be while their partners receive rent allowance.

very hard for anyone to prove if someone is "living" in a house.
i'm living with my missus and kids for the last 12 years and i'm not supposed to be living there.it's a council house i might add,she never claimed a penny in rent allowance.
i make no apologies for doing it,you do what you have to do to get by.
if i was married i'd be fcukin crippled now the way things are going,i don't know how anyone does it to be honest....

[serpheus]

I'm sorry but thats just utter nonsense and its a typical highly ignorant attitude when the wheels of capitalism come spinning off. People pointing the finger at myths and whispers, "if only we didn't have these people here, everything would be fine or things wouldn't be as bad"

Its an absurd theory based on nothing and it does nothing but blind people from the actual problems.

If you are to blame anyone why not the people who make the decisions? Why wasn't ireland investing in various industries rather than property speculation and high priced goods to fuel its economy? Why is the country heading for bankruptcy because of the handling of the "economic crisis"? or "why did we base our whole economy on a financial capitalist model that was doomed to fail"?

Next you will be agreeing a decrease in minimum wage and more taxation.
Then i would be contradicting myself since i stated my support for the workers. It's not 'myths & whispers' when you witness something with your own eyes which i have.

[redeagle]

Then i would be contradicting myself since i stated my support for the workers.

where exactly and supporting them how?

witnessing what, you see one person claiming social welfare and its their fault? You missed the point of what I was saying completely.

[serpheus]

And you missed my point by what you just said

[redeagle]

And you missed my point by what you just said

Yes, sadly your undertones of racism and the failings to understand the causes of this economic problem were prominent in the two posts you made in this thread were pretty evident to anyone who can read.

You are the same as everyone else with a "taxi driver" opinion, shooting straight from the hip with notions bordering on absolute lunacy.

Also thats great support for the workers you are showing while in the electricians strike thread you claimed to "have no sympathy for them"

[serpheus]

Yes, sadly your undertones of racism and the failings to understand the causes of this economic problem were prominent in the two posts you made in this thread were pretty evident to anyone who can read.

You are the same as everyone else with a "taxi driver" opinion, shooting straight from the hip with notions bordering on absolute lunacy.

Also thats great support for the workers you are showing while in the electricians strike thread you claimed to "have no sympathy for them"

I have no sympathy for someone looking for a raise when they have a job in these hard times, as for my racist attitude you can think what you want about me because i don't know you & you don't know me so i couldn't care less what you think. My opinion is based on what i have seen with my own eyes especially when i went to my local community welfare officer to try get rent allowance & seen & heard people looking for all sorts including money to go out on a saturday night.

[Gerry]

Right just so as everyone is clear any posts containing personal insults will be removed, and the person responsible will be banned for a month, to many threads in this section have been binned beacuse of people throwing out insults!

[redeagle]

I have no sympathy for someone looking for a raise when they have a job in these hard times, as for my racist attitude you can think what you want about me because i don't know you & you don't know me so i couldn't care less what you think. My opinion is based on what i have seen with my own eyes especially when i went to my local community welfare officer to try get rent allowance & seen & heard people looking for all sorts including money to go out on a saturday night.

Whats the point of having a job if you are not being payed adequately for it, why should workers take the hit again and again when people in ivory towers are bailed out? Striking is a last resort but its important for unions to stand up to employers now more than ever.

Also I don't care what you saw or heard, labelling "lazy irish fu*kers and foreign nationals" as spongers is not an argument.

[serpheus]

Whats the point of having a job if you are not being payed adequately for it, why should workers take the hit again and again when people in ivory towers are bailed out? Striking is a last resort but its important for unions to stand up to employers now more than ever.

Also I don't care what you saw or heard, labelling "lazy irish fu*kers and foreign nationals" as spongers is not an argument.

1.Never said it was an argument just an opinion
2.They are being paid adequately (electricians)
3.I'm only talking about a small part of a major problem
4.I agree the buck stops with the goverment
5.Make sure you know someone before accusing them of racism
6.I want the 2 yanks out of anfield does that make me racist against americans?

[redeagle]

1.Never said it was an argument just an opinion
2.They are being paid adequately (electricians)
3.I'm only talking about a small part of a major problem
4.I agree the buck stops with the goverment
5.Make sure you know someone before accusing them of racism

1. Its an ill thought out opinion and holds no water, its pointless and doesn't contribute to anything.

2. again, why should ordinary workers take the hit of a 10%? If they just accepted it employers in various sectors would have done the same, "an injury to one is an injury to all". Taking one for "team ireland" isn't acceptable.

3. Again you openly claimed that, "This country has been taken for a big enough ride the last few years by lazy irish fcukers & especially foreign nationals who come here just to sign on(i don't want to start a racist issue because i know a lot of them work hard)." Doesn't seem like a "small part", its a prejudice that needs to be knocked on the head, if you see a polish man walking down the street at 12 noon on a wednesday are you more likely you make a judgement that hes claiming dole than working? I'm not expecting you to answer that but you can see where I am coming from.

4.;)


5. I never said you were a racist, I just said your post had undertones of racism.

6. No, because you are basing your opinion on there handling of the club rather than their nationality, ( I'd presume)

[SUPERFAN]

you hear all sorts of stories about what foreign nationals are claiming here.i can only speak from my experience,a girl i know from romania who is living here doesn't get a penny,the only thing she gets off the state is the children's allowance every month and that's been stopped on her at the mo.she had to send in proof that the kids are attending school here and is waiting to see if they'll give it back to her.they're cracking down cos a lot of people were claiming for kids and were flying in on the 1st tuesday of every month and straight back out as soon as they got their money.
she gets no rent allowance,has to pay every penny of her rent herself.
i don't know what the story is with asylum seekers but this myth that all foreign nationals get loads of free stuff is just that from what i've seen...

[gav003]

I find it sickening child benefits are recommended to be cut across the board

[D-Red]

I find it sickening child benefits are recommended to be cut across the board

Would fully agree. Not in a position where it makes any odds to me on a personal level but I would hope that that recommendation is one that gets refused. Just doesn't seem quite right.

Have my own opinions on some of the other points too, but these Current affair threads turn into all out slagging matches too often.

[serpheus]

I never said electricians should be deducted 10%, i was of the opinion that they should stay on the same money. I had a feeling my opinion would come across in the wrong way especially what i put in brackets. If i saw a polish man walking down the street at 12 noon on a wednesday i'd ask him to tell his friends to stop getting their mail delivered to my address:)

[MrsPepe]

I find it sickening child benefits are recommended to be cut across the board

Do you agree with it been means tested if you earn over a certain amount?
(Im talking seriously over a certain amount, over a grand a week?)

Reason I ask, my mam worked for a woman who owns a timber company,has about 12 hses in her area, 3 in dublin, 2 abroad, kids are set for life, all drive top of the range cars/jeeps etc. Fair play to her and all that, she and her husband have worked hard, but do you think she should be means tested for CB?

[gav003]

Do you agree with it been means tested if you earn over a certain amount?
(Im talking seriously over a certain amount, over a grand a week?)

Reason I ask, my mam worked for a woman who owns a timber company,has about 12 hses in her area, 3 in dublin, 2 abroad, kids are set for life, all drive top of the range cars/jeeps etc. Fair play to her and all that, she and her husband have worked hard, but do you think she should be means tested for CB?

I personally would agree with it being means tested (or significantly reduced)- it's hard to say where the bar should be set though. The example you give shows this woman gets the same allowance as for eg a single mother working while her kid(s are at school.) This imo is not on.
But does that mean there will the same balls up as there was with the medical card means testing from a while back???

[MrsPepe]

I personally would agree with it being means tested (or significantly reduced)- it's hard to say where the bar should be set though. The example you give shows this woman gets the same allowance as for eg a single mother working while her kid(s are at school.) This imo is not on.
But does that mean there will the same balls up as there was with the medical card means testing from a while back???

probably, they same to make a total balls of it when they decide to make or implement changes. It always seems to be the people who wont suffer as a result of these changes that make the decisions.

[byrnetred]

I find it sickening child benefits are recommended to be cut across the boardcost of living has dropped alot over the last year so all benefits should reflect that

been more specific to child benefit, any household that earns say 80k should not receive any child benfit, this area will hopefully be means tested

[rev]

1) Tax fathers of single parents

And what would this acheive? :confused:

[Aido82]

whats the story with the job cuts, can they just sack people in the public service??

i dont see how sacking another 170000, having to pay redundency then benefits for these people will save money. Any way i heard the unions are ready for all out strike, so i doubt this will happen, as far as contractors or consultants employed within these departments i imagine they will be the first casualties

[byrnetred]

whats the story with the job cuts, can they just sack people in the public service??

i dont see how sacking another 170000, having to pay redundency then benefits for these people will save money. Any way i heard the unions are ready for all out strike, so i doubt this will happen, as far as contractors or consultants employed within these departments i imagine they will be the first casualtiesnatural redundencys, people retiring, people leaving, etc,...not been replaced

[Aido82]

closure of half the cop shops in the country?

how will this help the country, crime will increase all over the place, the resources are tight enough.

this mccarthy fella will be as popular as hilter

[MR KING KENNY]

;)there going to have trocaire boxes with pictures of paddys on them soon:rolleyes:;)

[Rover 609]

;)there going to have trocaire boxes with pictures of paddys on them soon:rolleyes:;)

Thats racist,whats the official line IK is taking on the oul racism as ive bingo tuesdays and thursdays and mass mondays saturdays and sundays:D

[MR KING KENNY]

Thats racist,whats the official line IK is taking on the oul racism as ive bingo tuesdays and thursdays and mass mondays saturdays and sundays:D
just think if that place pot came in, we would not be worried as much eh

[liamo3]

Dave cost of living gone down you must be kidding

Cup of coffee same price as last year
Gas dearer than it's ever been
Electricity dearer than it's ever been
Petrol around same price as the peak of the boom

I know there are some areas that have reduced stuff but not enough. Cafe java beside us still the same prices. Pub grub around the area still the same prices.

In comparison to other European cities we are still well up there with the price of living yet we are getting this worse than any other country I know apart from maybe Iceland

[byrnetred]

Dave cost of living gone down you must be kidding

Cup of coffee same price as last year
Gas dearer than it's ever been
Electricity dearer than it's ever been
Petrol around same price as the peak of the boom

I know there are some areas that have reduced stuff but not enough. Cafe java beside us still the same prices. Pub grub around the area still the same prices.

In comparison to other European cities we are still well up there with the price of living yet we are getting this worse than any other country I know apart from maybe Iceland

that what you get for working in D4, ;)

loads of deals in town when it comes to coffee and lunches, a load of the londis do €1 coffee now, can get a 2 course lunch for under a tenner

it was announced a few months ago that electricity prices were been reduced by 10%( if you move to bord gais you can add another 14% on top of that)

gas prices were also reduced by 12%

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0303/breaking46.htm

[Captain_Morgan]

that what you get for working in D4, ;)

loads of deals in town when it comes to coffee and lunches, a load of the londis do €1 coffee now, can get a 2 course lunch for under a tenner

it was announced a few months ago that electricity prices were been reduced by 10%( if you move to bord gais you can add another 14% on top of that)

gas prices were also reduced by 12%

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0303/breaking46.htm

If ye have time to trawl the streets looking for deals in some places that do deals thats fine, the shop across from my job hasnt dropped a cent off a cup of coffee or a sandwich,

On the social welfare cuts they should means test every single claimant, ive got an uncle signing on at the min and at the end of every week he has €5 left after paying bills and stuff( he is a single father with 2 kids who live with him, mother gone) a 10% cut will kill him, then ye have the dole heads who collect their childrens allowance and head to the boozer with it so to be fair keep some of the 17000 workers and assign them to social welfare means testing and those that can afford to have it cut will have it cut

[Niall]

[QUOTE=ElNino9;199437]If ye have time to trawl the streets looking for deals in some places that do deals thats fine, the shop across from my job hasnt dropped a cent off a cup of coffee or a sandwich,

It's not a case of trawling the streets these deals are all over town;)

[Daz]

ISome of my own suggestions:
1) Tax fathers of single parents - I know stacks of people living with their "partners" who arent supposed to be while their partners receive rent allowance.
.

Now that, to me, is ridiculous. Punish everyone for the crimes of a few.? It does head in to see 'single' mothers being given free houses and so on, while their partners are actually living there and earning good money. Some mates of mine did/do it and it does my head in to see while I;m paying a full mortgage and earning less then them. But to tax everyone is definately a no go.

[bryanod]

I wonder who will back down 1st. We have a bunch of pussys in government who back down when grannies start shouting.

2) Cut all funding to GAA,FAI and IRFU - they are big enough to look after themselves.

4) get rid of artists exemptions.


They will have to back down, because the begrudging c*nts in this country will take all they can, but give nothing back when its needed, we all knew this from our stance on europe, now its closer to home and still the same.

Funding to those is a great idea, they charge amazing amounts to watch their sports, they should be self-sufficient.

Artist's exemptions would add a lot, if any stayed, if they moved well not much loss really they have so many exemptions.


My favourite since the Budget, 24 hour drinking.

a)Less police needed as people not all out at the same time.

b) More happy taxi drivers

c) More employment

d) Leads to further disposable income and helping economy by multipling spending

e) More taxes

f) Licences have to be paid for, more revenue

g) Happier electorate for doing something right for once!!


Love them to stand their ground, and also really punish anyone commiting fraud on welfare, billions a year is pure fraud. But when is the first strike?

[Niall]

[QUOTE=bobby benitez;199317]4) get rid of artists exemptions.

Heard Brian O'Driscoll's misses the other day being asked about artists exemptions (she's started writing books) and she replied "no comment":mad:

[SUPERFAN]

Now that, to me, is ridiculous. Punish everyone for the crimes of a few.? It does head in to see 'single' mothers being given free houses and so on, while their partners are actually living there and earning good money. Some mates of mine did/do it and it does my head in to see while I;m paying a full mortgage and earning less then them. But to tax everyone is definately a no go.

i watched my father struggle all his working life to support a wife and 4 kids,him or me ma never went the pub,didn't smoke (me ma did but gave them up years ago) and only went on 1 family holiday to butlins in all those years.we honestly didn't have a pot to p1ss in growing up and i don't know how the fcuk he did it,but i have the utmost respect for him for what he did.
i have the same respect for anyone who's married now,has kids and is forking out for a mortgage every month but i honestly don't know how the fcuk they do it....

[byrnetred]

for anyone who doesnt thinki there shouldnt be cuts in social welfare give this a read

i dont have kids or a mortgage but if i did this would make me sick!!!

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/it-can-pay-to-stay-at-home---836442000-a-year-to-be-precise-1826386.html

SOCIAL welfare payments are currently so generous there is no incentive for some people to take up jobs, the Bord Snip report reveals.

This is particularly the case for couples with children.

A Dublin family with three children can get €42,000 a year when all the social welfare payments they are entitled to are combined, the report explains.

Tax experts said yesterday this family would need to get a job paying at least €55,000 to come out with the same amount of money after tax.

But the average industrial wage is €33,000 before tax, which means there is little incentive for the adults in a family like this to take up an average-income job -- if they could get one.


'Poverty trap'

Economists call the situation where you get more money on social welfare than you would entering the workforce the "poverty trap".

"The group [An Bord Snip] considers that it is important that the rates and benefits available under the social welfare system do not inhibit a return to work," the second volume of the report states.

Tax rises imposed in the two budgets in the past year have made it even less attractive for people to take up paid employment.

According to the report, a Dublin couple with three children, from the ages of four to 11, can avail of benefits worth €23,000 a year.

This is made up of €204.30 a week in Jobseeker's Benefit, or €10,623 a year. There is an additional weekly payment of €135.60 for a "qualifying adult" in respect of the spouse. There is also a payment of €78 a week for the three children, as the graphic on this page shows.

When a rent allowance of €232.15 a week is added in, the couple ends up with tax-free payments worth €35,500.

As they have three children, the couple in the Bord Snip Nua report would be entitled to total child benefit payments of €123.46 a week. This means the fictional family is taking in €803.09 a week, or €41,960.68 a year in state benefits.

The report also points out that a couple with no children receiving rent supplement could receive up to €27,000 a year.

Snip's authors say they are concerned that any further hiking in tax rates would make it even more unattractive to take up jobs, adding that social welfare rates should be cut by 5pc across the board.

If one of the adults in the example of the couple with three children were to take up a job, they would end up paying tax at 20pc up to €45,400. They would also have to pay 2pc in the income levy, 4pc in PRSI and 4pc of their gross income in the health levy, tax expert Cathal Maxwell of Paylesstax.ie said.

He added that this couple, with one income, would need to earn €55,000 a year to come out with €42,000 after tax.

[bobby benitez]

Now that, to me, is ridiculous. Punish everyone for the crimes of a few.? It does head in to see 'single' mothers being given free houses and so on, while their partners are actually living there and earning good money. Some mates of mine did/do it and it does my head in to see while I;m paying a full mortgage and earning less then them. But to tax everyone is definately a no go.

I am not talking about taxing everyone, but as you have said above there are many who take advantage. I will give you 1 good example of someone I know. Mr T has a child with Ms H and Ms H applies for rent allowance as a single mother. Ms H gets awarded €800 per month to live on her own with child in a 3 bed house. All above board so far except the father is a soldier, paid by the state and lives with mother and child. How hard can it be to establish that this particular father can afford to raise his child as much as you or I? I could give you 10 other examples and thats just 1 person, everyone knows someone at it.

We need to change the culture that you can just get someone up the duff and fu*k off and let the state finance the raising of the child.

Another couple points I want to make is about child benifit and dole. Child benifits - Using Lally's example above of the women claiming childrens allowance when she is already minted, why should she not be entitled to claim for it and someone who pays no taxes at all can claim it? The way I see it is the rich women has paid her dues already and is as entitled to claim it as much as the next person.
Dole - I dont agree with the automatic reduction in dole. I think a system where it reduces over time would be better, say 5% per year. That would be off some benifit to people signing on for the 1st time and punish those who havent worked in 10 years.

[Daz]

I am not talking about taxing everyone, but as you have said above there are many who take advantage. .

Well I agree with you on that. I read it as though you meant tax ALL single fathers.

[MrsPepe]

I am not talking about taxing everyone, but as you have said above there are many who take advantage. I will give you 1 good example of someone I know. Mr T has a child with Ms H and Ms H applies for rent allowance as a single mother. Ms H gets awarded €800 per month to live on her own with child in a 3 bed house. All above board so far except the father is a soldier, paid by the state and lives with mother and child. How hard can it be to establish that this particular father can afford to raise his child as much as you or I? I could give you 10 other examples and thats just 1 person, everyone knows someone at it.

We need to change the culture that you can just get someone up the duff and fu*k off and let the state finance the raising of the child.

Another couple points I want to make is about child benifit and dole. Child benifits - Using Lally's example above of the women claiming childrens allowance when she is already minted, why should she not be entitled to claim for it and someone who pays no taxes at all can claim it? The way I see it is the rich women has paid her dues already and is as entitled to claim it as much as the next person.
Dole - I dont agree with the automatic reduction in dole. I think a system where it reduces over time would be better, say 5% per year. That would be off some benifit to people signing on for the 1st time and punish those who havent worked in 10 years.


Yes she has paid her dues fair play to her, I was using her as an example for these new recommendations , should people be means tested for CB, rather then making the same deductions across the board, which may impact some people severely and some not at all?

[SUPERFAN]

I am not talking about taxing everyone, but as you have said above there are many who take advantage. I will give you 1 good example of someone I know. Mr T has a child with Ms H and Ms H applies for rent allowance as a single mother. Ms H gets awarded €800 per month to live on her own with child in a 3 bed house. All above board so far except the father is a soldier, paid by the state and lives with mother and child. How hard can it be to establish that this particular father can afford to raise his child as much as you or I? I could give you 10 other examples and thats just 1 person, everyone knows someone at it.

We need to change the culture that you can just get someone up the duff and fu*k off and let the state finance the raising of the child.


as far as i know all Ms H gets off the state towards the raising of the child is 23 euro a week,i could be wrong but i think that's right.hardly bank breaking stuff,you'd probably get a box of nappies for that.
any other weekly payment she gets she would get it anyway if she's not working.granted she's getting rent alowance but i wouldn't call that financing the raising of the child.under the constitution every child is entitled to a roof over their head and if the council can't house her her only option is to go down the rent allowance route.
obviously she also gets childrens allowance every month but every family in the state is entitled to that.and she would be entitled to the medical card for her and her child but you can't put a value on that cos it depends on how often it's being used.
Mr H shouldn't be living there but is,i'd guarantee you he's contributing a hefty wedge of his wages towards the raising of his child,either officially or unofficially...

[Pimboli]

Well Ive seen some blaming the non-nationals for some of our ills but that is the governments problem not the asylum seekers if the government lets them in then they are entitled to everything they get regardless of it probably being morally wrong that it appears non nationals are looked after better than the Irish.

Isnt it the case that someone who is granted asylum here they are entitled to a child allowance for every child they have even the ones they dont bring to Ireland, a total joke but if the loophole is there it will be exploited.

Not all foreign nationals are lazy either the Polish take the crappiest jobs going are paid less but work harder, yet its the Irish tossers that point the finger at them for 'robbing our jobs' that they think they are too good to do anyway.

And as byrnetred post proves cuts in social welfare are long over due when you can sit at home scratching your hole and churning out babies and earn more than people who slog their way working through the week for their few euro.

As for the job losses, I read that the pensions most of these are on the average Joe would have to put up to 80% of their salary into a fund to match it and the Government throw it in as a perk for being a public sector employee, how much is that costing us? They have had a cozy ride up until recently, not that Im knocking the hard working public sector people but there are a lot in the public arena that are there as its a cushy number.

If the government decides to proceed with these recommendations then they have to see it through to the end, there is no point doing it, have a load of strikes and back down and its back to square one on top of whatever the strikes cost the country. The country right now is fcuked and there is no way out of it without drastic measures even if the country grinds to a hault during the strikes it has to be done and seen through as there are millions effected by this not just the 17000 odd Public Sector workers.

[bobby benitez]

as far as i know all Ms H gets off the state towards the raising of the child is 23 euro a week,i could be wrong but i think that's right.hardly bank breaking stuff,you'd probably get a box of nappies for that.
any other weekly payment she gets she would get it anyway if she's not working.granted she's getting rent alowance but i wouldn't call that financing the raising of the child.under the constitution every child is entitled to a roof over their head and if the council can't house her her only option is to go down the rent allowance route.
obviously she also gets childrens allowance every month but every family in the state is entitled to that.and she would be entitled to the medical card for her and her child but you can't put a value on that cos it depends on how often it's being used.
Mr H shouldn't be living there but is,i'd guarantee you he's contributing a hefty wedge of his wages towards the raising of his child,either officially or unofficially...

Sorry superfan I should have been a little clearer about Mr T. Himself and the girlfriend have been going out for years and still are. They both got this house but off course the offical line is he is not around, so he is basically getting €800 rent money when he can afford to rent/buy as much as the next man. Its pure abuse of the system and its going on everywhere. Obvisously life would be a whole lot tighter if he had to pay the rent himself but thats tough shit really.

[SUPERFAN]

Sorry superfan I should have been a little clearer about Mr T. Himself and the girlfriend have been going out for years and still are. They both got this house but off course the offical line is he is not around, so he is basically getting €800 rent money when he can afford to rent/buy as much as the next man. Its pure abuse of the system and its going on everywhere. Obvisously life would be a whole lot tighter if he had to pay the rent himself but thats tough shit really.

you see it as abuse of the system,i see it as taking advantage of the situation mate,pure and simple.yeah it's going on everywhere and it's been going on for years,from the top to the bottom of society.what about TD's/MEP's claiming for all their "expenses"?
the govt know and have known for years what is going on and have turned a blind eye to it.obviously if they scrapped rent allowance tomorrow people like Mr T would have to stump up the rent for the house he and his family are living in out of his own pocket and life would be a whole lot tougher but can you honestly see that happening?

[Anfield Old Boys]

Well Ive seen some blaming the non-nationals for some of our ills but that is the governments problem not the asylum seekers if the government lets them in then they are entitled to everything they get regardless of it probably being morally wrong that it appears non nationals are looked after better than the Irish.

Not all foreign nationals are lazy either the Polish take the crappiest jobs going are paid less but work harder, yet its the Irish tossers that point the finger at them for 'robbing our jobs' that they think they are too good to do anyway.

I think we need to draw a distinction between non nationals and asylum seeks/economic migrants and not tar them all as one. Those who are in the EU are perfectly entitled to be here as we are entitled to live and work in their countries. If we go there we can access their services as they access ours.

[byrnetred]

you see it as abuse of the system,i see it as taking advantage of the situation mate,pure and simple.yeah it's going on everywhere and it's been going on for years,from the top to the bottom of society.what about TD's/MEP's claiming for all their "expenses"?
the govt know and have known for years what is going on and have turned a blind eye to it.obviously if they scrapped rent allowance tomorrow people like Mr T would have to stump up the rent for the house he and his family are living in out of his own pocket and life would be a whole lot tougher but can you honestly see that happening?those who defraud the state by claiming benefits that they are not entitled to should be forced to pay it back if caught

[General]

An Bord Snip Nua's terms of reference meant they could not look at Public Sector pay rates. Our average pay for a public sector worker is over €49000. We have to reduce this figure as it's way over the top in comparison to the private sector. This does not even consider the guaranteed pensions involved!!

http://ronanlyons.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/wages-graph.png

[byrnetred]

I think we need to draw a distinction between non nationals and asylum seeks/economic migrants and not tar them all as one. Those who are in the EU are perfectly entitled to be here as we are entitled to live and work in their countries. If we go there we can access their services as they access ours.
this is true, sometimes people get confused by them all

with regard to asylum seekers why would someone fly or travel 10000miles through 20 different countries to come to ireland??

well it aint for the sunshine

heard this fact on the radio yesterday

if a high court judge and a private sector worker both earn €250k a year, the private sector worker would have to contribut 90% of their salary to get the same pension as the high court judge

[Anfield Old Boys]

An Bord Snip Nua's terms of reference meant they could not look at Public Sector pay rates. Our average pay for a public sector worker is over €49000. We have to reduce this figure as it's way over the top in comparison to the private sector. This does not even consider the guaranteed pensions involved!!

By any chance, did those figures include the pension levy put on PS workers?

[Anfield Old Boys]

this is true, sometimes people get confused by them all

We must also remember that a lot of other European workers came here during the boom to fill the jobs we couldn't fill, shops, restaurants, bars, McDonalds etc.

[SUPERFAN]

those who defraud the state by claiming benefits that they are not entitled to should be forced to pay it back if caught

i agree but in the case that bobbybenitez used of Mr and Ms t she is not defrauding anyone,she is entitled to everything she is claiming and would get it whether or not Mr t is/was living with her.and mr t isn't defrauding anyone either,he works for every penny he gets..
fair enough,he shouldn't be living in the house but as i said in a previous post it's very hard to prove if someone is living in a particular house.he can easily say he's just coming to visit his child..

[Rover 609]

it's very hard to prove if someone is living in a particular house.he can easily say he's just coming to visit his child..

Get the fraud squad to check and see is there any of his inside trunks in the chest of drawers in the bedroom.:cool::D

[General]

By any chance, did those figures include the pension levy put on PS workers?

Those figures were gross. The pension levy is basically a small contribution asked of public sector workers towards their generous and guaranteed pensions.

[SUPERFAN]

Those figures were gross. The pension levy is basically a small contribution asked of public sector workers towards their generous and guaranteed pensions.

the pension was always generous and guaranteed,it amazes me that people are only picking holes in it now.when times were good no one batted an eyelid.
public sectoor jobs at every level of the scale were there for people to apply for when they left school,it's a bit rich that peple should throw them jobs back in people's faces now...

[DalglishN]

Get the fraud squad to check and see is there any of his inside trunks in the chest of drawers in the bedroom.:cool::D

hehe shamone (comment made with out reading any previous posts or inflicting harm on the quoted indiividuals or the deceased)shamone again

[Anfield Old Boys]

The pension levy is basically a small contribution asked of public sector workers towards their generous and guaranteed pensions.

Since when is 8% a small contribution!

[Anfield Old Boys]

the pension was always generous and guaranteed,it amazes me that people are only picking holes in it now.when times were good no one batted an eyelid.
public sectoor jobs at every level of the scale were there for people to apply for when they left school,it's a bit rich that peple should throw them jobs back in people's faces now...

People were happy to sit there and vote for FF for the last three elections, voting for the party that made the very same decisions that got us into this mess. For a number of years the public and civil service could not get people to work for it, and as you say those jobs were open to everybody. But people went off to higher paid jobs in the private sector not that I mind that or begrudge them their choice but the very same people are now jumping all over the PS now.

[Captain_Morgan]

i agree but in the case that bobbybenitez used of Mr and Ms t she is not defrauding anyone,she is entitled to everything she is claiming and would get it whether or not Mr t is/was living with her.and mr t isn't defrauding anyone either,he works for every penny he gets..
fair enough,he shouldn't be living in the house but as i said in a previous post it's very hard to prove if someone is living in a particular house.he can easily say he's just coming to visit his child..


Dont agree here at all

Basically he was saying if the woman has a child and then claims she is a single mother she is entitled to rent allowance/council house, but she is in fact living with the father of the child unknown to the council, this is FRAUD im afraid,

Im not disputing the father works for every penny he gets but why then should he not contribute to the accomodation costs why should the council foot the bill ????

This goes on everywhere and it does my head in, im married and have a child and a hefty mortgage and every month we have to watch the pennies it seems you get punished in this country for owning a house and getting married.

[serpheus]

Dont agree here at all

Basically he was saying if the woman has a child and then claims she is a single mother she is entitled to rent allowance/council house, but she is in fact living with the father of the child unknown to the council, this is FRAUD im afraid,

Im not disputing the father works for every penny he gets but why then should he not contribute to the accomodation costs why should the council foot the bill ????

This goes on everywhere and it does my head in, im married and have a child and a hefty mortgage and every month we have to watch the pennies it seems you get punished in this country for owning a house and getting married.
I agree, don't forget that there is an awful lot of genuine people on housing lists that are been passed over for young ones who are popping out kids like theres no tomorrow.

[D-Red]

Basically he was saying if the woman has a child and then claims she is a single mother she is entitled to rent allowance/council house, but she is in fact living with the father of the child unknown to the council, this is FRAUD im afraid,


Agreed. I was thinking the same myself. Whether you like the law or not isn't really relevant, of course its Fraud. Open-shut case.

[Captain_Morgan]

Agreed. I was thinking the same myself. Whether you like the law or not isn't really relevant, of course its Fraud. Open-shut case.

And i agree with davy if your caught doing it you should be made pay it back

[SUPERFAN]

Dont agree here at all

Basically he was saying if the woman has a child and then claims she is a single mother she is entitled to rent allowance/council house, but she is in fact living with the father of the child unknown to the council, this is FRAUD im afraid,

Im not disputing the father works for every penny he gets but why then should he not contribute to the accomodation costs why should the council foot the bill ????

This goes on everywhere and it does my head in, im married and have a child and a hefty mortgage and every month we have to watch the pennies it seems you get punished in this country for owning a house and getting married.

unfortunately,you do get punished in this country for getting married,that's why i have no intention of ever doing it..
as for the father contributing to the accomodation costs,maybe he should but he knows he doen't have to and will probably never have to.
people do whatever they can to get by,be it using a dodgybox,buying the latest movies on dvd at the door/in their local market,buying cheap foreign smokes,buying fake jerseys,going up the north to do their shopping,using entropay..:D
a lot of things out there could be technically classed as fraud...

[byrnetred]

Since when is 8% a small contribution!
if i earned the same money as a guard i would have to contribute 30% of my slaary to get the same pension

so yes 7.5% is small

[Anfield Old Boys]

if i earned the same money as a guard i would have to contribute 30% of my slaary to get the same pension

Perhaps its time you joined up so? I'd say you would look good in blue :)

[byrnetred]

Perhaps its time you joined up so? I'd say you would look good in blue :)

a really good mate of mine just got based in coolock so no thank you

although a better mate of mine just got a permanent role as teacher in a south side schoole, wouldn mine his 20 hour week and his 4 months holidays and his 150% tax free pay sum and his 60 percent salary when he retires at 55...and his mistery management subsidary that he has been getting

[DalglishN]

Email doing the rounds solve a lot of problems
Sometimes the easiest solution is the best!!

The solution to the economic crisis!


Dear Mr. Cowen

Please find below my suggestion for fixing Irelands economy.

Instead of giving Seven Billion Euro's to Anglo Irish Bank who will
squander the money on lavish parties and unearned bonuses, use the
following plan.

You can call it the Republican Retirement Plan:

There are about 1 million people over 50 in the work force. Pay them 7
million Euro apiece severance for early retirement with the following
stipulations:

1) They MUST retire. One million job openings - Unemployment fixed

2) They MUST= buy a new car. One million cars ordered - Auto Industry fixed

3) They MUST either buy a house or pay off their mortgage - Housing Crisis
fixed

4) They MUST send their kids to school/college/university - Crime rate
fixed

5) They MUST buy 100 Euro of alcohol/tobacco a week .....and there's your
money back in duty/tax etc

It can't get any easier than that!

P.S. If more money is needed, have all members of government pay back their
falsely claimed expenses and allowances

If you think this would work, please forward to everyone you know. If not,
please disregard.;)

[serpheus]

Email doing the rounds solve a lot of problems
Sometimes the easiest solution is the best!!

The solution to the economic crisis!


Dear Mr. Cowen

Please find below my suggestion for fixing Irelands economy.

Instead of giving Seven Billion Euro's to Anglo Irish Bank who will
squander the money on lavish parties and unearned bonuses, use the
following plan.

You can call it the Republican Retirement Plan:

There are about 1 million people over 50 in the work force. Pay them 7
million Euro apiece severance for early retirement with the following
stipulations:

1) They MUST retire. One million job openings - Unemployment fixed

2) They MUST= buy a new car. One million cars ordered - Auto Industry fixed

3) They MUST either buy a house or pay off their mortgage - Housing Crisis
fixed

4) They MUST send their kids to school/college/university - Crime rate
fixed

5) They MUST buy 100 Euro of alcohol/tobacco a week .....and there's your
money back in duty/tax etc

It can't get any easier than that!

P.S. If more money is needed, have all members of government pay back their
falsely claimed expenses and allowances

If you think this would work, please forward to everyone you know. If not,
please disregard.;)

Already posted by someone mate, the maths don't add up by the way.

[DalglishN]

:Dhttp://3.bp.blogspot.com/_f98opUNuVXc/SIwoa9ox4rI/AAAAAAAABYw/kEE06B9x088/s400/Carol+Vorderman.jpg
thanks Carol;)

[Captain_Morgan]

Email doing the rounds solve a lot of problems
Sometimes the easiest solution is the best!!

The solution to the economic crisis!


Dear Mr. Cowen

Please find below my suggestion for fixing Irelands economy.

Instead of giving Seven Billion Euro's to Anglo Irish Bank who will
squander the money on lavish parties and unearned bonuses, use the
following plan.

You can call it the Republican Retirement Plan:

There are about 1 million people over 50 in the work force. Pay them 7
million Euro apiece severance for early retirement with the following
stipulations:

1) They MUST retire. One million job openings - Unemployment fixed

2) They MUST= buy a new car. One million cars ordered - Auto Industry fixed

3) They MUST either buy a house or pay off their mortgage - Housing Crisis
fixed

4) They MUST send their kids to school/college/university - Crime rate
fixed

5) They MUST buy 100 Euro of alcohol/tobacco a week .....and there's your
money back in duty/tax etc

It can't get any easier than that!

P.S. If more money is needed, have all members of government pay back their
falsely claimed expenses and allowances

If you think this would work, please forward to everyone you know. If not,
please disregard.;)

Mate your no economist

7bn divided by 1m works out at 7k per person

[Garrett]

Hi

I think there's a difference between the Irish & American definition of what constitutes a Billion, think the American's reckon it's a million times a million, whereas we consider it a thousand times a million ...

What absolutely amazes me about the Bord Snip report is how obvious some of these proposed cuts are, how easy they would be to implement without doing any damage of significance to the population and yet our useless TDs won't bloomin' implement even one of them .. stupid fools, every day they don't act, our problem becomes worse !

[DalglishN]

Mate your no economist

7bn divided by 1m works out at 7k per person

Dead right ElNino or either was the guy who initially wrote the email or the guy who sent it to me. One thing about the recession is people have more time on there hands to come up with these trivial things and be fickle about the content of piss take emails. Thankfully it was'nt Brian lenihan who sent it to me although I better check!:D

[DalglishN]

Hi

I think there's a difference between the Irish & American definition of what constitutes a Billion, think the American's reckon it's a million times a million, whereas we consider it a thousand times a million ...

What absolutely amazes me about the Bord Snip report is how obvious some of these proposed cuts are, how easy they would be to implement without doing any damage of significance to the population and yet our useless TDs won't bloomin' implement even one of them .. stupid fools, every day they don't act, our problem becomes worse !

Arent they on holidays now while the country is in turmoil typical Irish solution. Sure we'll go away on holidays now and it might have gone away when we get back.

[Anfield Old Boys]

Arent they on holidays now while the country is in turmoil typical Irish solution. Sure we'll go away on holidays now and it might have gone away when we get back.

IMHO it was never a runner for politicans to implement the An Bord Snip report until after Lisbon vote....once that is over its open season.....

[DalglishN]

IMHO it was never a runner for politicans to implement the An Bord Snip report until after Lisbon vote....once that is over its open season.....

Yeah makes sense get the yes vote sorted and then inflict An bord Snip then another budget all before Christmas :rolleyes::mad: I'm trying not to think that far ahead to be honest.

[Garrett]

Arent they on holidays now while the country is in turmoil typical Irish solution. Sure we'll go away on holidays now and it might have gone away when we get back.


Don't get me started .... we've far too many of them too, axe half of them and there'd be more done, for less dosh !

[NiallD]

Don't get me started .... we've far too many of them too, axe half of them and there'd be more done, for less dosh !

Get rid of the 60 odd members of the Seanad for a start. Never had and definitely now has no place in modern ireland. Serves zero purpose as a supposed advisory body. The taoiseach member picks in the senate ensure his party has majority so what the fcuk are they there for? Why they felt the need to copy an upper house, House of Lords type in a republic escapes me. At least the british system is a tradition. Pointless.

[Anfield Old Boys]

Get rid of the 60 odd members of the Seanad for a start. Never had and definitely now has no place in modern ireland. Serves zero purpose as a supposed advisory body. The taoiseach member picks in the senate ensure his party has majority so what the fcuk are they there for? Why they felt the need to copy an upper house, House of Lords type in a republic escapes me. At least the british system is a tradition. Pointless.


Would agree that its a clearing house for failed or aspiring TD's although some exceptions like Norris, O'Tools and Shane Ross occassionily liven the place up. They should let everybody be able to vote for the places in it or abolish it..

[Anfield Old Boys]

Don't get me started .... we've far too many of them too, axe half of them and there'd be more done, for less dosh !

+1