Electricians strike

[callyno3]

Anyone here have pickets on the gate where they work?
The second day of the strike today.

The electricians were promised a 11% rise (which I think the ESB got)and but the employers are looking for 10% drop in wages.
You gotta feel for the electricians but I can't see them getting too much support for an 11% raise in these times with so many people out of work.

But maybe alot of other unions will roll in behind them.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0707/electricians.html

[sean]

From my understanding this 11% pay increase was agreed 2 years ago and is still outstanding hence the strike - I agree though, hard to see them getting a whole pile of sympathy from the general public in these times.

I know an apprentice electrician working out in Landsdowne Road who obviously can't cross the picket line. Thing is her employer obviously won't be paying her and cos she's an apprentice she'll be getting nothing off the union. Tough going seeing as she can barely live on the money she was earning before the strike kicked in.

[serpheus]

i have no sympathy for them at all

[Gerry]

i have no sympathy for them at all

very harsh comment - I actually wonderhow much do you know about the reasons they are srtiking ???

I am not involved in this field of work but admit i think alot of what they are fightinh for is spor on

The media is patraying this as just been about a pay rise issue - as is ee it it is about alot more issues - maybe someone in the trade will explain better !

its far more than that - and anyone involved will tell you all the reasons

Here are some of the gripes i know the electricians have and rightly so in my opinion !

1- The contractors are trying to reduce the apprentices rate of pay
2- 2yr apprentice reduce wage by 40%
4th year apprentice reduce wages by 70% (70% how the fcul can that be right)

This is a dangerous situation as it will dis courage any apprentice from taking up the trade if the conditions are so poor - so where do the next generation of tradesmen come from ??

3- They want to allow un qualified people to do electricians work as long as the sparks signs off on it - this is madness and dangerous in my opinion as it will flood the trade with people not skilled to do the job

4- people using mobile phones will be deducted 15 minutes wages - this is very harsh considering there could be a valid reason for a call ie emergencey or family problem, kids schools ect

there are loads more very valid issues as im sure there are arguments fo both sides - but anyone who thinks its all about the pay rise or pay freezw is way off the mark in my opinion

[serpheus]

very harsh comment - I actually wonderhow much do you know about the reasons they are srtiking ???

I am not involved in this field of work but admit i think alot of what they are fightinh for is spor on

The media is patraying this as just been about a pay rise issue - as is ee it it is about alot more issues - maybe someone in the trade will explain better !

its far more than that - and anyone involved will tell you all the reasons

Here are some of the gripes i know the electricians have and rightly so in my opinion !

1- The contractors are trying to reduce the apprentices rate of pay
2- 2yr apprentice reduce wage by 40%
4th year apprentice reduce wages by 70% (70% how the fcul can that be right)

This is a dangerous situation as it will dis courage any apprentice from taking up the trade if the conditions are so poor - so where do the next generation of tradesmen come from ??

3- They want to allow un qualified people to do electricians work as long as the sparks signs off on it - this is madness and dangerous in my opinion as it will flood the trade with people not skilled to do the job

4- people using mobile phones will be deducted 15 minutes wages - this is very harsh considering there could be a valid reason for a call ie emergencey or family problem, kids schools ect

there are loads more very valid issues as im sure there are arguments fo both sides - but anyone who thinks its all about the pay rise or pay freezw is way off the mark in my opinion
I'll keep all that in mind when im queing up for an hour next week to sign on.

[sean]

The media is patraying this as just been about a pay rise issue

Thats the problem though isn't it Gerry. If the media are only letting on this is a story about a pay rise then there isn't a hope the sparkies will get the public on their side. I'm actually shocked by some of the things you've mentioned - apprentice wage cuts, punishment for use of mobiles, allowing unqualified people do the work - their union really should get their act together and get this out into the public domain sooner rather than later.

[Gerry]

I'll keep all that in mind when im queing up for an hour next week to sign on.

I am just stating that there are alot more reasons for it than are been put across in the press, im sorry you are out of work mate but it is nothing to do with the electricians, if people have valid reasons for a strike i dont see how people can have a go, they are trying to protect thier trade and its future!

I fail to see how anyone can think massively cutting an apprentices wages will be a good thing ?? or should be tolerated

I remember serving my time in my trade and i would not have been able to manage with a salart reduction of up to 70%

Also doing a nixer or even any electrical work even in a friends house would be a disilpnary offence under the new rules !

[Gerry]

Thats the problem though isn't it Gerry. If the media are only letting on this is a story about a pay rise then there isn't a hope the sparkies will get the public on their side. I'm actually shocked by some of the things you've mentioned - apprentice wage cuts, punishment for use of mobiles, allowing unqualified people do the work - their union really should get their act together and get this out into the public domain sooner rather than later.

Was shocked myself sean - i think they have realised now that they have speak up over thier reasons , i believe they are to start putting info in the papers !

[serpheus]

The only thing that bothers me is the pay rise issue & the mobile phone issue is dead right imo, a lot of people are taking the piss with their mobiles in work & i wasn't allowed have mine on me at all in my last job. Just give your bosses number to your next of kin if their is an emergency.

[Gerry]

The only thing that bothers me is the pay rise issue & the mobile phone issue is dead right imo, a lot of people are taking the piss with their mobiles in work & i wasn't allowed have mine on me at all in my last job. Just give your bosses number to your next of kin if their is an emergency.

Thats fair enough mate- everyone is entitled to thier opinion, but as i said its about more than a pay rise so its wronng to think its just about that , i dont know all the facts (but some of the ones i have stated are plainly not right and i dont blame them for striking ) i think when people do not know all the facts they should not condem people for fighting for thier future of them and thier colleagues !

I know alot of people will look badlt on them when so many are out of work but if people looked at some of the issues they might think slightly different!

[liverbird!!]

Strange that they took workers from Cadburys and placed them on pickets at Guinness and visa versa.

Didnt think they could do that, but they did!

[bryanod]

I really don't think people think strikes through during recessions, look at the knock on effect this has had already, people put on protective notice all over the place.

How in the love of god, when there is far too many tradesmen around for the work out there at the moment, can going on strike and disrupting on-going works, help keep jobs in the area?

Simply sounds like they are actively discouraging more apprentices, is there far too many already, especially when there is very unlikely to be any recurrance of the building boom we have had for a very long time.

As for seeking a wage increase, come on!!!! even if it was agreed, look at the economy as a whole, its ridiculous to suggest you should receive it now.

[byrnetred]

ive heard the spokesman for the TEEU on the radio 3 times over the last week on the same station and not once did he mention any of what gerry has pointed out above, he had his chance to put it out into the public domain and he didnt

2 years ago an agreement was put in place that they would get a 11% pay increase when everything was rosey and we were building 90,000 houses a year, now the shit has hit the fan and its projected that 10,000 houses will be built next year,

they should just take it on the chin and contra off the 10% pay cut against the 11% pay increase because most of them will be out of jobs come next year(most of the large high profile projects are due for completion next year) and they arnt hepling future projects been feasible with them wanting a 11% pay increase...

[liverbird!!]

ive heard the spokesman for the TEEU on the radio 3 times over the last week on the same station and not once did he mention any of what gerry has pointed out above, he had his chance to put it out into the public domain and he didnt

2 years ago an agreement was put in place that they would get a 11% pay increase when everything was rosey and we were building 90,000 houses a year, now the shit has hit the fan and its projected that 10,000 houses will be built next year,

they should just take it on the chin and contra off the 10% pay cut against the 11% pay increase because most of them will be out of jobs come next year(most of the large high profile projects are due for completion next year) and they arnt hepling future projects been feasible with them wanting a 11% pay increase...


+1

Think thats what will happen

[fermoyred80]

Was watching that current affairs program on TV3 last and they were complaining that if the rates dont change it will not help to people on the dole. Now I am a spark but have been off the tools and in college studying Electrical Engineering but do not want to have the rates changed.

This trade is a highly skilled and involve an awful lot more than what the person on the street thinks. People complain "ah ya you can do nixers" , yes I can but after I do a full days work and at times have to work till 12 at night and then up at 6 for another days work. The union agreed a few years back of a pay rise and it was never seen by the worker yet the contractors pocketed this, and now they want to cut more money.

Fair enough times are tough but when the workers are owed 10% for two years of work that is already done and paid for and in the contractors bank account, they are entitled to it. Give it to them and then talk about a pay cut. This is why the country, the big shots trying to ride the workers as usual.

[bobby benitez]

In the current economic climate I feel they're out of line. Everyone is entitled to strike but to picket secondary factories like Cadbury and Guinness is out of order. They are currently paid a good wage and are jeopardising peoples jobs who earn far less than them. Fair enough to picket construction sites etc but don’t take it out are the minimum wage factory workers elsewhere.

From what I've heard from both sides, this is going to take an awful long time to resolve ( I wonder have the unions timed this to coincide with the government holidays) expect a long summer with plenty of redundancies.

[fermoyred80]

In the current economic climate I feel they're out of line. Everyone is entitled to strike but to picket secondary factories like Cadbury and Guinness is out of order. They are currently paid a good wage and are jeopardising peoples jobs who earn far less than them. Fair enough to picket construction sites etc but don’t take it out are the minimum wage factory workers elsewhere.

From what I've heard from both sides, this is going to take an awful long time to resolve ( I wonder have the unions timed this to coincide with the government holidays) expect a long summer with plenty of redundancies.

The average Electricians wage isnt much above the average industrial wage and the guys who work in Cadburys and Guinness have every right to strike outside their places of work if conditions and unions state.

[Gerry]

two sides to all stories and all that some info in here for people that are listening to the media and think this is just about a "PAY RISE"

http://www.teeu.ie/enjic_downloads/call_to_action.pdf

[Dub13]

I support the electricians,if they don't get there increase they will have been hit with a double blow 1) not getting the agreed increase and 2) taken a 10% cut.You can be sure of one thing the company's factored in the increase when they put tenders in.

Just because there is a recession on does not give company's a right to use that to attack workers rights & entitlement's.

[bobby benitez]

The average Electricians wage isnt much above the average industrial wage and the guys who work in Cadburys and Guinness have every right to strike outside their places of work if conditions and unions state.

They get just over €21 per hour, so they must take home just short of a grand a week. My point is and was do they have the right to risk jobs of people earning half that amount that have nothing to do with this. As I stated earlier I have no problem with them striking at construction sites etc but not at factories that will use it as an excuse, valid or not to cut jobs of completely innocent workers.

[callyno3]

two sides to all stories

Thats for sure!! Lets hope the two sides sit down soon and thrash out some sort of a deal and put an end to the strike.

[fermoyred80]

They get just over €21 per hour, so they must take home just short of a grand a week. My point is and was do they have the right to risk jobs of people earning half that amount that have nothing to do with this. As I stated earlier I have no problem with them striking at construction sites etc but not at factories that will use it as an excuse, valid or not to cut jobs of completely innocent workers.

what about maintenance electricians who work in these factories full time

21 x 38 = 798 (I may be wrong but before tax and any tools etc are bought)

for a skilled trade where 4 years on shite money is spent training

[bobby benitez]

what about maintenance electricians who work in these factories full time

21 x 38 = 798 (I may be wrong but before tax and any tools etc are bought)

for a skilled trade where 4 years on shite money is spent training

Thats fair enough but they also get paid from the moment they leave their front door until they return home and get travel expenses etc.

They are fighting for an extra €1 per hour and in doing so risking the jobs of those currently getting around €9 or €10 per hour. Uncalled for IMO and I dont get the "why now" bit either in the TEEU download. Very vague.

[F@ces]

Some things they wish changed are certainly valid, but as long as it includes striking for a pay rise (whether this is wholly the reason or not), people will not take their side.

In the private sector people are having pay-freezes and bonuses stopped. Others are taking pay cuts, and more losing their jobs entirely. Like it or not, nearly EVERYONE is being hit; the fact is there IS a recession and companies feel if they don't cut costs they will fold. If the sparks want to be taken seriously then just accept what they currently earn, and sure, fight for other issues that need resolving (to do with conditions etc). After the recession everyone (in the public and private sector) can state their cases to their employers for then getting wage increases.

The private sector can't just decide to lay up their tools and go on strike either. Well, they can, but they'd probably just get fired. The reality is there are a lot of unemployed people who would kill for a job like theirs right now.

I don't like the way things are, I hate not earning as much as I believe I should be and being taxed to the hilt. But everyone is in the same boat, and a lot much worse. At the moment anyway, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

[fermoyred80]

Thats fair enough but they also get paid from the moment they leave their front door until they return home and get travel expenses etc.

They are fighting for an extra €1 per hour and in doing so risking the jobs of those currently getting around €9 or €10 per hour. Uncalled for IMO and I dont get the "why now" bit either in the TEEU download. Very vague.

Now you changed your agrument when I say they aint making close to a grand as ya stated. Not every Electrician GETS THIS TRAVEL and with most companies it is long gone. What they used get was lodge money where they get extra money wen 26 miles from the companies base. I dont know what you work at but if you were told travel an hour or two a day from your companies base to do more work im sure you would want payment. Anyhow since the turn down in work the lodge money is gone

[fermoyred80]

Some things they wish changed are certainly valid, but as long as it includes striking for a pay rise (whether this is wholly the reason or not), people will not take their side.

In the private sector people are having pay-freezes and bonuses stopped. Others are taking pay cuts, and more losing their jobs entirely. Like it or not, nearly EVERYONE is being hit; the fact is there IS a recession and companies feel if they don't cut costs they will fold. If the sparks want to be taken seriously then just accept what they currently earn, and sure, fight for other issues that need resolving (to do with conditions etc). After the recession everyone (in the public and private sector) can state their cases to their employers for then getting wage increases.

The private sector can't just decide to lay up their tools and go on strike either. Well, they can, but they'd probably just get fired. The reality is there are a lot of unemployed people who would kill for a job like theirs right now.

I don't like the way things are, I hate not earning as much as I believe I should be and being taxed to the hilt. But everyone is in the same boat, and a lot much worse. At the moment anyway, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

Good points there and im sure the sparks would be happy to keep there rate at wat it is now. That with the pay rise and pay cut canceling each other out.

I know there is people out of work, Im one myself but not many can do a sparks or any trademans job. Would you get someone into your house who isnt qualified to put a new roof on or fix your plumbing.


,

[dking]

I don't like the way things are, I hate not earning as much as I believe I should be and being taxed to the hilt. But everyone is in the same boat, and a lot much worse.

True.

[bobby benitez]

Now you changed your agrument when I say they aint making close to a grand as ya stated. Not every Electrician GETS THIS TRAVEL and with most companies it is long gone. What they used get was lodge money where they get extra money wen 26 miles from the companies base. I dont know what you work at but if you were told travel an hour or two a day from your companies base to do more work im sure you would want payment. Anyhow since the turn down in work the lodge money is gone


I haven’t changed my argument. I started the post by saying fair enough. If I had included a comma as intended maybe then you would've realised I accepted they earn 800 as opposed to 1000euro altough that wont make too much difference to those on the dole or on minimum wage.

My argument remains the same though - they are fighting for an extra €40 per week and jeopardising other peoples livelihoods in the process who earn far less. Would you agree with that comment?

PS: I have stated in all my previous posts that I have no problem with them striking on construction sites.

[fermoyred80]

I haven’t changed my argument. I started the post by saying fair enough. If I had included a comma as intended maybe then you would've realised I accepted they earn 800 as opposed to 1000euro altough that wont make too much difference to those on the dole or on minimum wage.

My argument remains the same though - they are fighting for an extra €40 per week and jeopardising other peoples livelihoods in the process who earn far less. Would you agree with that comment?

PS: I have stated in all my previous posts that I have no problem with them striking on construction sites.

It think its more the fact that they wont be walked over more than the €40. They have been owed a pay rise since 2006 im sure and the contractors since then have been charging at that rate and pocketing the differences. Its money that is owed to them. I agree they should not be looking for the pay rise and are only doing so because the contractors are looking to take 10% off the 2006 rate thats 20% from the Union rate for 2009.

Just a out of curiosity what an Electrician makes in a week how does that effect someone on the dole or on the min wage? These people had the chance to get a trade. I myself am signing on at the moment.

[F@ces]

Good points there and im sure the sparks would be happy to keep there rate at wat it is now. That with the pay rise and pay cut canceling each other out.

I know there is people out of work, Im one myself but not many can do a sparks or any trademans job. Would you get someone into your house who isnt qualified to put a new roof on or fix your plumbing.

Of course, sorry, wasn't implying the normal layman can do the job of an electrician; it's a highly skilled profession. My post was just directed towards the pay side of things, and trying to give a perspective on how people who aren't sparks are seeing the strike. I can imagine though that an unemployed or graduate electrician would happily take current pay.

As I said in my OP, there are many valid points worth fighting for, it's just the pay side of it that many don't agree with in this climate - and that's pretty much clouding a lot of people's vision of what's going on.

[bobby benitez]

It think its more the fact that they wont be walked over more than the €40. They have been owed a pay rise since 2006 im sure and the contractors since then have been charging at that rate and pocketing the differences. Its money that is owed to them. I agree they should not be looking for the pay rise and are only doing so because the contractors are looking to take 10% off the 2006 rate thats 20% from the Union rate for 2009.

Just a out of curiosity what an Electrician makes in a week how does that effect someone on the dole or on the min wage? These people had the chance to get a trade. I myself am signing on at the moment.

My future brother in law is a sparks so I know exactly how much training he had to do and how shit his wages where for the 1st couple of years. I also know he lost his job last year and spent 6 months on the dole. So its people on the dole like him I was referring too, not some dole lifer who goes to shops in her pyjamas.

The minimum wage and low earners I was referring too are the people I have mentioned previously - I dont know the exact details but I am sure Cadbury have staff packing boxes or sweeping floors that dont get paid a great wage and now face the prospect of losing there job through no fault of their own.

I will repeat 1 final time, I have no problem with them looking to protect themselves but not at the cost of others and I still cant understand why now of all times?

[serpheus]

My future brother in law is a sparks so I know exactly how much training he had to do and how shit his wages where for the 1st couple of years. I also know he lost his job last year and spent 6 months on the dole. So its people on the dole like him I was referring too, not some dole lifer who goes to shops in her pyjamas.

The minimum wage and low earners I was referring too are the people I have mentioned previously - I dont know the exact details but I am sure Cadbury have staff packing boxes or sweeping floors that dont get paid a great wage and now face the prospect of losing there job through no fault of their own.

I will repeat 1 final time, I have no problem with them looking to protect themselves but not at the cost of others and I still cant understand why now of all times?
lol

[midg23]

Im An electrical Apprentice and in Second year, here's the story because we are coming across as the bad guys in this mess,

My wage is 9.33 ph which is €363.87 a week, before tax, where after tax and pension is about €320, im from Limerick and working in Dublin for a company based in Clonmel, we get travel Allowance for staying in Dublin,(national Agreed Rate) of €168.68(approx) a week.

Electricans out of their time 5 years are getting €21.49 ph. On April 1st 2008 that rate was supposed to go to €22.54 and 1st of April 09 up to €23.98.

This wage increase is based on what the top 16 companies in Ireland have RAKED in within the previous year, and Employers signed a legally binding contract every year to say yes to this pay rise, all was going well until the start of the recession when employers realised they could try pull the wool over peoples eyes by asking for a pay cut and not giving the agreed rise, EVEN THOUGH all the jobs are priced on the higher rate €23.98 the increase in funds made by the employers is not passed on.

And now they want us to take a 10% pay cut, accompanied with the 11% rise that they already are hollding back, they are effectively taking 21% of the wages for Qualified Sparks, 70% for 4th year and 40%for second year. and if they succeed in this they also, within the same agreement want to take the lodge/travel money from us, which to me is €330 - 40% leaves me with €200 approx, - €100 for place to stay while in Dublin and €50 for petrol up and down= €50 left to pay bills, rent loans food and i also have a child to take care of.

WOULD YOU TAKE A 21% PAY CUT???

The Employers want this cut but about 90% of Electricians and Apprentices would be happy with a pay freeze, going back to work and keeping our lodge/travel, and coming back in 12-18 months to try resolve this a differnet way BUT the employers are trying to screw us into the ground.

We All want to go back to work aswell because it is costing us money to stay out, BUT you have to realise this is a domino effect, if we lose our agreement, the next one to go is the plumbers rate and agreement and then they'll be on strike, then maybe the bricklayers, then the carpenters, all of whom will all go on Strike as well.

So WE ARE NOT THE BAD GUYS IN THIS MESS!

[fermoyred80]

Im An electrical Apprentice and in Second year, here's the story because we are coming across as the bad guys in this mess,

My wage is 9.33 ph which is €363.87 a week, before tax, where after tax and pension is about €320, im from Limerick and working in Dublin for a company based in Clonmel, we get travel Allowance for staying in Dublin,(national Agreed Rate) of €168.68(approx) a week.

Electricans out of their time 5 years are getting €21.49 ph. On April 1st 2008 that rate was supposed to go to €22.54 and 1st of April 09 up to €23.98.

This wage increase is based on what the top 16 companies in Ireland have RAKED in within the previous year, and Employers signed a legally binding contract every year to say yes to this pay rise, all was going well until the start of the recession when employers realised they could try pull the wool over peoples eyes by asking for a pay cut and not giving the agreed rise, EVEN THOUGH all the jobs are priced on the higher rate €23.98 the increase in funds made by the employers is not passed on.

And now they want us to take a 10% pay cut, accompanied with the 11% rise that they already are hollding back, they are effectively taking 21% of the wages for Qualified Sparks, 70% for 4th year and 40%for second year. and if they succeed in this they also, within the same agreement want to take the lodge/travel money from us, which to me is €330 - 40% leaves me with €200 approx, - €100 for place to stay while in Dublin and €50 for petrol up and down= €50 left to pay bills, rent loans food and i also have a child to take care of.

WOULD YOU TAKE A 21% PAY CUT???

The Employers want this cut but about 90% of Electricians and Apprentices would be happy with a pay freeze, going back to work and keeping our lodge/travel, and coming back in 12-18 months to try resolve this a differnet way BUT the employers are trying to screw us into the ground.

We All want to go back to work aswell because it is costing us money to stay out, BUT you have to realise this is a domino effect, if we lose our agreement, the next one to go is the plumbers rate and agreement and then they'll be on strike, then maybe the bricklayers, then the carpenters, all of whom will all go on Strike as well.

So WE ARE NOT THE BAD GUYS IN THIS MESS!

Your one of the lucky ones getting the lodge lad. The company I served my time with ( gone from them a few years now) are not paying any lodge and its a case of lucky to have a job and on top of that what they have done is layed fellas off and told them apply to a certain agency and they will take them back at a cheaper rate and the lads will then not be entitled to any holiday money etc whatsoever. The contractors are nothing but greedy f**kin pricks

[midg23]

Your one of the lucky ones getting the lodge lad. The company I served my time with ( gone from them a few years now) are not paying any lodge and its a case of lucky to have a job and on top of that what they have done is layed fellas off and told them apply to a certain agency and they will take them back at a cheaper rate and the lads will then not be entitled to any holiday money etc whatsoever. The contractors are nothing but greedy f**kin pricks

Thats my point dude, they even charged jobs on the higher rate but didnt pay it, pocketing the money me thinks, yet we are being painted as the bad guys

[psychoticjoe]

My brother is an electrician. I went to college.

He has a job at the moment for 2 months or so. Had been out of work from November last year until May.

If you compare the 4 years training on bad money with going to college, you'll see the cash if not so bad........since your comparing to nothing.

Now, when I left college my wages were pretty low while his were more or less €750 after tax....add to that all the overtime he got, it's not on in my opinion to go looking for more in these times.........People get paid too much in Ireland, that's why we are losing jobs.

I don't think €750 a week is too bad. As for the tools get a grip....well worth the investment...they don't cost that much.

Looks like they've got some raise but it's not on really considering a lot of electricians are out of work.

[Raven136]

imo a lot of employers are using this recession to ride workers.They are cutting hours yet no helping people get a proper 3 day week,killing overtime and using it generally as an excuse to get in work conditions that they would not have been able to a year or two ago.

No one wants to see strikes but also no one should stand back and allow an agreement that was doen two years ago then be discarded and then a pay decrease also.

I for one would rather see a qualified guy do my wiring than anybody else

[stalker]

I like how everyones answer to Non-Unionized workers being sacked or forced into paycuts is for the same to happen to Unionized workers...you realise what that means...there'll be no good ****ing jobs left in the country.

Sure at least we'll all be back to work when the country is finally competitive with Vietnam and Somalia for wages and conditions. Wont we be happy then?